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On December 06 2012 01:12 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 23:45 Sermokala wrote:
SV is now also the highest mr item in the game. Runic Bulwark has 30 MR and 30 more on the improved "Legion" (Aegis) aura. Also has more HP than SV. (also is a bit more expensive)
I was under the impression (told from someone on the PBE) that the holder does not get the Legion aura for their own Bulwark, only if an ally also has one. If not, then Bulwark is a must-buy, even moreso than Aegis was before.
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If anybody is wondering, I did some testing on how Liandry's works with Lux.
Illumination passive does not proc it.
Light Binding counts as a multi-target ability and has half duration (does double damage from the snare though so works out to be 5% damage)
Lucent Singularity doesn't count as slowing the target when Liandry's procs, so doesn't do the double damage and only does 2.5% from the half duration.
Final Spark does 2.5%, obvs.
All in all it seems somewhat underwhelming on her, compared to other champs. I wonder why Riot listed it as recommended.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 06 2012 01:22 Ketara wrote:
All in all it seems somewhat underwhelming on her, compared to other champs. I wonder why Riot listed it as recommended.
Well, recommended items have never been the most trustworthy source. I don't think that's going to change even in S3 when it's "better."
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On December 06 2012 01:22 Ketara wrote:
If anybody is wondering, I did some testing on how Liandry's works with Lux.
Illumination passive does not proc it.
Light Binding counts as a multi-target ability and has half duration (does double damage from the snare though so works out to be 5% damage)
Lucent Singularity doesn't count as slowing the target when Liandry's procs, so doesn't do the double damage and only does 2.5% from the half duration.
Final Spark does 2.5%, obvs.
All in all it seems somewhat underwhelming on her, compared to other champs. I wonder why Riot listed it as recommended.
Does the Liandry's proc over 3 sec stack? Or they just reapply?
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On December 05 2012 21:15 samthesaluki wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 20:28 Argoth. wrote:
Yeah, yesterday Chaox was toying around with a poke Ezreal build including Muramana. Dem Qs were pretty stronk. i dont see what item u would choose this over in a normal build though.
Filing this under wrong stuff TL says.
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It just reapplies, far as I can tell.
Liandry's seems to be much MUCH better on champs with very low CD abilities, or who naturally want to get Rylais as well. I want to try Liandry+Rylai on Zyra.
Maybe on Ziggs? Bouncing bomb spam?
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Played last night for first time in a while. This game is SOOOOOOO fun as support now!
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On December 06 2012 01:19 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 01:12 sylverfyre wrote:On December 05 2012 23:45 Sermokala wrote:
SV is now also the highest mr item in the game. Runic Bulwark has 30 MR and 30 more on the improved "Legion" (Aegis) aura. Also has more HP than SV. (also is a bit more expensive) I was under the impression (told from someone on the PBE) that the holder does not get the Legion aura for their own Bulwark, only if an ally also has one. If not, then Bulwark is a must-buy, even moreso than Aegis was before.
I thought it was always this way? If say, Taric buys an Aegis/BW and Chogath has an Aegis/BW they'll both get the aura, but the rest of the team will only get one of them?
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On December 06 2012 01:11 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 01:02 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 06 2012 00:44 LaNague wrote:
jungle amumu looks fine to me.
its a bit sad that they reduced jungle gold, but i think junglers with CC are fine. I was under the impression the gold equaled out due to the ambient gold increase, you just don't got more gold till after 11 minutes in. Although I guess in theory if there are less successful ganks you might have less gold overall? Fluctuates. Pure farming up to 11 minutes gives ~80 (iirc) more gold than old jungle. However, camping a lane is somewhat different now. If you go to gank and don't get a kill, the ambient gold is higher than it was before, so in a sense it's more advantageous to pressure than it was before. However, with HoG gone and since many jungles won't get Philo (regen nerfed, get regen from Spirit Stone), you don't have those ticking while you roam/camp, so it's somewhat less advantageous in that sense. And if your enemies realize how insane Sightstone is (very), you'll likely not get as many ganks off. Also, the removal of banking incentivizes clearing the mobs when they come up, I believe. So ganking/roaming depends a lot on ward situation, and in a lot of ways ganking/camping/roaming/whatever is a lot less effective and efficient than before. Someone can prove me wrong, and I'll be happy because Iove ganking as a jungler, but that seems to be the case as of right now.
I think camping lanes and heavy ganks will still be a big part of the game. If you're think about it in terms of gold, camping a lane will allow your laner to get a few waves of CS while zoning the enemy laner off of their own cs - that's a big gold swing, definitely more than wolves + wraiths are worth. The removal of banking and good gold/10 items for junglers does hurt, but as long as it's a net gain for the team I think it will still happen.
Sightstone might be a lot stronger than I think it is and make me completely wrong though. I just don't think every laner can afford the 700g investment for such paltry stats on their first or second back. 700g gives you 100 HP and 2 wards when you run back to lane - for 695g you could buy ruby crystal, 2 wards, and 2 hp pots. What's the point of infinite wards if you just get crushed 1v1? Of course, I can see certain top laners (Rengar l0l) not caring about the stats because they will win 1v1 anyway.
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On December 06 2012 01:22 Ketara wrote:
If anybody is wondering, I did some testing on how Liandry's works with Lux.
Illumination passive does not proc it.
Light Binding counts as a multi-target ability and has half duration (does double damage from the snare though so works out to be 5% damage)
Lucent Singularity doesn't count as slowing the target when Liandry's procs, so doesn't do the double damage and only does 2.5% from the half duration.
Final Spark does 2.5%, obvs.
All in all it seems somewhat underwhelming on her, compared to other champs. I wonder why Riot listed it as recommended.
It's still MPen (and she has pretty good bases) and damage. While Light Binding only does 5%, because it's such a long range poke, it actually is pretty useful in chipping down enemies I'd imagine.
But yeah, it's pretty underwhelming compared to some other champs. It's pretty good on Annie (Q w/ passive stun) and positively brutal on Vlad (Rylai + Q) and Elise (Stun + Q combo someone for 230 + 18% of their current health np). Swain's Lazerbird and Fiddle Fear/Drain combo only do 5%, but it's still pretty good. Especially since Swain has Torment to boost it.
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On December 06 2012 01:14 Ketara wrote:
Distortion boots are really really good if you're using Teleport+Flash as summoners.
They're only a 400 gold enchant and those + the 10% summoner cooldown mastery drop you to a 200 second teleport and 122 second flash.
The problem i see is that Furor with the +MS after doing damage is just plain better on almost every champion and for the others, Alacrity provides more utility.
Yeah, you can teleport somewhere more often but that's not of much use if that guy just runs away.
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Also, 2 questions if anyone has the answers.
1. Liandry's stacks with rylais crystal scepter if I'm rocking an AP soraka spamming starcall right?
2. Does Kayle count as a melee champion at all times for the pickpocket ability?
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On December 06 2012 01:30 Ketara wrote:
It just reapplies, far as I can tell.
Liandry's seems to be much MUCH better on champs with very low CD abilities, or who naturally want to get Rylais as well. I want to try Liandry+Rylai on Zyra.
Maybe on Ziggs? Bouncing bomb spam?
Tried it on zyra last night, his Q plants get the 5% benefit, her E plants get the 5% benefit + slow extra damage iirc.
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On December 06 2012 01:31 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 01:19 Requizen wrote:On December 06 2012 01:12 sylverfyre wrote:On December 05 2012 23:45 Sermokala wrote:
SV is now also the highest mr item in the game. Runic Bulwark has 30 MR and 30 more on the improved "Legion" (Aegis) aura. Also has more HP than SV. (also is a bit more expensive) I was under the impression (told from someone on the PBE) that the holder does not get the Legion aura for their own Bulwark, only if an ally also has one. If not, then Bulwark is a must-buy, even moreso than Aegis was before. I thought it was always this way? If say, Taric buys an Aegis/BW and Chogath has an Aegis/BW they'll both get the aura, but the rest of the team will only get one of them?
Both Taric and Cho'gath here will receive TWO Aegis auras. Everyone else gets 1 aura.
You get your own aura, and getting your own aura is seperate from the aura someone else gives you. The old Double WotA strategies were based on this phenomenon.
Liandry's seems like it'll be really nice on Rumble - Rumble already loves guise more than most, and harpoons (single target, slowing) will HURT. Also, even though the flamethrower is half duration, you will be refreshing the debuff throughout the flamethrower usage.
Swain also seems like he'd do well with it - laserbird (single target, slowing, not particualrly long CD) damage-amping Torment, and also a snare)
Do dot's keep the debuff refreshed, or is it only on the first tick?
My point is, it seems like Liandry's works very well with specific champions, but on a lot of champs, it's definitely overrated. Remember it's current and not max health, too - making it better for poke / harass / wearing someone down than for a crushing all-in.
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On December 06 2012 01:31 TheDougler wrote:
Played last night for first time in a while. This game is SOOOOOOO fun as support now!
Edit: Also, 2 questions if anyone has the answers.
1. Liandry's stacks with rylais crystal scepter if I'm rocking an AP soraka spamming starcall right?
2. Does Kayle count as a melee champion at all times for the pickpocket ability?
1. Liandry and Rylai have great synergy. Starcall only gets half effectiveness on Liandry, though, since it's AoE.
2. Kayle is considered ranged when E is active, so she only gets 3 for harassing with it.
On December 06 2012 01:30 Ketara wrote:
It just reapplies, far as I can tell.
Liandry's seems to be much MUCH better on champs with very low CD abilities, or who naturally want to get Rylais as well. I want to try Liandry+Rylai on Zyra.
Maybe on Ziggs? Bouncing bomb spam?
Yeah, it reapplies.
Zyra and Ziggs will only get half on their abilities, as far as I can tell. Unless Zyra's plants will proc single-target Liandry, but I don't think so.
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On December 06 2012 01:40 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 01:31 arb wrote:On December 06 2012 01:19 Requizen wrote:On December 06 2012 01:12 sylverfyre wrote:On December 05 2012 23:45 Sermokala wrote:
SV is now also the highest mr item in the game. Runic Bulwark has 30 MR and 30 more on the improved "Legion" (Aegis) aura. Also has more HP than SV. (also is a bit more expensive) I was under the impression (told from someone on the PBE) that the holder does not get the Legion aura for their own Bulwark, only if an ally also has one. If not, then Bulwark is a must-buy, even moreso than Aegis was before. I thought it was always this way? If say, Taric buys an Aegis/BW and Chogath has an Aegis/BW they'll both get the aura, but the rest of the team will only get one of them? Both Taric and Cho'gath here will receive TWO Aegis auras. Everyone else gets 1 aura. You get your own aura, and getting your own aura is seperate from the aura someone else gives you. The old Double WotA strategies were based on this phenomenon. Liandry's seems like it'll be really nice on Rumble - Rumble already loves guise more than most, and harpoons (single target, slowing) will HURT. Also, even though the flamethrower is half duration, you will be refreshing the debuff throughout the flamethrower usage. Swain also seems like he'd do well with it - laserbird (single target, slowing, not particualrly long CD) damage-amping Torment, and also a snare) Do dot's keep the debuff refreshed, or is it only on the first tick? My point is, it seems like Liandry's works very well with specific champions, but on a lot of champs, it's definitely overrated. Remember it's current and not max health, too - making it better for poke / harass / wearing someone down than for a crushing all-in.
Rumble is probably bullshit with it.
As I said above, Laserbird only gets half effectiveness. DoTs refresh the buff, but only at half, same as AoE. However, Torment works with it, so Swain will probably love it.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 06 2012 01:41 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 01:31 TheDougler wrote:
Played last night for first time in a while. This game is SOOOOOOO fun as support now!
Edit: Also, 2 questions if anyone has the answers.
1. Liandry's stacks with rylais crystal scepter if I'm rocking an AP soraka spamming starcall right?
2. Does Kayle count as a melee champion at all times for the pickpocket ability?
1. Liandry and Rylai have great synergy. Starcall only gets half effectiveness on Liandry, though, since it's AoE. 2. Kayle is considered ranged when E is active, so she only gets 3 for harassing with it. Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 01:30 Ketara wrote:
It just reapplies, far as I can tell.
Liandry's seems to be much MUCH better on champs with very low CD abilities, or who naturally want to get Rylais as well. I want to try Liandry+Rylai on Zyra.
Maybe on Ziggs? Bouncing bomb spam? Yeah, it reapplies. Zyra and Ziggs will only get half on their abilities, as far as I can tell. Unless Zyra's plants will proc single-target Liandry, but I don't think so.
Nah, Zyra's plants count as aoe, that's how they are calculated with spell vamp.
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Sure, Liandry and Rylai have synergy, but that seems like spending 6000 to get something only worth 3000 unless you're a champ that really relies on Rylai's anyway (there are actually not very many of these.) - and most champions who get Rylais don't get it until after some other core items. At this point, it more depends on strategy whether Liandry's is useful to you - if you're playing a more poke-heavy game, it's great. If you're going for all-out teamfights, it's not as useful - the DoT takes too long to contribute to an all-out AOE slugfest IMO.
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Zyra's plant proc rylai/spellvamp the way AoE effects do, so probably the same for Liandry. The simple fact that they proc it is already huge in itself, though. Especially if the debuff works the way Teemo or Naut's do (ie. first tick when damage is applied, then 1 tick per second), as a EWW combo would allow that first pick to be applied a lot.
On December 06 2012 01:35 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 01:22 Ketara wrote:
If anybody is wondering, I did some testing on how Liandry's works with Lux.
Illumination passive does not proc it.
Light Binding counts as a multi-target ability and has half duration (does double damage from the snare though so works out to be 5% damage)
Lucent Singularity doesn't count as slowing the target when Liandry's procs, so doesn't do the double damage and only does 2.5% from the half duration.
Final Spark does 2.5%, obvs.
All in all it seems somewhat underwhelming on her, compared to other champs. I wonder why Riot listed it as recommended. But yeah, it's pretty underwhelming compared to some other champs. It's pretty good on Annie (Q w/ passive stun) and positively brutal on Vlad (Rylai + Q) and Elise (Stun + Q combo someone for 230 + 18% of their current health np). Swain's Lazerbird and Fiddle Fear/Drain combo only do 5%, but it's still pretty good. Especially since Swain has Torment to boost it.
It depends on what they call "periodic effects" I guess. I mean "half-duration" means 1.5s, but Swain's Q deals damage every second iirc, so the fact that the duration is halved bears no meaning, except for the final tick that'll proc Liandry for half duration (and normal damage since the slow won't be applied irrc).
Uh... tl;dr: "half-duration" means "same damage per second" so a DoT doesn't get its damage nerfed since it'll reapply the effect anyway, except for the very last tick (but at this point you already did more damage than a nuke).
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EPT
