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On December 04 2012 15:55 Pinith wrote:The forum link has much better formatting. I'm worried about the 'increased' jungle rewards. They boosted giant wolf base gold from 40 to 44, big golem base gold from 40 to 45; and lowered the gold on every other minor camp. This is really small, especially factoring in the removal of the banking system. The increases in gold/minute seem decent, but still not that big. Every 10 minutes, the big wolf rewards ~2 more gold and the big golem rewards ~4 more gold. Maybe with the change to lane minion gold it will even out, but so far I think the jungler will still end up just above the support in earned gold.
The Wolves camp gained 2 gold overall, and the Golems gained 5. However, the Wraiths lost 11g, so all in all you're actually down 4g at the start compared to before. That's made up for by the passive gp10 boost somewhat.
Still, you're not really looking at huge revenues as a jungler. Even with the increased scaling and base gp10, you're only looking at roughly a ~140g difference* after chain farming for 10 straight minutes (which is essentially impossible). In addition, banking is gone, so unless your ganks are successful and/or you lane tax heavily it's going to hurt a lot more to gank.
*Rough Equation: 10g * time + 0.878g * (time * (time - 1) / 2) = gold difference between S2 and S3 jungle
Time = minutes spent jungling starting from 1:40
On December 04 2012 16:05 seRapH wrote:machete seems useless on nunu  oh well, he's annoying enough already
He's one of the few junglers who can start Boots safely anyway.
However, he quickly runs into damage problems in the jungle. Consume isn't enough when the Giant Wolf starts with as much health as Rank 5 Consume can handle, and only scales from there. You're going to need some sort of strategy for dealing with this, because otherwise you end up spending a lot of time clearing.
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On December 04 2012 16:10 Implenia wrote:
Did they really implement the bottle from dota? Might reinstall to see whats new but not sure if I want to grind again to unluck the latest heroes >_>
Most of the latest champions suck 
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On December 04 2012 16:19 Vanka wrote:From chauster ama: + Show Spoiler +Instead of trusting old names to grow their potential(i.e. loco's upport), do you think there are publicly unknown players who could be better? If yes, would you be willing to hold auditions or some other way to recruit them into the team?
-yes. while googling for my own name i came across someones opinion in teamliquid (iirc) which said that NAs #1 problem is that they recycle old talent instead of looking for new talent. this goes with my same ideology that players have talent and that this talent is already apparent within their first year of play (but its unable to change). i was always a good player and i will always be a good player, old players who i never deemed great (xpecial, elementz, locodoco for example) never became great and never will be with my mentality (since i dont believe players improve). thats why you have smart players that are new like link115 who have already surpassed the old greats simply because their talent is apparent and its just because they are smart. if people were really improving the koreans would easily be better than me individually, but they arent I remember the post, but don't remember who it was.
It was already pointed out that people have mentioned this numerous times but add in the fact that he isn't positive TL was the site he read it on and the fact that Googling his name doesn't bring up any TL pages for the first like ~10 pages and Googling Chauster+TeamLiquid brings up nothing with any amount of relevance to that conversation...
It could've been anyone. And honestly, as long as the old talent is pretty good I don't think recycling old talent is necessarily a bad thing. It's a lot less risky to bring someone on your team that you know is good in the competitive scene than to bring someone who's a solo queue super star and hope that they have what it takes to make it in the competitive scene. Look at CLG.Black, Link115 was probably the only person good enough to cut it in the pro scene. Gosu Zuna is on FeaR, maybe he's good enough to cut it too?
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On December 04 2012 16:16 Craton wrote:Someone figure out all the OP shit by tomorrow night so I can abuse it. + Show Spoiler +we all know servers are going to be down for a week
Sword of the Divine on Vayne/Twitch. Muramana on Ryze/Cass/Teemo. Shard of True Ice on any support, so long as your team has someone who dives into the enemy team. DFG for any double AP abduction comp. Aegis/Runic Bulwark (always). Xerath + Full MPen Runes + Sorcs + Guise + Void Staff. Black Cleaver on Wukong/Pantheon. Penetration runes on everyone really.
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On December 04 2012 16:30 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 15:55 Pinith wrote:The forum link has much better formatting. I'm worried about the 'increased' jungle rewards. They boosted giant wolf base gold from 40 to 44, big golem base gold from 40 to 45; and lowered the gold on every other minor camp. This is really small, especially factoring in the removal of the banking system. The increases in gold/minute seem decent, but still not that big. Every 10 minutes, the big wolf rewards ~2 more gold and the big golem rewards ~4 more gold. Maybe with the change to lane minion gold it will even out, but so far I think the jungler will still end up just above the support in earned gold. The Wolves camp gained 2 gold overall, and the Golems gained 5. However, the Wraiths lost 11g, so all in all you're actually down 4g at the start compared to before. That's made up for by the passive gp10 boost somewhat. Still, you're not really looking at huge revenues as a jungler. Even with the increased scaling and base gp10, you're only looking at roughly a ~140g difference* after chain farming for 10 straight minutes (which is essentially impossible). In addition, banking is gone, so unless your ganks are successful and/or you lane tax heavily it's going to hurt a lot more to gank. *Rough Equation: 10g * time + 0.878g * (time * (time - 1) / 2) = gold difference between S2 and S3 jungle
Time = minutes spent jungling starting from 1:40Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 16:05 seRapH wrote:machete seems useless on nunu oh well, he's annoying enough already He's one of the few junglers who can start Boots safely anyway. However, he quickly runs into damage problems in the jungle. Consume isn't enough when the Giant Wolf starts with as much health as Rank 5 Consume can handle, and only scales from there. You're going to need some sort of strategy for dealing with this, because otherwise you end up spending a lot of time clearing.
Except he can buy like 4 wards and counter jungle the fuck out of everyone.
Mundo is still probably going to be top tier jungle. Skarner's jungle got buffed thanks to the machete as did Nocturne's.
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On December 04 2012 16:47 NEOtheONE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 16:30 Seuss wrote:On December 04 2012 15:55 Pinith wrote:The forum link has much better formatting. I'm worried about the 'increased' jungle rewards. They boosted giant wolf base gold from 40 to 44, big golem base gold from 40 to 45; and lowered the gold on every other minor camp. This is really small, especially factoring in the removal of the banking system. The increases in gold/minute seem decent, but still not that big. Every 10 minutes, the big wolf rewards ~2 more gold and the big golem rewards ~4 more gold. Maybe with the change to lane minion gold it will even out, but so far I think the jungler will still end up just above the support in earned gold. The Wolves camp gained 2 gold overall, and the Golems gained 5. However, the Wraiths lost 11g, so all in all you're actually down 4g at the start compared to before. That's made up for by the passive gp10 boost somewhat. Still, you're not really looking at huge revenues as a jungler. Even with the increased scaling and base gp10, you're only looking at roughly a ~140g difference* after chain farming for 10 straight minutes (which is essentially impossible). In addition, banking is gone, so unless your ganks are successful and/or you lane tax heavily it's going to hurt a lot more to gank. *Rough Equation: 10g * time + 0.878g * (time * (time - 1) / 2) = gold difference between S2 and S3 jungle
Time = minutes spent jungling starting from 1:40On December 04 2012 16:05 seRapH wrote:machete seems useless on nunu oh well, he's annoying enough already He's one of the few junglers who can start Boots safely anyway. However, he quickly runs into damage problems in the jungle. Consume isn't enough when the Giant Wolf starts with as much health as Rank 5 Consume can handle, and only scales from there. You're going to need some sort of strategy for dealing with this, because otherwise you end up spending a lot of time clearing. Except he can buy like 4 wards and counter jungle the fuck out of everyone. Mundo is still probably going to be top tier jungle. Skarner's jungle got buffed thanks to the machete as did Nocturne's. Also, Sword of the Divine didn't make the list for the patch. Refer to item page of the Preseason page. http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/preseason/items
That would be filed under "some sort of strategy".
Sword of the Divine is listed in the patch notes under New Items, in addition to being in the preseason page under Adjusted Items. It's inconsistent, but it's there in both cases.
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sword of the divine shows up under more in the adjusted items section, are u sure its not in the new patch tommarow? its one of items im most excited for.. lol
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On December 04 2012 16:53 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 16:47 NEOtheONE wrote:On December 04 2012 16:30 Seuss wrote:On December 04 2012 15:55 Pinith wrote:The forum link has much better formatting. I'm worried about the 'increased' jungle rewards. They boosted giant wolf base gold from 40 to 44, big golem base gold from 40 to 45; and lowered the gold on every other minor camp. This is really small, especially factoring in the removal of the banking system. The increases in gold/minute seem decent, but still not that big. Every 10 minutes, the big wolf rewards ~2 more gold and the big golem rewards ~4 more gold. Maybe with the change to lane minion gold it will even out, but so far I think the jungler will still end up just above the support in earned gold. The Wolves camp gained 2 gold overall, and the Golems gained 5. However, the Wraiths lost 11g, so all in all you're actually down 4g at the start compared to before. That's made up for by the passive gp10 boost somewhat. Still, you're not really looking at huge revenues as a jungler. Even with the increased scaling and base gp10, you're only looking at roughly a ~140g difference* after chain farming for 10 straight minutes (which is essentially impossible). In addition, banking is gone, so unless your ganks are successful and/or you lane tax heavily it's going to hurt a lot more to gank. *Rough Equation: 10g * time + 0.878g * (time * (time - 1) / 2) = gold difference between S2 and S3 jungle
Time = minutes spent jungling starting from 1:40On December 04 2012 16:05 seRapH wrote:machete seems useless on nunu oh well, he's annoying enough already He's one of the few junglers who can start Boots safely anyway. However, he quickly runs into damage problems in the jungle. Consume isn't enough when the Giant Wolf starts with as much health as Rank 5 Consume can handle, and only scales from there. You're going to need some sort of strategy for dealing with this, because otherwise you end up spending a lot of time clearing. Except he can buy like 4 wards and counter jungle the fuck out of everyone. Mundo is still probably going to be top tier jungle. Skarner's jungle got buffed thanks to the machete as did Nocturne's. Also, Sword of the Divine didn't make the list for the patch. Refer to item page of the Preseason page. http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/preseason/items That would be filed under "some sort of strategy". Sword of the Divine is listed in the patch notes under New Items, in addition to being in the preseason page under Adjusted Items. It's inconsistent, but it's there in both cases.
On December 04 2012 16:55 Sid(TB) wrote:sword of the divine shows up under more in the adjusted items section, are u sure its not in the new patch tommarow? its one of items im most excited for.. lol
Ah, okay my bad. I was getting confused with the fact that Spirit Visage changes have yet to go through. Totally spaced for a bit.
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On December 04 2012 16:37 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 16:19 Vanka wrote:From chauster ama: + Show Spoiler +Instead of trusting old names to grow their potential(i.e. loco's upport), do you think there are publicly unknown players who could be better? If yes, would you be willing to hold auditions or some other way to recruit them into the team?
-yes. while googling for my own name i came across someones opinion in teamliquid (iirc) which said that NAs #1 problem is that they recycle old talent instead of looking for new talent. this goes with my same ideology that players have talent and that this talent is already apparent within their first year of play (but its unable to change). i was always a good player and i will always be a good player, old players who i never deemed great (xpecial, elementz, locodoco for example) never became great and never will be with my mentality (since i dont believe players improve). thats why you have smart players that are new like link115 who have already surpassed the old greats simply because their talent is apparent and its just because they are smart. if people were really improving the koreans would easily be better than me individually, but they arent I remember the post, but don't remember who it was. It was already pointed out that people have mentioned this numerous times but add in the fact that he isn't positive TL was the site he read it on and the fact that Googling his name doesn't bring up any TL pages for the first like ~10 pages and Googling Chauster+TeamLiquid brings up nothing with any amount of relevance to that conversation... It could've been anyone. And honestly, as long as the old talent is pretty good I don't think recycling old talent is necessarily a bad thing. It's a lot less risky to bring someone on your team that you know is good in the competitive scene than to bring someone who's a solo queue super star and hope that they have what it takes to make it in the competitive scene. Look at CLG.Black, Link115 was probably the only person good enough to cut it in the pro scene. Gosu Zuna is on FeaR, maybe he's good enough to cut it too?
I understand where Chauster is coming from, though there are players who have proven that they can become great with practice. Pobelter and Lightsludge come to mind.
Though I find it funny he straight out calls Loco "not great" in that post l0l. Gotta love the Chauster bluntness.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2012 16:47 NEOtheONE wrote:
Except he can buy like 4 wards and counter jungle the fuck out of everyone.
The thing is, if Consume doesn't insta-kill the big creep at Wolves/Wraiths, his counterjungling is way weaker.
What's he gonna, do, Consume the big Wraith and then spend 10 seconds AAing it down?
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i don't see how anyone's jungle got buffed, camps straight up take longer to clear for the same gold and you start at a -300g disadvantage having to open with machete instead of boots, by the time the increased gold scaling comes into play you'll be lucky to get half the camps that spawn.
and to top it all off the changes have made early ganks more difficult so you'll have less gold from that avenue as well. oh and they also shifted a decent amount of gold from wraiths to double golems which is both out of the way travel time wise and a pain in the ass to clear for the majority of junglers.
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On December 04 2012 16:41 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 16:16 Craton wrote:Someone figure out all the OP shit by tomorrow night so I can abuse it. + Show Spoiler +we all know servers are going to be down for a week Sword of the Divine on Vayne/Twitch. Muramana on Ryze/Cass/Teemo. Shard of True Ice on any support, so long as your team has someone who dives into the enemy team. DFG for any double AP abduction comp. Aegis/Runic Bulwark (always). Xerath + Full MPen Runes + Sorcs + Guise + Void Staff. Black Cleaver on Wukong/Pantheon. Penetration runes on everyone really.
This. and bruisers in general just feel a lot stronger when the game goes late. Jax is literally god with 6 items
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On December 04 2012 17:02 chalice wrote:
i don't see how anyone's jungle got buffed, camps straight up take longer to clear for the same gold and you start at a -300g disadvantage having to open with machete instead of boots, by the time the increased gold scaling comes into play you'll be lucky to get half the camps that spawn.
and to top it all off the changes have made early ganks more difficult so you'll have less gold from that avenue as well. oh and they also shifted a decent amount of gold from wraiths to double golems which is both out of the way travel time wise and a pain in the ass to clear for the majority of junglers.
Maybe we'll see more 2-1-2 and 3-1-1 lanes now. I want to see more roaming offensive supports/utility bruiser play actually 
In any case, the jungle can be more of a 2nd source of farm for carries in the mid/late-game or the jungler, e.g. Lee Sin, can transition in after their first couple levels. Perhaps, denying a solo laner exp and farm for the first couple minutes might be worth more than slow farming the jungle at that time anyway.
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D blade buff is going to make AS champs very interesting. I think we will see a resurgence of Triple Dorans Blade.
5 hp per hit x3 blades x AS and you'll be looking at over 15 hp/s pretty quickly.
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Fixed a bug that causes projectile-based skillshots to not appear when fired out of the fog of war (ex: Nidalee spear)
best change. This was broken for way too long.
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couple things I want to give a whirl are
- support and a melee carry (eg fiora)
- ghost/flash roaming/support ali with distortion boots
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On December 04 2012 16:41 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 16:16 Craton wrote:Someone figure out all the OP shit by tomorrow night so I can abuse it. + Show Spoiler +we all know servers are going to be down for a week Sword of the Divine on Vayne/Twitch. Muramana on Ryze/Cass/Teemo. Shard of True Ice on any support, so long as your team has someone who dives into the enemy team. DFG for any double AP abduction comp. Aegis/Runic Bulwark (always). Xerath + Full MPen Runes + Sorcs + Guise + Void Staff. Black Cleaver on Wukong/Pantheon. Penetration runes on everyone really.
Do the changes make it worthwhile to start running penetration marks / quints on your AD carries? I'd imagine that they become that much better once you actually get a % penetration item, but your last hitting is also that much worse. Is it worth the tradeoff now?
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On December 04 2012 17:13 NEOtheONE wrote:
D blade buff is going to make AS champs very interesting. I think we will see a resurgence of Triple Dorans Blade.
5 hp per hit x3 blades x AS and you'll be looking at over 15 hp/s pretty quickly.
maybe, but since they're reducing the value of big items using a slot is going to be a more significant cost than before, and I heard they reduced the sell price on dorans.
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On December 04 2012 17:02 chalice wrote:
i don't see how anyone's jungle got buffed, camps straight up take longer to clear for the same gold and you start at a -300g disadvantage having to open with machete instead of boots, by the time the increased gold scaling comes into play you'll be lucky to get half the camps that spawn.
and to top it all off the changes have made early ganks more difficult so you'll have less gold from that avenue as well. oh and they also shifted a decent amount of gold from wraiths to double golems which is both out of the way travel time wise and a pain in the ass to clear for the majority of junglers.
I don't think it's going to be as bad as you say, but then I'm a fairly experienced jungler and a fairly adaptable person. It wouldn't surprise me, however, if a majority of players have a negative jungle experience and Riot boosts the base gold/exp again (that is, Season 2 Jungle 2: Electric Boogaloo).
On December 04 2012 17:17 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 16:41 Seuss wrote:On December 04 2012 16:16 Craton wrote:Someone figure out all the OP shit by tomorrow night so I can abuse it. + Show Spoiler +we all know servers are going to be down for a week Sword of the Divine on Vayne/Twitch. Muramana on Ryze/Cass/Teemo. Shard of True Ice on any support, so long as your team has someone who dives into the enemy team. DFG for any double AP abduction comp. Aegis/Runic Bulwark (always). Xerath + Full MPen Runes + Sorcs + Guise + Void Staff. Black Cleaver on Wukong/Pantheon. Penetration runes on everyone really. Do the changes make it worthwhile to start running penetration marks / quints on your AD carries? I'd imagine that they become that much better once you actually get a % penetration item, but your last hitting is also that much worse. Is it worth the tradeoff now?
Starting boots is actually, in my experience, a mixed bag. With 25 movespeed baked into everyone's base, boots don't make nearly as much of a difference as they used to. Starting Long Sword + 2 pots is entirely viable because there's no longer a 50 movespeed difference, and Long Sword now builds into many useful items for both bruisers and AD carries.
But yes, penetration runes are definitely strong due to the mechanics change. Unless you're going to deal a lot of mixed damage early, they'll be a good choice. Some people may prefer AD Quints for easier last hitting, and that's fine, but stacking Flat Penetration with % is extremely strong seeing as how Armor/MR are more expensive for less effect.
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Did they fix Viktors lazer aswell? That thing still bugs after the champ has been released so long ago...
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EPT
