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On December 05 2012 23:45 LaNague wrote:
but all those items have barely more MR than a negatron cloak.
Most APs also tend to be less of a threat than ADs lategame, and against burst APs you can also stack health. Also, with Runic Bulwark, your whole team should always have a flat +30 MR, while it only gives +10 Armor.
I'll not argue against the fact that there is no FoN "super MR" equivalent, I think that's ok. You used to be able to just buy one and ignore most APs because it gave you so damn much (especially alongside runes and Merc's). Now if the AP is getting fed, you might need 2 MR items, and there are enough to choose from.
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i dont know, sustained damage aps look scary with the lament item.
we will see.
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On December 05 2012 23:48 jadoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 23:22 thenexusp wrote:On December 05 2012 23:03 jadoth wrote:On December 05 2012 22:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
does anyone else feel like the acceleration of bounty values for kills and deaths (Kill Streaks and Death Streaks now accelerate faster by roughly 50%.) is gonna create a lot more rubberbanding and also deincentivizes aggressive play?
i'll give an example. team A goes really aggressive with multiple eve lane ganks, top lane teleport ganks yadayada. score is around 4-0, gold is at 18k-16k (A-B). a 2k gold lead in such a situation in the past would result in less of a comeback in the gold gap as compared to now where you might even overtaken if you get a shutdown kill. basically the value of kills is lessened now (300 gold + 50% assist gold = 450gold, offset by the increase in bounty on your own head and reduction in bounty on opponent's head). killing is kinda like taking out a loan which you have to pay in the future whereas gold from other sources are legit, loan-free moolah. this concept applied in the past, and is even more important right now. maybe we'll see revive tele 1v2 lanes as an extreme case of the 'abuse' of this concept
this is kinda related to the concept of dragon vs turrets, where sac-ing dragon to take a turret is kinda punishing later on since you took the low-hanging fruit earlier and won't have it later (unless of course you use that turret advantage to do something)
TL;DR
gold from farming is better than gold from kills, gold gap derived from kills isn't 'fully paid for', will pay for it in future in event of shutdown Sometimes I feel like it would be better if kills just gave a flat 450g split over the team regardless of streaks. The way it is now you can run into scenario where you are incentivised not get any kills or assist or where the outcome is vastly different because you died a tenth a second after the enemy rather then a tenth a second before the enemy or where they come out ahead because the person assisting them landed a single auto and nothing else while the person assisting you zoned out his escape paths but never actually hit them. It just feels so wrong when things like that happen. I like the current system, if their ezreal is getting all the kills you can come back by focusing all your ccs on ezreal next fight rather than just be weaker than their entire team overall. It feels more natural for the killer to get the gold, and assisters to get some of it. Sometimes assists are silly (soraka ults across the map to get the assist) but at least the system is consistent and easy to figure out. Maybe doing something that secures the assist for you could be considered a useful skill to have? Also, if you ever run into the situation where you don't want to kill someone because they're worth less than the amount it increases your kill streak reward by, remember there's always mejai's and SotO that don't care about death-steraks when giving out rewards :D Ya I agree the current system leads to the more enjoyable game. While it can lead to some backwards incentives sometimes it is overall worth it, they just bother me theroycraft wise. also i was talking more about the situation where i am 0/7/0 and 5 lvls down so the best move is to just suicide push to distract them and give them bigger kill streaks for my team. I really suck top lane. Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 23:45 Sermokala wrote:
SV is now also the highest mr item in the game. What are the stats and cost of the new SV? It does not show up under the adjusted items on the LoL site so i assumed it didn't make this release.
http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Spirit_Visage
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Random question from someone from the SC2 side of this old forum * lurker face*
im a 1.5k elo support who is looking to into league more seriously, but im having issues identifying faults in my game play as support so i was thinking about switching to mid, were indicators of performance are far more immediate.
i was wondering if you guys could suggest what is looking good in this new season.
in addition, i was thinking about playing with this crazy Annie set up ( http://www.lolpro.com/guides/annie/329-annie-build-guide-mid-lane-by-damionwings ) as it seems to be really strong early, which wins games at my elo, but 13 thousand IP is a ton for someone who doesn't play huge amounts at the moment.
Thanks 
vern
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On December 05 2012 23:00 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 22:49 Tobberoth wrote:On December 05 2012 22:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
does anyone else feel like the acceleration of bounty values for kills and deaths (Kill Streaks and Death Streaks now accelerate faster by roughly 50%.) is gonna create a lot more rubberbanding and also deincentivizes aggressive play?
i'll give an example. team A goes really aggressive with multiple eve lane ganks, top lane teleport ganks yadayada. score is around 4-0, gold is at 18k-16k (A-B). a 2k gold lead in such a situation in the past would result in less of a comeback in the gold gap as compared to now where you might even overtaken if you get a shutdown kill. basically the value of kills is lessened now (300 gold + 50% assist gold = 450gold, offset by the increase in bounty on your own head and reduction in bounty on opponent's head). killing is kinda like taking out a loan which you have to pay in the future whereas gold from other sources are legit, loan-free moolah. this concept applied in the past, and is even more important right now. maybe we'll see revive tele 1v2 lanes as an extreme case of the 'abuse' of this concept
this is kinda related to the concept of dragon vs turrets, where sac-ing dragon to take a turret is kinda punishing later on since you took the low-hanging fruit earlier and won't have it later (unless of course you use that turret advantage to do something)
TL;DR
gold from farming is better than gold from kills, gold gap derived from kills isn't 'fully paid for', will pay for it in future in event of shutdown Gold from farming has always been better than gold from kills, assuming your opponents aren't feeding or doing dumb stuff. I think the whole idea is to stop teams made for early aggression to snowball and then be unbeatable. Comebacks should always be possible. The way you say it, it basically means teams made for early aggression are completely useless and only lategame champs/comps are viable. which isn't a good thing, imo. Also we should never forget that the gamedesign of MOBAs in general is based around snowballing. You won't be able to stop that.
Not at all. An early aggressive team is perfectly fine unless their streakers start dying. If they do, because of mistakes, they allow the other team to come back.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 05 2012 23:51 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 23:45 LaNague wrote:
but all those items have barely more MR than a negatron cloak. Most APs also tend to be less of a threat than ADs lategame, and against burst APs you can also stack health. Also, with Runic Bulwark, your whole team should always have a flat +30 MR, while it only gives +10 Armor. I'll not argue against the fact that there is no FoN "super MR" equivalent, I think that's ok. You used to be able to just buy one and ignore most APs because it gave you so damn much (especially alongside runes and Merc's). Now if the AP is getting fed, you might need 2 MR items, and there are enough to choose from.
And to follow up on this, just looking over the item store, all of the MR items are useful in some other way, so building two wouldn't be amiss even if you WERE just looking for MR. Twin Shadows, Mikhael's Crucible, Mercurial Scimitar... all those are useful in their own right (I think), to say nothing of old standbys like Wit's or Aegis (and upgrade) or SV.
On December 05 2012 23:53 LaNague wrote:
i dont know, sustained damage aps look scary with the lament item.
we will see.
They are. There's probably a nerf in store for Lament. It seems WAY too good.
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On December 05 2012 22:51 WhiteDog wrote:
Locodoco left CLG ?
Troll team will continue trolling.
Well, I think it has become pretty obvious that Loco doesn't feel comfortable with the support role. He played a pretty shitty support the big tournaments after he joined CLG. Not only because he was new to the role but also because he didn't have the mindset for it imo. He was even saying on stream that if he had the choice he would prefer AD or solo lane by far.
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I just tried to jungle as lee, that went very badly. I don't like the new jungle changes. I liked the meta where junglers were really feared and could keep up at least close in level to the other memebers, now they lag behind even more. I really think that is the wrong direction.
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On December 05 2012 23:29 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 23:25 AsnSensation wrote:what is BotRK? so many new items  Blade of the Ruined King. It's sorta like new Madred's, only it builds out of vamp scepter and gives lifesteal. And vamp scepter gives AD now, so it's perfectly viable to rush vamp in lane.
I'm gonna have to start calling it bork now
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Hmm do you guys think that mercurial scepter is cost effective on ranged ADC even though the movement speed doesn't work for them? S2 I copied Doublelift's build with qss because vayne is so susceptible to cc, but now I'm not so sure. Also, zephyr seems like it is pretty weak for late game, despite the tenacity any thoughts to the contrary?
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On December 06 2012 00:16 Rkuro wrote:
Hmm do you guys think that mercurial scepter is cost effective on ranged ADC even though the movement speed doesn't work for them? S2 I copied Doublelift's build with qss because vayne is so susceptible to cc, but now I'm not so sure. Also, zephyr seems like it is pretty weak for late game, despite the tenacity any thoughts to the contrary?
Mercurial is perfectly good on ADCs. QSS was always a good item for heavy AP/CC teams, now you can just get damage with it. It'd be nice to have the MS, but you likely have a blink/dash (unless you're Ashe or Varus or Urgot), and possibly a Zeal of some sort.
Zephyr seems decent as a mid/late item if you want AS/CDR but don't want the AP from Nashor's. I mean obviously it's probably not slot-efficient as an end-game 6 item build, but if you like Stinger early game, it looks good as an upgrade.
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On December 06 2012 00:06 docvoc wrote:
I just tried to jungle as lee, that went very badly. I don't like the new jungle changes. I liked the meta where junglers were really feared and could keep up at least close in level to the other memebers, now they lag behind even more. I really think that is the wrong direction.
As a jungle main I'm so scared to start playing because I don't want my entire role to be kiboshed.
Sure, I can play a bunch of champs so Lee specifically being hit doesn't suck too much, besides him being my favorite champ to play. WHAT HAPPENED TO NO ANTI-FUN RIOT???
inb4 level 2 ganks at top are anti-fun
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Man, all these new items makes me so confused!
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jungle amumu looks fine to me.
its a bit sad that they reduced jungle gold, but i think junglers with CC are fine.
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Has anybody found a good time to enchant their boots? The only time I've worked out is on people that get hurricane to do it right after to make up for no MS.
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I ended up forgetting about it, and then upgrading to Homeguard when we got shoved back into our base. I found it cool, but kind of underwhelming. Like, it's nice if you back, and then run and they're standing right at your turret, but the movespeed boost only goes to about your inhib, so without Tele you can't really use it to get anywhere important unless you're being sieged. Well, sure it cuts ~5 seconds off your run time, but that's not really enough to save an outer tower, deny an invade, or contest dragon/baron.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 06 2012 00:44 LaNague wrote:
jungle amumu looks fine to me.
its a bit sad that they reduced jungle gold, but i think junglers with CC are fine.
I was under the impression the gold equaled out due to the ambient gold increase, you just don't got more gold till after 11 minutes in. Although I guess in theory if there are less successful ganks you might have less gold overall?
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On December 06 2012 01:02 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 00:44 LaNague wrote:
jungle amumu looks fine to me.
its a bit sad that they reduced jungle gold, but i think junglers with CC are fine. I was under the impression the gold equaled out due to the ambient gold increase, you just don't got more gold till after 11 minutes in. Although I guess in theory if there are less successful ganks you might have less gold overall?
Fluctuates. Pure farming up to 11 minutes gives ~80 (iirc) more gold than old jungle.
However, camping a lane is somewhat different now. If you go to gank and don't get a kill, the ambient gold is higher than it was before, so in a sense it's more advantageous to pressure than it was before. However, with HoG gone and since many jungles won't get Philo (regen nerfed, get regen from Spirit Stone), you don't have those ticking while you roam/camp, so it's somewhat less advantageous in that sense. And if your enemies realize how insane Sightstone is (very), you'll likely not get as many ganks off.
Also, the removal of banking incentivizes clearing the mobs when they come up, I believe.
So ganking/roaming depends a lot on ward situation, and in a lot of ways ganking/camping/roaming/whatever is a lot less effective and efficient than before. Someone can prove me wrong, and I'll be happy because Iove ganking as a jungler, but that seems to be the case as of right now.
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On December 05 2012 23:45 Sermokala wrote:
SV is now also the highest mr item in the game.
Runic Bulwark has 30 MR and 30 more on the improved "Legion" (Aegis) aura.
Also has more HP than SV.
(also is a bit more expensive)
@ "doesnt have much more MR than a negatron" - remember that ALL "free stats from upgrading the item" have been reduced. You no longer get tons of free ANYTHING just by combining parts. So of course Negatron will have only a bit less MR - should make you feel less bad about sitting on it and not rushing to combine it.
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Distortion boots are really really good if you're using Teleport+Flash as summoners.
They're only a 400 gold enchant and those + the 10% summoner cooldown mastery drop you to a 200 second teleport and 122 second flash.
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EPT
