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On December 05 2012 22:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
does anyone else feel like the acceleration of bounty values for kills and deaths (Kill Streaks and Death Streaks now accelerate faster by roughly 50%.) is gonna create a lot more rubberbanding and also deincentivizes aggressive play?
i'll give an example. team A goes really aggressive with multiple eve lane ganks, top lane teleport ganks yadayada. score is around 4-0, gold is at 18k-16k (A-B). a 2k gold lead in such a situation in the past would result in less of a comeback in the gold gap as compared to now where you might even overtaken if you get a shutdown kill. basically the value of kills is lessened now (300 gold + 50% assist gold = 450gold, offset by the increase in bounty on your own head and reduction in bounty on opponent's head). killing is kinda like taking out a loan which you have to pay in the future whereas gold from other sources are legit, loan-free moolah. this concept applied in the past, and is even more important right now. maybe we'll see revive tele 1v2 lanes as an extreme case of the 'abuse' of this concept
this is kinda related to the concept of dragon vs turrets, where sac-ing dragon to take a turret is kinda punishing later on since you took the low-hanging fruit earlier and won't have it later (unless of course you use that turret advantage to do something)
TL;DR
gold from farming is better than gold from kills, gold gap derived from kills isn't 'fully paid for', will pay for it in future in event of shutdown
Gold from farming has always been better than gold from kills, assuming your opponents aren't feeding or doing dumb stuff. I think the whole idea is to stop teams made for early aggression to snowball and then be unbeatable. Comebacks should always be possible.
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Locodoco left CLG ?
Troll team will continue trolling.
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On December 05 2012 22:49 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 22:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
does anyone else feel like the acceleration of bounty values for kills and deaths (Kill Streaks and Death Streaks now accelerate faster by roughly 50%.) is gonna create a lot more rubberbanding and also deincentivizes aggressive play?
i'll give an example. team A goes really aggressive with multiple eve lane ganks, top lane teleport ganks yadayada. score is around 4-0, gold is at 18k-16k (A-B). a 2k gold lead in such a situation in the past would result in less of a comeback in the gold gap as compared to now where you might even overtaken if you get a shutdown kill. basically the value of kills is lessened now (300 gold + 50% assist gold = 450gold, offset by the increase in bounty on your own head and reduction in bounty on opponent's head). killing is kinda like taking out a loan which you have to pay in the future whereas gold from other sources are legit, loan-free moolah. this concept applied in the past, and is even more important right now. maybe we'll see revive tele 1v2 lanes as an extreme case of the 'abuse' of this concept
this is kinda related to the concept of dragon vs turrets, where sac-ing dragon to take a turret is kinda punishing later on since you took the low-hanging fruit earlier and won't have it later (unless of course you use that turret advantage to do something)
TL;DR
gold from farming is better than gold from kills, gold gap derived from kills isn't 'fully paid for', will pay for it in future in event of shutdown Gold from farming has always been better than gold from kills, assuming your opponents aren't feeding or doing dumb stuff. I think the whole idea is to stop teams made for early aggression to snowball and then be unbeatable. Comebacks should always be possible.
The way you say it, it basically means teams made for early aggression are completely useless and only lategame champs/comps are viable. which isn't a good thing, imo.
Also we should never forget that the gamedesign of MOBAs in general is based around snowballing. You won't be able to stop that.
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On December 05 2012 22:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
does anyone else feel like the acceleration of bounty values for kills and deaths (Kill Streaks and Death Streaks now accelerate faster by roughly 50%.) is gonna create a lot more rubberbanding and also deincentivizes aggressive play?
i'll give an example. team A goes really aggressive with multiple eve lane ganks, top lane teleport ganks yadayada. score is around 4-0, gold is at 18k-16k (A-B). a 2k gold lead in such a situation in the past would result in less of a comeback in the gold gap as compared to now where you might even overtaken if you get a shutdown kill. basically the value of kills is lessened now (300 gold + 50% assist gold = 450gold, offset by the increase in bounty on your own head and reduction in bounty on opponent's head). killing is kinda like taking out a loan which you have to pay in the future whereas gold from other sources are legit, loan-free moolah. this concept applied in the past, and is even more important right now. maybe we'll see revive tele 1v2 lanes as an extreme case of the 'abuse' of this concept
this is kinda related to the concept of dragon vs turrets, where sac-ing dragon to take a turret is kinda punishing later on since you took the low-hanging fruit earlier and won't have it later (unless of course you use that turret advantage to do something)
TL;DR
gold from farming is better than gold from kills, gold gap derived from kills isn't 'fully paid for', will pay for it in future in event of shutdown
Sometimes I feel like it would be better if kills just gave a flat 450g split over the team regardless of streaks. The way it is now you can run into scenario where you are incentivised not get any kills or assist or where the outcome is vastly different because you died a tenth a second after the enemy rather then a tenth a second before the enemy or where they come out ahead because the person assisting them landed a single auto and nothing else while the person assisting you zoned out his escape paths but never actually hit them. It just feels so wrong when things like that happen.
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On December 05 2012 16:39 sung_moon wrote:
Man how you guys building on the non-Wriggles based supporty junglers (Mao/Ali/Naut). If I'm running a jungler who gets Wriggles, starting Machete+5 pots is good, but boots+3 pots seems a lot harder to jungle as I used to before. Ugh maybe that's just me being bad in a harder jungle.
And not sure what to get in place of HoG yet on these guys yet.
Ive been going Machete 5 pots -> philo -> the machete health regen item. then straight into aegis personally. feel kinda lost without HoG personally
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On December 05 2012 06:53 Irave wrote:
So BotRK+one of the mid lvl jungle items basically allows you to solo baron. Success with Warwick and Xin. Morale of the story, build BotRK and win games.
I opened Long Sword + pots on ADC to get BotRK+PD, was satisfied with the results. Could have gone Hurricane I guess, but both times I was playing an ADC with built in AS steroid (Graves/Trist). Also played BotRK on Toplane Raidboss Teemo (BotRK/Hurricane/FM). It's a really good item.
Also, TF/Hydra Shyvana top lane was immensely awesome. I can easily see playing her much more often with dat cleavebouncing, RAWR I'M A DRAGON
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United States15536 Posts
On December 05 2012 23:09 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 16:39 sung_moon wrote:
Man how you guys building on the non-Wriggles based supporty junglers (Mao/Ali/Naut). If I'm running a jungler who gets Wriggles, starting Machete+5 pots is good, but boots+3 pots seems a lot harder to jungle as I used to before. Ugh maybe that's just me being bad in a harder jungle.
And not sure what to get in place of HoG yet on these guys yet. Ive been going Machete 5 pots -> philo -> the machete health regen item. then straight into aegis personally. feel kinda lost without HoG personally
I've tried Mach-5 (lol... totally calling it that from now on) -> Spiritstone/Boots -> Kage's -> Mobo -> Shard of True Ice -> Spirit of the Ancient Golem -> whatever [Iceborn] for Maokai
Don't think/know if it's optimal or anything, but it seems to do well enough. I can see how Twin Shadows could replace Shard or just going with Aegis to Bulwark. Also picking up a Sightstone would probably be smart too.
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On December 05 2012 23:03 jadoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 22:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
does anyone else feel like the acceleration of bounty values for kills and deaths (Kill Streaks and Death Streaks now accelerate faster by roughly 50%.) is gonna create a lot more rubberbanding and also deincentivizes aggressive play?
i'll give an example. team A goes really aggressive with multiple eve lane ganks, top lane teleport ganks yadayada. score is around 4-0, gold is at 18k-16k (A-B). a 2k gold lead in such a situation in the past would result in less of a comeback in the gold gap as compared to now where you might even overtaken if you get a shutdown kill. basically the value of kills is lessened now (300 gold + 50% assist gold = 450gold, offset by the increase in bounty on your own head and reduction in bounty on opponent's head). killing is kinda like taking out a loan which you have to pay in the future whereas gold from other sources are legit, loan-free moolah. this concept applied in the past, and is even more important right now. maybe we'll see revive tele 1v2 lanes as an extreme case of the 'abuse' of this concept
this is kinda related to the concept of dragon vs turrets, where sac-ing dragon to take a turret is kinda punishing later on since you took the low-hanging fruit earlier and won't have it later (unless of course you use that turret advantage to do something)
TL;DR
gold from farming is better than gold from kills, gold gap derived from kills isn't 'fully paid for', will pay for it in future in event of shutdown Sometimes I feel like it would be better if kills just gave a flat 450g split over the team regardless of streaks. The way it is now you can run into scenario where you are incentivised not get any kills or assist or where the outcome is vastly different because you died a tenth a second after the enemy rather then a tenth a second before the enemy or where they come out ahead because the person assisting them landed a single auto and nothing else while the person assisting you zoned out his escape paths but never actually hit them. It just feels so wrong when things like that happen.
I like the current system, if their ezreal is getting all the kills you can come back by focusing all your ccs on ezreal next fight rather than just be weaker than their entire team overall. It feels more natural for the killer to get the gold, and assisters to get some of it. Sometimes assists are silly (soraka ults across the map to get the assist) but at least the system is consistent and easy to figure out. Maybe doing something that secures the assist for you could be considered a useful skill to have?
Also, if you ever run into the situation where you don't want to kill someone because they're worth less than the amount it increases your kill streak reward by, remember there's always mejai's and SotO that don't care about death-steraks when giving out rewards :D
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what is BotRK?
so many new items 
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On December 05 2012 23:25 AsnSensation wrote:what is BotRK? so many new items
Blade of the Ruined King. It's sorta like new Madred's, only it builds out of vamp scepter and gives lifesteal. And vamp scepter gives AD now, so it's perfectly viable to rush vamp in lane.
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There was that discussion about closing the client while in game to use up less memory space, I tried it and the client didn't open back up after the game finished (I was spectating). Is it normal? It'd be a bit annoying to have to launch the game from scratch again after each game, without being able to add people or look at the stats.
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so what do i build now when the enemy stacks magic damage.
they just deleted force of nature and didnt add another high MR item
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On December 05 2012 23:33 LaNague wrote:so what do i build now when the enemy stacks magic damage. they just deleted force of nature and didnt add another high MR item
banshee's veil got buffed to 25sec cd that could be an option
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On December 05 2012 23:33 LaNague wrote:so what do i build now when the enemy stacks magic damage. they just deleted force of nature and didnt add another high MR item
Uh, there's a whole bunch new MR items 
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either qss or hope someone on your team gets bulwark. negatron build ups suck dick now.
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On December 05 2012 23:33 LaNague wrote:so what do i build now when the enemy stacks magic damage. they just deleted force of nature and didnt add another high MR item
Spirit Visage is the new top MR item. ADs can look at Mercurial Scimitar (45 MR and Cleanse) or Maw (36 MR and AD for missing life). Abyssal and Athenes are probably the best for APs depending on how you value flat AP, mana regen, and CDR. Tanks have Runic Buwark (Aegis + NMM) and SV, maybe Wit's. Supports can go Crucible or Bulwark.
Plenty of options now, not just FoN or Abyssal every game.
On December 05 2012 23:42 greggy wrote:
either qss or hope someone on your team gets bulwark. negatron build ups suck dick now.
Spirit Visage is fucking amazing and now out of Negatron. It's the same as old SV, but with more MR for a slightly higher price.
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but all those items have barely more MR than a negatron cloak.
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SV is now also the highest mr item in the game.
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On December 05 2012 23:22 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 23:03 jadoth wrote:On December 05 2012 22:41 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
does anyone else feel like the acceleration of bounty values for kills and deaths (Kill Streaks and Death Streaks now accelerate faster by roughly 50%.) is gonna create a lot more rubberbanding and also deincentivizes aggressive play?
i'll give an example. team A goes really aggressive with multiple eve lane ganks, top lane teleport ganks yadayada. score is around 4-0, gold is at 18k-16k (A-B). a 2k gold lead in such a situation in the past would result in less of a comeback in the gold gap as compared to now where you might even overtaken if you get a shutdown kill. basically the value of kills is lessened now (300 gold + 50% assist gold = 450gold, offset by the increase in bounty on your own head and reduction in bounty on opponent's head). killing is kinda like taking out a loan which you have to pay in the future whereas gold from other sources are legit, loan-free moolah. this concept applied in the past, and is even more important right now. maybe we'll see revive tele 1v2 lanes as an extreme case of the 'abuse' of this concept
this is kinda related to the concept of dragon vs turrets, where sac-ing dragon to take a turret is kinda punishing later on since you took the low-hanging fruit earlier and won't have it later (unless of course you use that turret advantage to do something)
TL;DR
gold from farming is better than gold from kills, gold gap derived from kills isn't 'fully paid for', will pay for it in future in event of shutdown Sometimes I feel like it would be better if kills just gave a flat 450g split over the team regardless of streaks. The way it is now you can run into scenario where you are incentivised not get any kills or assist or where the outcome is vastly different because you died a tenth a second after the enemy rather then a tenth a second before the enemy or where they come out ahead because the person assisting them landed a single auto and nothing else while the person assisting you zoned out his escape paths but never actually hit them. It just feels so wrong when things like that happen. I like the current system, if their ezreal is getting all the kills you can come back by focusing all your ccs on ezreal next fight rather than just be weaker than their entire team overall. It feels more natural for the killer to get the gold, and assisters to get some of it. Sometimes assists are silly (soraka ults across the map to get the assist) but at least the system is consistent and easy to figure out. Maybe doing something that secures the assist for you could be considered a useful skill to have? Also, if you ever run into the situation where you don't want to kill someone because they're worth less than the amount it increases your kill streak reward by, remember there's always mejai's and SotO that don't care about death-steraks when giving out rewards :D
Ya I agree the current system leads to the more enjoyable game. While it can lead to some backwards incentives sometimes it is overall worth it, they just bother me theroycraft wise. also i was talking more about the situation where i am 0/7/0 and 5 lvls down so the best move is to just suicide push to distract them and give them bigger kill streaks for my team. I really suck top lane.
On December 05 2012 23:45 Sermokala wrote:
SV is now also the highest mr item in the game.
What are the stats and cost of the new SV? It does not show up under the adjusted items on the LoL site so i assumed it didn't make this release.
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EPT
