• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:47
CET 15:47
KST 23:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League99
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Evil Geniuses - shutting down SC2 Power Rank: epic29
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion Mathematicians needed to calc "Low Econ Epicness" Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings)
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9761 users

[Patch 1.0.0.152: Preseason 3] General Discussion - Page 172

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 170 171 172 173 174 212 Next
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
December 11 2012 18:07 GMT
#3421
On December 12 2012 03:03 sylverfyre wrote:
On the PBE patch notes for 12/8:

Item Changes

The Black Cleaver
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)
now reduces an enemy champion's armor by 6.25% per stack
The Brutalizer
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)

I honestly don't think it's going to be enough/nerfing the right part of cleaver.


don't forget they made the arpen on BC unique also
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
December 11 2012 18:12 GMT
#3422
K, the patch note didn't say that though so I didn't want to cite that as a source for that info.
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
December 11 2012 18:17 GMT
#3423
Im not sure whether this is the right place to post that. Anyway, im looking for someone to teach me a bit of LoL. I have been playing some for fun lately, but even if i just play for fun im still competetive. Im around 1.5k ELO right now.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
December 11 2012 18:20 GMT
#3424
On December 12 2012 03:17 DarKFoRcE wrote:
Im not sure whether this is the right place to post that. Anyway, im looking for someone to teach me a bit of LoL. I have been playing some for fun lately, but even if i just play for fun im still competetive. Im around 1.5k ELO right now.

I would teach you, but I'm only just as good as you (likely with far far far far far worse mechanics and just riding on superior game knowledge) and am not on the EU West server like you probably are.
3.
adriftt
Profile Joined March 2012
335 Posts
December 11 2012 18:22 GMT
#3425
need to nerf the hp on cleaver. the dmg is too high but the HP is what lets you stack them and not even be glass cannon
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
December 11 2012 18:22 GMT
#3426
On December 12 2012 03:20 Inschato wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 03:17 DarKFoRcE wrote:
Im not sure whether this is the right place to post that. Anyway, im looking for someone to teach me a bit of LoL. I have been playing some for fun lately, but even if i just play for fun im still competetive. Im around 1.5k ELO right now.

I would teach you, but I'm only just as good as you (likely with far far far far far worse mechanics and just riding on superior game knowledge) and am not on the EU West server like you probably are.


Someone with good game knowledge would already help alot :D. Because most likely thats where i am lacking the most.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 18:24:54
December 11 2012 18:22 GMT
#3427
On December 12 2012 02:41 Sabin010 wrote:

So instead of hating on the Black Cleaver, I want to embrace it. After reading this article (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/emeraldw/22623-muramana-syndra-my-potential-is-limitless) I have been theory crafting a build to make it work. I think I've found a build crazy enough to work, so here is my first idea of a way to try it.

Hybrid Reds. HP regen Yellows. Flat CDR Blues. Hybrid Quints. Your masteries are 21-0-9, get 1 point in Ghost, 4 points in cdr, 8% armour and magic penetration. +3 AD, +6 Armour pen, and Executioner. For the utility, get 1 point in flash, 3 in mana regen, 3 in more mana, 1 in summoner cdr, and longer buff durations.

This set up gives us 8% + 20 armour penetration (this is enough for pretty much true damage from your right clicks vs. a squishy burst caster early game up until lvl 4 or so unless they run armour runes), 8% + 8.52 Magic Penetration (this is going to help your spells). ~10% cdr, Good HP sustain for early trading.

Now the Core Items are Manamune, Black Cleaver with Nashor's Tooth. Black Cleaver and Nashor's Tooth + runes and masteries = ~40% CDR. The 40% CDR will help you turn your Manamune into a Muramana asap. The bonus attackspeed will help you get your black cleaver stacks up. Now you become a self peeling / aoe stunning, sustained dps with an incredible bursty assassination move.

5th Item can be Void Staff for raw magic pen, or a malady for more attackspeed and magic pen. You're probably going to want to get zerker's because of how painfully low your auto attackspeed per level is.


On Syndra? No, just no. Your Hybrid Syndra is just straight up retarded. She spams spells out like crazy which probably reduces your amount of autos by like half, her main advantage is she can cast shit while moving, which autoing obviously negates in large part. Muramana does magic damage, which will be shit if you have shit magic pen. You will have no ap so I don't even know why you would bother ever casting a spell, as it would probably reduce your DPS. The ability to proc muramana is not in itself something amazing, you are expected to proc it... Not to mention Syndras spells are all hard to hit and inconsistant and her stun is on huge CD and mobility is garbage, so its not like you are getting amazing utility either.

An "incredibly bursty assassination move" what? You have no ap, your ult would do like 11 damage. Just proccing a muramana by itself isn't going to do shit with 50 ap.

You seem to completely not understand what Muramana does and why and how you would build it. Its not some magic item that if you proc it fast turns you into an unstoppable death machine, if it was you could just go Muramana PD PD PD on tristana and be a continous syndra ult.

HP regen yellows? the fuck?



In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
December 11 2012 18:26 GMT
#3428
On December 12 2012 03:22 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 02:41 Sabin010 wrote:

So instead of hating on the Black Cleaver, I want to embrace it. After reading this article (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/emeraldw/22623-muramana-syndra-my-potential-is-limitless) I have been theory crafting a build to make it work. I think I've found a build crazy enough to work, so here is my first idea of a way to try it.

Hybrid Reds. HP regen Yellows. Flat CDR Blues. Hybrid Quints. Your masteries are 21-0-9, get 1 point in Ghost, 4 points in cdr, 8% armour and magic penetration. +3 AD, +6 Armour pen, and Executioner. For the utility, get 1 point in flash, 3 in mana regen, 3 in more mana, 1 in summoner cdr, and longer buff durations.

This set up gives us 8% + 20 armour penetration (this is enough for pretty much true damage from your right clicks vs. a squishy burst caster early game up until lvl 4 or so unless they run armour runes), 8% + 8.52 Magic Penetration (this is going to help your spells). ~10% cdr, Good HP sustain for early trading.

Now the Core Items are Manamune, Black Cleaver with Nashor's Tooth. Black Cleaver and Nashor's Tooth + runes and masteries = ~40% CDR. The 40% CDR will help you turn your Manamune into a Muramana asap. The bonus attackspeed will help you get your black cleaver stacks up. Now you become a self peeling / aoe stunning, sustained dps with an incredible bursty assassination move.

5th Item can be Void Staff for raw magic pen, or a malady for more attackspeed and magic pen. You're probably going to want to get zerker's because of how painfully low your auto attackspeed per level is.


On Syndra? No, just no. Your Hybrid Syndra is just straight up retarded, she spams spells out like crazy which probably reduces your amount of autos by like half, her main advantage is she can cast shit while moving, which autoing obviously negates in large part. Muramana does magic damage, which will be shit if you have shit magic pen. You will have no ap so I don't even know why you would bother ever casting a spell, as it would probably reduce your DPS. The ability to proc muramana is not in itself something amazing, you are expected to proc it... Not to mention Syndras spells are all hard to hit and inconsistant and her stun is on huge CD and mobility is garbage, so its not like you are getting amazing utility either.

An "incredibly bursty assassination move" what? You have no ap, your ult would do like 11 damage. Just proccing a muramana by itself isn't going to do shit with 50 ap.

You seem to completely not understand what Muramana does and why and how you would build it. Its not some magic item that if you proc it fast turns you into an unstoppable death machine, if it was you could just go Muramana PD PD PD on tristana and be a continous syndra ult.





Your ultitmate procs Muramana 6 times. You max out w and e for the cc with one point in q to keep the cost low for stacking muramana and clutch stuns. Please don't call the build retarded with out even using it.
rhs408
Profile Joined January 2011
United States904 Posts
December 11 2012 18:31 GMT
#3429
On December 12 2012 03:03 sylverfyre wrote:
On the PBE patch notes for 12/8:

Item Changes

The Black Cleaver
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)
now reduces an enemy champion's armor by 6.25% per stack
The Brutalizer
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)


Thanks, where did you find this? My google search was unsuccessful...
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 18:34:54
December 11 2012 18:31 GMT
#3430
Muramana is fine on Syndra, but @Sabin010 you're not realizing why muramana is good and cleaver is not. Muramana syndra is not really caring THAT much about autoattacking or autoattack damage, just setting up a good ult. (Also, her Q procs the muramana as well for some reason, despite appearing to be AOE, the game doesn't think it is?) What's cleaver going to bring to the table? Some CDR. That's it. You're not using the Armor Pen, the muramana is providing magic damage, not physical damage, to your ulti - synergizing with the fact that Syndra is already going to be running MPen runes, masteries, and items.

In fact, I think a "nerf" muramana may get to make it more in line with its supposed intended purpose would be to make the muramana toggle damage physical, so it's better for people building armor pen instead of being best on Ryze and Syndra.

Also, Syndra will be stacking the muramana as just a tear and then buy the rest when it's mostly/fully charged. Cleaver brings NOTHING for you. At all. What the crap are you thinking.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
December 11 2012 18:32 GMT
#3431
On December 12 2012 03:26 Sabin010 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 03:22 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 02:41 Sabin010 wrote:

So instead of hating on the Black Cleaver, I want to embrace it. After reading this article (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/emeraldw/22623-muramana-syndra-my-potential-is-limitless) I have been theory crafting a build to make it work. I think I've found a build crazy enough to work, so here is my first idea of a way to try it.

Hybrid Reds. HP regen Yellows. Flat CDR Blues. Hybrid Quints. Your masteries are 21-0-9, get 1 point in Ghost, 4 points in cdr, 8% armour and magic penetration. +3 AD, +6 Armour pen, and Executioner. For the utility, get 1 point in flash, 3 in mana regen, 3 in more mana, 1 in summoner cdr, and longer buff durations.

This set up gives us 8% + 20 armour penetration (this is enough for pretty much true damage from your right clicks vs. a squishy burst caster early game up until lvl 4 or so unless they run armour runes), 8% + 8.52 Magic Penetration (this is going to help your spells). ~10% cdr, Good HP sustain for early trading.

Now the Core Items are Manamune, Black Cleaver with Nashor's Tooth. Black Cleaver and Nashor's Tooth + runes and masteries = ~40% CDR. The 40% CDR will help you turn your Manamune into a Muramana asap. The bonus attackspeed will help you get your black cleaver stacks up. Now you become a self peeling / aoe stunning, sustained dps with an incredible bursty assassination move.

5th Item can be Void Staff for raw magic pen, or a malady for more attackspeed and magic pen. You're probably going to want to get zerker's because of how painfully low your auto attackspeed per level is.


On Syndra? No, just no. Your Hybrid Syndra is just straight up retarded, she spams spells out like crazy which probably reduces your amount of autos by like half, her main advantage is she can cast shit while moving, which autoing obviously negates in large part. Muramana does magic damage, which will be shit if you have shit magic pen. You will have no ap so I don't even know why you would bother ever casting a spell, as it would probably reduce your DPS. The ability to proc muramana is not in itself something amazing, you are expected to proc it... Not to mention Syndras spells are all hard to hit and inconsistant and her stun is on huge CD and mobility is garbage, so its not like you are getting amazing utility either.

An "incredibly bursty assassination move" what? You have no ap, your ult would do like 11 damage. Just proccing a muramana by itself isn't going to do shit with 50 ap.

You seem to completely not understand what Muramana does and why and how you would build it. Its not some magic item that if you proc it fast turns you into an unstoppable death machine, if it was you could just go Muramana PD PD PD on tristana and be a continous syndra ult.





Your ultitmate procs Muramana 6 times. You max out w and e for the cc with one point in q to keep the cost low for stacking muramana and clutch stuns. Please don't call the build retarded with out even using it.


How much damage do you think a muramana proc does? You realize with no AP 6 muramana procs is considerably worse than 6 auto attacks.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 11 2012 18:34 GMT
#3432
On December 12 2012 03:32 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 03:26 Sabin010 wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:22 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 02:41 Sabin010 wrote:

So instead of hating on the Black Cleaver, I want to embrace it. After reading this article (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/emeraldw/22623-muramana-syndra-my-potential-is-limitless) I have been theory crafting a build to make it work. I think I've found a build crazy enough to work, so here is my first idea of a way to try it.

Hybrid Reds. HP regen Yellows. Flat CDR Blues. Hybrid Quints. Your masteries are 21-0-9, get 1 point in Ghost, 4 points in cdr, 8% armour and magic penetration. +3 AD, +6 Armour pen, and Executioner. For the utility, get 1 point in flash, 3 in mana regen, 3 in more mana, 1 in summoner cdr, and longer buff durations.

This set up gives us 8% + 20 armour penetration (this is enough for pretty much true damage from your right clicks vs. a squishy burst caster early game up until lvl 4 or so unless they run armour runes), 8% + 8.52 Magic Penetration (this is going to help your spells). ~10% cdr, Good HP sustain for early trading.

Now the Core Items are Manamune, Black Cleaver with Nashor's Tooth. Black Cleaver and Nashor's Tooth + runes and masteries = ~40% CDR. The 40% CDR will help you turn your Manamune into a Muramana asap. The bonus attackspeed will help you get your black cleaver stacks up. Now you become a self peeling / aoe stunning, sustained dps with an incredible bursty assassination move.

5th Item can be Void Staff for raw magic pen, or a malady for more attackspeed and magic pen. You're probably going to want to get zerker's because of how painfully low your auto attackspeed per level is.


On Syndra? No, just no. Your Hybrid Syndra is just straight up retarded, she spams spells out like crazy which probably reduces your amount of autos by like half, her main advantage is she can cast shit while moving, which autoing obviously negates in large part. Muramana does magic damage, which will be shit if you have shit magic pen. You will have no ap so I don't even know why you would bother ever casting a spell, as it would probably reduce your DPS. The ability to proc muramana is not in itself something amazing, you are expected to proc it... Not to mention Syndras spells are all hard to hit and inconsistant and her stun is on huge CD and mobility is garbage, so its not like you are getting amazing utility either.

An "incredibly bursty assassination move" what? You have no ap, your ult would do like 11 damage. Just proccing a muramana by itself isn't going to do shit with 50 ap.

You seem to completely not understand what Muramana does and why and how you would build it. Its not some magic item that if you proc it fast turns you into an unstoppable death machine, if it was you could just go Muramana PD PD PD on tristana and be a continous syndra ult.





Your ultitmate procs Muramana 6 times. You max out w and e for the cc with one point in q to keep the cost low for stacking muramana and clutch stuns. Please don't call the build retarded with out even using it.


How much damage do you think a muramana proc does? You realize with no AP 6 muramana procs is considerably worse than 6 auto attacks.


?

Muramana damage has nothing to do with AP. Literally, nothing.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
December 11 2012 18:34 GMT
#3433
On December 12 2012 03:03 sylverfyre wrote:
I honestly don't think it's going to be enough/nerfing the right part of cleaver. Worth noting though, that brutalizer is the only pen item that didn't get its pen dropped with the S3 changes. Thing is, even with nostacking cleaver + nerf, cleaver+LW is st ill going to reduce 200 armor to 67 (this assumes 8% arpen from masteries, but not 5 flat Arpen sunder.) Don't really think cleaver should have percent reduction - flat would be better because it enables AD casters to nuke squishies (much like AP casters) but still require last whisper to hurt armor-stackers significantly, rather than having two huge sources of (new and improved) %-based armor pen/reduction.

Riot said "you build BC to help your team with the shred, you build LW to help yourself" with regards to AD casters.
Too bad people can just stack it.

What's annoying me with the item is that they made it appealing for non-AD casters to use, basically making Talon's/Pantheon's ability to burst someone down, well... "mainstream". Any AD champ can. And no, I won't quote Riven or Rengar because they're utterly retarded (Riven is a freaking caster whose defensive steroids scales with her best offensive stat, a scaling offensive steroid based off of said offensive stat, and with another fucking scaling steroid on her autoattacks! For a caster!) and Kha'Zix doesn't really burst as much as he spams Q... normally.

You could theorically get around this by skewing the cost and stats so that you pay for AD casters stats (flat ArPen, %cdr, most notably) and less for generic AD stats (%ArPen or ArReduc, AD). But another problem is that s3 penetration changes mean that even AD non-casters like flat ArPen now, so you can't just slap 20 ArPen and like 20 AD on a 3.5k tier3 item and be all "hehe, no AD carry will want those stats for that cost".
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 18:37:01
December 11 2012 18:35 GMT
#3434
On December 12 2012 03:31 rhs408 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 03:03 sylverfyre wrote:
On the PBE patch notes for 12/8:

Item Changes

The Black Cleaver
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)
now reduces an enemy champion's armor by 6.25% per stack
The Brutalizer
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)


Thanks, where did you find this? My google search was unsuccessful...

PBE patch notes on Reign of Gaming.
Unfortunately, Reign of Gaming puts way too many articles on its front page, so you have to dig for anything even a few days old.

Addendum: http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22610-unoffical-pbe-patch-notes-for-12-8-2012
Phrost
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States4008 Posts
December 11 2012 18:36 GMT
#3435
On December 12 2012 03:03 sylverfyre wrote:
On the PBE patch notes for 12/8:

Item Changes

The Black Cleaver
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)
now reduces an enemy champion's armor by 6.25% per stack
The Brutalizer
Now gives +10 armor pen (down from 15)

I honestly don't think it's going to be enough/nerfing the right part of cleaver. Worth noting though, that brutalizer is the only pen item that didn't get its pen dropped with the S3 changes. Thing is, even with nostacking cleaver + nerf, cleaver+LW is st ill going to reduce 200 armor to 67 (this assumes 8% arpen from masteries, but not 5 flat Arpen sunder.) Don't really think cleaver should have percent reduction - flat would be better because it enables AD casters to nuke squishies (much like AP casters) but still require last whisper to hurt armor-stackers significantly, rather than having two huge sources of (new and improved) %-based armor pen/reduction.


They should just make the flat arp unique like it is on Liandrys and leave the numbers alone. The reason that stacking cleavers do so much damage is the flat pen + damage + health. If you make the flat pen unique then it's not better than a blood thirster.


This is me assuming that the proc % pen only increase stacks applied with more, which is fine tbh. Not really a big deal how fast it stacks in most situations.
iamphrost.tumblr.com // http://howtobebettermagicplayer.tumblr.com // twitter @phrost_
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 18:37:36
December 11 2012 18:37 GMT
#3436
On December 12 2012 03:34 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 03:32 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:26 Sabin010 wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:22 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 02:41 Sabin010 wrote:

So instead of hating on the Black Cleaver, I want to embrace it. After reading this article (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/emeraldw/22623-muramana-syndra-my-potential-is-limitless) I have been theory crafting a build to make it work. I think I've found a build crazy enough to work, so here is my first idea of a way to try it.

Hybrid Reds. HP regen Yellows. Flat CDR Blues. Hybrid Quints. Your masteries are 21-0-9, get 1 point in Ghost, 4 points in cdr, 8% armour and magic penetration. +3 AD, +6 Armour pen, and Executioner. For the utility, get 1 point in flash, 3 in mana regen, 3 in more mana, 1 in summoner cdr, and longer buff durations.

This set up gives us 8% + 20 armour penetration (this is enough for pretty much true damage from your right clicks vs. a squishy burst caster early game up until lvl 4 or so unless they run armour runes), 8% + 8.52 Magic Penetration (this is going to help your spells). ~10% cdr, Good HP sustain for early trading.

Now the Core Items are Manamune, Black Cleaver with Nashor's Tooth. Black Cleaver and Nashor's Tooth + runes and masteries = ~40% CDR. The 40% CDR will help you turn your Manamune into a Muramana asap. The bonus attackspeed will help you get your black cleaver stacks up. Now you become a self peeling / aoe stunning, sustained dps with an incredible bursty assassination move.

5th Item can be Void Staff for raw magic pen, or a malady for more attackspeed and magic pen. You're probably going to want to get zerker's because of how painfully low your auto attackspeed per level is.


On Syndra? No, just no. Your Hybrid Syndra is just straight up retarded, she spams spells out like crazy which probably reduces your amount of autos by like half, her main advantage is she can cast shit while moving, which autoing obviously negates in large part. Muramana does magic damage, which will be shit if you have shit magic pen. You will have no ap so I don't even know why you would bother ever casting a spell, as it would probably reduce your DPS. The ability to proc muramana is not in itself something amazing, you are expected to proc it... Not to mention Syndras spells are all hard to hit and inconsistant and her stun is on huge CD and mobility is garbage, so its not like you are getting amazing utility either.

An "incredibly bursty assassination move" what? You have no ap, your ult would do like 11 damage. Just proccing a muramana by itself isn't going to do shit with 50 ap.

You seem to completely not understand what Muramana does and why and how you would build it. Its not some magic item that if you proc it fast turns you into an unstoppable death machine, if it was you could just go Muramana PD PD PD on tristana and be a continous syndra ult.





Your ultitmate procs Muramana 6 times. You max out w and e for the cc with one point in q to keep the cost low for stacking muramana and clutch stuns. Please don't call the build retarded with out even using it.


How much damage do you think a muramana proc does? You realize with no AP 6 muramana procs is considerably worse than 6 auto attacks.


?

Muramana damage has nothing to do with AP. Literally, nothing.


No, but syndras ult does. I was comparing 6 procs from ult with 6 procs from autoing.

Syndra ult with only nashors ap and muramana = no damage.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 18:39:27
December 11 2012 18:38 GMT
#3437
On December 12 2012 03:37 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 03:34 Seuss wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:32 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:26 Sabin010 wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:22 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 02:41 Sabin010 wrote:

So instead of hating on the Black Cleaver, I want to embrace it. After reading this article (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/emeraldw/22623-muramana-syndra-my-potential-is-limitless) I have been theory crafting a build to make it work. I think I've found a build crazy enough to work, so here is my first idea of a way to try it.

Hybrid Reds. HP regen Yellows. Flat CDR Blues. Hybrid Quints. Your masteries are 21-0-9, get 1 point in Ghost, 4 points in cdr, 8% armour and magic penetration. +3 AD, +6 Armour pen, and Executioner. For the utility, get 1 point in flash, 3 in mana regen, 3 in more mana, 1 in summoner cdr, and longer buff durations.

This set up gives us 8% + 20 armour penetration (this is enough for pretty much true damage from your right clicks vs. a squishy burst caster early game up until lvl 4 or so unless they run armour runes), 8% + 8.52 Magic Penetration (this is going to help your spells). ~10% cdr, Good HP sustain for early trading.

Now the Core Items are Manamune, Black Cleaver with Nashor's Tooth. Black Cleaver and Nashor's Tooth + runes and masteries = ~40% CDR. The 40% CDR will help you turn your Manamune into a Muramana asap. The bonus attackspeed will help you get your black cleaver stacks up. Now you become a self peeling / aoe stunning, sustained dps with an incredible bursty assassination move.

5th Item can be Void Staff for raw magic pen, or a malady for more attackspeed and magic pen. You're probably going to want to get zerker's because of how painfully low your auto attackspeed per level is.


On Syndra? No, just no. Your Hybrid Syndra is just straight up retarded, she spams spells out like crazy which probably reduces your amount of autos by like half, her main advantage is she can cast shit while moving, which autoing obviously negates in large part. Muramana does magic damage, which will be shit if you have shit magic pen. You will have no ap so I don't even know why you would bother ever casting a spell, as it would probably reduce your DPS. The ability to proc muramana is not in itself something amazing, you are expected to proc it... Not to mention Syndras spells are all hard to hit and inconsistant and her stun is on huge CD and mobility is garbage, so its not like you are getting amazing utility either.

An "incredibly bursty assassination move" what? You have no ap, your ult would do like 11 damage. Just proccing a muramana by itself isn't going to do shit with 50 ap.

You seem to completely not understand what Muramana does and why and how you would build it. Its not some magic item that if you proc it fast turns you into an unstoppable death machine, if it was you could just go Muramana PD PD PD on tristana and be a continous syndra ult.





Your ultitmate procs Muramana 6 times. You max out w and e for the cc with one point in q to keep the cost low for stacking muramana and clutch stuns. Please don't call the build retarded with out even using it.


How much damage do you think a muramana proc does? You realize with no AP 6 muramana procs is considerably worse than 6 auto attacks.


?

Muramana damage has nothing to do with AP. Literally, nothing.


No, but syndras ult does. I was comparing 6 procs from ult with 6 procs from autoing.

Syndra ult with only nashors ap and muramana = no damage.


its .2 scaling per orb.... and with no cdr you can only get 5 orbs
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
December 11 2012 18:38 GMT
#3438
According to thenexusp they're doing that as well, but It's not reflected in the PBE notes, and I can't log onto the PBE server (at work) to check.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 18:43:57
December 11 2012 18:41 GMT
#3439
On December 12 2012 03:37 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 03:34 Seuss wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:32 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:26 Sabin010 wrote:
On December 12 2012 03:22 sob3k wrote:
On December 12 2012 02:41 Sabin010 wrote:

So instead of hating on the Black Cleaver, I want to embrace it. After reading this article (http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/emeraldw/22623-muramana-syndra-my-potential-is-limitless) I have been theory crafting a build to make it work. I think I've found a build crazy enough to work, so here is my first idea of a way to try it.

Hybrid Reds. HP regen Yellows. Flat CDR Blues. Hybrid Quints. Your masteries are 21-0-9, get 1 point in Ghost, 4 points in cdr, 8% armour and magic penetration. +3 AD, +6 Armour pen, and Executioner. For the utility, get 1 point in flash, 3 in mana regen, 3 in more mana, 1 in summoner cdr, and longer buff durations.

This set up gives us 8% + 20 armour penetration (this is enough for pretty much true damage from your right clicks vs. a squishy burst caster early game up until lvl 4 or so unless they run armour runes), 8% + 8.52 Magic Penetration (this is going to help your spells). ~10% cdr, Good HP sustain for early trading.

Now the Core Items are Manamune, Black Cleaver with Nashor's Tooth. Black Cleaver and Nashor's Tooth + runes and masteries = ~40% CDR. The 40% CDR will help you turn your Manamune into a Muramana asap. The bonus attackspeed will help you get your black cleaver stacks up. Now you become a self peeling / aoe stunning, sustained dps with an incredible bursty assassination move.

5th Item can be Void Staff for raw magic pen, or a malady for more attackspeed and magic pen. You're probably going to want to get zerker's because of how painfully low your auto attackspeed per level is.


On Syndra? No, just no. Your Hybrid Syndra is just straight up retarded, she spams spells out like crazy which probably reduces your amount of autos by like half, her main advantage is she can cast shit while moving, which autoing obviously negates in large part. Muramana does magic damage, which will be shit if you have shit magic pen. You will have no ap so I don't even know why you would bother ever casting a spell, as it would probably reduce your DPS. The ability to proc muramana is not in itself something amazing, you are expected to proc it... Not to mention Syndras spells are all hard to hit and inconsistant and her stun is on huge CD and mobility is garbage, so its not like you are getting amazing utility either.

An "incredibly bursty assassination move" what? You have no ap, your ult would do like 11 damage. Just proccing a muramana by itself isn't going to do shit with 50 ap.

You seem to completely not understand what Muramana does and why and how you would build it. Its not some magic item that if you proc it fast turns you into an unstoppable death machine, if it was you could just go Muramana PD PD PD on tristana and be a continous syndra ult.





Your ultitmate procs Muramana 6 times. You max out w and e for the cc with one point in q to keep the cost low for stacking muramana and clutch stuns. Please don't call the build retarded with out even using it.


How much damage do you think a muramana proc does? You realize with no AP 6 muramana procs is considerably worse than 6 auto attacks.


?

Muramana damage has nothing to do with AP. Literally, nothing.


No, but syndras ult does. I was comparing 6 procs from ult with 6 procs from autoing.

Syndra ult with only nashors ap and muramana = no damage.

Muramana is based on Mana, not on AP. You should be adding in things like Rod of Ages to this build.
Muramana alone adds like 100 damage per orb to the Syndra ult, at 2k mana. The ult will hurt.
The thing is, nothing else in this build does shit to synergize with the Muramana syndra build, whereas the one proposed on RoG actually makes sense.

Why, again, are you putting ARMOR PENETRATION in this build, again?

And why are you criticizing the wrong part of the build, sob3k?
nosliw
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2716 Posts
December 11 2012 18:43 GMT
#3440
Has anyone done any analysis on the Def mastery tree? Especially rank 4 and rank 5.
Prev 1 170 171 172 173 174 212 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Ultimate Battle
21:00
Google Play
Rush vs BeStLIVE!
UltimateBattle 1382
Liquipedia
WardiTV Weekly
21:00
WardiTV Mondays #111
IntoTheiNu 1324
WardiTV960
OGKoka 345
IndyStarCraft 215
Rex142
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko436
OGKoka 345
IndyStarCraft 215
Rex 142
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6453
Shuttle 1713
Jaedong 1451
Bisu 1392
Mini 604
BeSt 462
Stork 348
Light 339
actioN 331
Larva 293
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 282
Snow 229
hero 217
firebathero 213
Hyuk 115
Rush 108
Mind 99
Sharp 90
Leta 72
Barracks 69
Mong 41
sorry 37
Pusan 33
ToSsGirL 29
Killer 28
soO 24
Shinee 21
Terrorterran 20
Trap 20
Bishop 18
scan(afreeca) 18
Hm[arnc] 15
Shine 15
yabsab 14
Sacsri 13
Noble 13
Aegong 12
zelot 12
HiyA 11
Dota 2
qojqva2226
Cr1tdota938
BananaSlamJamma383
syndereN160
PGG 73
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1469
pashabiceps373
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King102
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu1609
crisheroes511
Other Games
singsing2391
B2W.Neo1285
hiko796
Livibee155
ArmadaUGS88
QueenE58
Beastyqt19
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL392
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 12
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hui .166
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki23
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1527
• WagamamaTV736
League of Legends
• Nemesis2131
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 13m
Replay Cast
8h 13m
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
22h 13m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 10h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
5 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-01
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.