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On December 02 2012 15:33 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 14:32 iKill[ShocK] wrote:
CLG EU just got ploughed with froggen on anivia Froggen on Anivia who built hextech revolver, spirit visage(which he later sold), chalice, and giant's belt before building his first AP item (Archangel's Staff). Questionable build to say the least.
I think they already figured he would 1v2 bot and he itemized for high sustain to farm up for lategame, keeping the Visage until he knew he had to teamfight hard which is when he sold it and bought DC. WotA is generally not bad, especially double WotA with Wicked but nobody on their team was actually tanky enough to survive the damage TPA could rain down in 2sec. Then a 400 CS Cait happened because they couldn't dive her and got outsmarted in the lane switches so Ez wasn't nearly as farmed. Had nothing to do with Froggen choosing a bad build, it was a good build but based on flawed tactics. He still went 4/0, too...
On a sidenote, not banning Rengar is...optimistic. I see nerfbats raining down already.
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On December 02 2012 19:45 Timerly wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 15:33 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 02 2012 14:32 iKill[ShocK] wrote:
CLG EU just got ploughed with froggen on anivia Froggen on Anivia who built hextech revolver, spirit visage(which he later sold), chalice, and giant's belt before building his first AP item (Archangel's Staff). Questionable build to say the least. I think they already figured he would 1v2 bot and he itemized for high sustain to farm up for lategame, keeping the Visage until he knew he had to teamfight hard which is when he sold it and bought DC. WotA is generally not bad, especially double WotA with Wicked but nobody on their team was actually tanky enough to survive the damage TPA could rain down in 2sec. Then a 400 CS Cait happened because they couldn't dive her and got outsmarted in the lane switches so Ez wasn't nearly as farmed. Had nothing to do with Froggen choosing a bad build, it was a good build but based on flawed tactics. He still went 4/0, too... On a sidenote, not banning Rengar is...optimistic. I see nerfbats raining down already.
TBH you can lane anivia in a side lane 1v2 vs alot of things so long as you have blue, and level advantages. Revolver probably would already have been enough because unlike an AD, a fed anivia with a sizable level advantage can very easily 100-0 a support attempting to zone alone if skills are well chained. With the start he had though there were definitely better builds he could have chosen to carry with. He never really had levels of AP that were scary relative to the timeframe.
Personally I don't like tear builds without RoA, but that's just me liking my 4 item 700AP build.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On December 02 2012 18:46 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 11:15 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On December 02 2012 11:10 xes wrote:
Is there a place where I can figure out when champions were played in a tourney? Leaguepedia lists is based on picks/bans per tourney, but I want the tourneys for the pick/banned champ.
Might just be my bad memory, but I don't remember Janna or Soraka being played much now that everyone realizes that Lulu is so strong and Zyra/Morg support work too Elobuff might have some of these stats but you have to pay for it. Actually if someone has a good website for this please let me know. So far I am manually reading every single tournament pick/bans on Leaguepedia and doing manual counts for research. I am sure there has to be a better way to do this. I was developing lolpd.net a month ago which would have been similar to TLPD but abandoned it before i finished it due to lack of interest from others.
That's sad to hear. I can imagine it must have been a lot of work though because there'd be a lot of manual input involved. Perhaps there may be a way with the new Riot API being developed to automate the process? However the tournament realm is deployed separately to the Live servers for stability and security reasons... hm...
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On December 02 2012 21:34 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 18:46 Morfildur wrote:On December 02 2012 11:15 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On December 02 2012 11:10 xes wrote:
Is there a place where I can figure out when champions were played in a tourney? Leaguepedia lists is based on picks/bans per tourney, but I want the tourneys for the pick/banned champ.
Might just be my bad memory, but I don't remember Janna or Soraka being played much now that everyone realizes that Lulu is so strong and Zyra/Morg support work too Elobuff might have some of these stats but you have to pay for it. Actually if someone has a good website for this please let me know. So far I am manually reading every single tournament pick/bans on Leaguepedia and doing manual counts for research. I am sure there has to be a better way to do this. I was developing lolpd.net a month ago which would have been similar to TLPD but abandoned it before i finished it due to lack of interest from others. That's sad to hear. I can imagine it must have been a lot of work though because there'd be a lot of manual input involved. Perhaps there may be a way with the new Riot API being developed to automate the process? However the tournament realm is deployed separately to the Live servers for stability and security reasons... hm...
It would require a few dedicated people to update the data (including adding historic data). I hadn't done any data entry yet, it was just a few hours programming it and i haven't even added the statistics stuff yet, that would have been another 2-3 hours.
However, since noone said "Hey, that's a great thing, i'd love to see that. Can you add X, Y and Z, too?", whenever i mentioned it, i didn't bother finishing it. Maybe i'll do it the next time i'm waiting for some tournament to finally start (i wrote the whole thing waiting through the last MLG delay).
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I want to see madlife on apc. For all you know he be #1 apc.
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On December 02 2012 21:50 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 21:34 MoonBear wrote:On December 02 2012 18:46 Morfildur wrote:On December 02 2012 11:15 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On December 02 2012 11:10 xes wrote:
Is there a place where I can figure out when champions were played in a tourney? Leaguepedia lists is based on picks/bans per tourney, but I want the tourneys for the pick/banned champ.
Might just be my bad memory, but I don't remember Janna or Soraka being played much now that everyone realizes that Lulu is so strong and Zyra/Morg support work too Elobuff might have some of these stats but you have to pay for it. Actually if someone has a good website for this please let me know. So far I am manually reading every single tournament pick/bans on Leaguepedia and doing manual counts for research. I am sure there has to be a better way to do this. I was developing lolpd.net a month ago which would have been similar to TLPD but abandoned it before i finished it due to lack of interest from others. That's sad to hear. I can imagine it must have been a lot of work though because there'd be a lot of manual input involved. Perhaps there may be a way with the new Riot API being developed to automate the process? However the tournament realm is deployed separately to the Live servers for stability and security reasons... hm... It would require a few dedicated people to update the data (including adding historic data). I hadn't done any data entry yet, it was just a few hours programming it and i haven't even added the statistics stuff yet, that would have been another 2-3 hours. However, since noone said "Hey, that's a great thing, i'd love to see that. Can you add X, Y and Z, too?", whenever i mentioned it, i didn't bother finishing it. Maybe i'll do it the next time i'm waiting for some tournament to finally start (i wrote the whole thing waiting through the last MLG delay).
Well, you have someone right here who would love it, and I'm sure everyone else who wants to grind statistics for LoL would love it too. Having a LoL alternative to DotA Academy would be awesome. (One of the guys who maintains that site is also a TL'er too which is cool~)
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+ Show Spoiler +
I did it lol. My head is killing me, so glad I learned Katarina over Rengar.
x_x I just want Nami to be released already. Need dat S3 patch for the HG upgrade too
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I think it's safe to say that pub winrates is not indicative at all of tournament strength.
Also, it's been like this ever since M5 started counterjungling heavily. Pub play doesn't look anything like tournament play anymore. Pubbers can't coordinate steals or coordinate a 2v1 top lane.
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Thoughts on Galio in a 1v2 lane? I feel like he can farm decently, has good sustain, and is a pretty big threat endgame via his ulti.
Also, what do you guys do as a snowbally top (ex. Riven) when your lane opponent just goes balls to the walls tanky (I'm talking 2x DShield, Chain Armor type deal)? Should you just farm lane if there is no chance of a kill, or roam map for kills?
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On December 03 2012 05:05 Mondeezy wrote:
Thoughts on Galio in a 1v2 lane? I feel like he can farm decently, has good sustain, and is a pretty big threat endgame via his ulti.
Also, what do you guys do as a snowbally top (ex. Riven) when your lane opponent just goes balls to the walls tanky (I'm talking 2x DShield, Chain Armor type deal)? Should you just farm lane if there is no chance of a kill, or roam map for kills?
I don't think he has much damage until the higher levels and he'd run out of mana. Never tried it.
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On December 03 2012 05:05 Mondeezy wrote:
Thoughts on Galio in a 1v2 lane? I feel like he can farm decently, has good sustain, and is a pretty big threat endgame via his ulti.
Also, what do you guys do as a snowbally top (ex. Riven) when your lane opponent just goes balls to the walls tanky (I'm talking 2x DShield, Chain Armor type deal)? Should you just farm lane if there is no chance of a kill, or roam map for kills?
CLG.na did this WAY back in the day against WE in iem china (I'm talking way way back the first WE team) the problem that they ran into was that its just begging for a 3 man dive (jungler coming in behind the tower once the lane gets pushed up) to wreck his day. It showed to be the first and most prevalent problem with lane swapping.
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United States47024 Posts
Galio is still one of the best 1v2 champs in the game.
On December 03 2012 05:23 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 05:05 Mondeezy wrote:
Thoughts on Galio in a 1v2 lane? I feel like he can farm decently, has good sustain, and is a pretty big threat endgame via his ulti.
Also, what do you guys do as a snowbally top (ex. Riven) when your lane opponent just goes balls to the walls tanky (I'm talking 2x DShield, Chain Armor type deal)? Should you just farm lane if there is no chance of a kill, or roam map for kills? CLG.na did this WAY back in the day against WE in iem china (I'm talking way way back the first WE team) the problem that they ran into was that its just begging for a 3 man dive (jungler coming in behind the tower once the lane gets pushed up) to wreck his day. It showed to be the first and most prevalent problem with lane swapping.
Galio actually is safer against dives than many other 1v2 laners because of how with W and proper creep aggro control, you can get an immense amount of burst healing out of situations where the enemy has creep advantage.
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United States47024 Posts
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United States23745 Posts
On December 02 2012 20:36 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 19:45 Timerly wrote:On December 02 2012 15:33 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 02 2012 14:32 iKill[ShocK] wrote:
CLG EU just got ploughed with froggen on anivia Froggen on Anivia who built hextech revolver, spirit visage(which he later sold), chalice, and giant's belt before building his first AP item (Archangel's Staff). Questionable build to say the least. I think they already figured he would 1v2 bot and he itemized for high sustain to farm up for lategame, keeping the Visage until he knew he had to teamfight hard which is when he sold it and bought DC. WotA is generally not bad, especially double WotA with Wicked but nobody on their team was actually tanky enough to survive the damage TPA could rain down in 2sec. Then a 400 CS Cait happened because they couldn't dive her and got outsmarted in the lane switches so Ez wasn't nearly as farmed. Had nothing to do with Froggen choosing a bad build, it was a good build but based on flawed tactics. He still went 4/0, too... On a sidenote, not banning Rengar is...optimistic. I see nerfbats raining down already. TBH you can lane anivia in a side lane 1v2 vs alot of things so long as you have blue, and level advantages. Revolver probably would already have been enough because unlike an AD, a fed anivia with a sizable level advantage can very easily 100-0 a support attempting to zone alone if skills are well chained. With the start he had though there were definitely better builds he could have chosen to carry with. He never really had levels of AP that were scary relative to the timeframe. Personally I don't like tear builds without RoA, but that's just me liking my 4 item 700AP build.
The problem with the build if he wanted to farm to late game was he had bought so many random items the amount of gold required to get to that was silly. He got first blood and was at one point level 5 to Toyz level 2. He could have shut down Toyz in lane, pushed down and early tower, and helped Pete shut down Cait by roaming or something. I guess this really isn't conducive to CLG.EU's playstyle, but I still think if Froggen had just built AP to the point where he could have killed Cait they might have been able to turn the game around in their favor.
Edit:Not even turn around ,keep it.
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is there any champ/circumstance Id prefer Magic Pen quints over Ap quints?
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I've picked up Varus after not playing him since... oh, about a month after he came out. I guess I've improved a lot since then, because I've been wrecking face with him. I've gotten 3 triple kills in as many games, and a penta. As long as there aren't any face humpers (Rengar, Kha'zix) he's way better than I remember.
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On December 03 2012 08:53 AsnSensation wrote:
is there any champ/circumstance Id prefer Magic Pen quints over Ap quints?
Honestly no. You might have too much penetration early game with boots/guise and have some being wasted since you're alrdy doing true dmg. AP Quints are 99% always better.
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On December 03 2012 09:22 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 08:53 AsnSensation wrote:
is there any champ/circumstance Id prefer Magic Pen quints over Ap quints? Honestly no. You might have too much penetration early game with boots/guise and have some being wasted since you're alrdy doing true dmg. AP Quints are 99% always better.
Haven't done the math, but I just run mpen on everyone. I'm poor.
TBH from a cursory glance AP reds suck.
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Quints, not reds. I don't actually know the numbers on MPen quints, but AP quints definitely don't suck.
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mpen quints for champs who rely on base damage more than scaling, for example malphite mid.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/59sst.png)
