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[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 260

Forum Index > LoL General
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Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
November 30 2012 22:32 GMT
#5181
honestly I feel left out of the ad discussion since to me they all seem like guys who just sit back play safe and auto hit shit and the best ad players are the ones who make less mistakes and occasionally ignore a tank to finish off a squishy by flasihng past them and shit but most of them dont
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 30 2012 22:32 GMT
#5182
So basically what you saying is that Ukraine and Russia will merge a team captained by an Estonian that will be the only team to contest Asians.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 30 2012 22:37 GMT
#5183
On December 01 2012 07:23 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 07:19 Numy wrote:
On December 01 2012 07:13 EquilasH wrote:
On December 01 2012 07:03 TheYango wrote:
On December 01 2012 06:35 obesechicken13 wrote:
We may never see Flash level dominance in a team game.

DotA begs to differ.


What team is currently very dominant in DotA?
I never really followed the DotA scene that much, but I've always had somewhat of an interest, and I caught som games in TI2 as well.


Well dota 2 seems a bit unstable but for awhile it was basically LGD/iG/DK > Everyone. It's still kind of like that now but there's a few teams that could maybe make an upset giving right conditions.

There's also EHOME 2010 and DK 2011 that basically just won everything during their heyday.

Well, seems we might need to look for a player that caused the dominance...

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 22:52:07
November 30 2012 22:49 GMT
#5184
On December 01 2012 05:41 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:
You still think maknoon is the best? And how does doublelift compare to weixiao?

Lilac is better, but Maknoon deserves a certain amount of credit for how he plays top lane in a way that directs the tempo of the game in a way unlike most other top laners.

Doublelift has flashy plays, but Weixiao's fundamentals are simply unmatched.

Go back and look at the way Weixiao lasthits and harasses in lane. He's never waiting for a lasthit. He's making use of every autoattack CD but he's still getting every lasthit, while getting off every autoattack virtually on CD (often on enemy champs). He doesn't wait for lasthits--he makes it seem like the lasthits are just coming to him.


Didn't Maknoon get his ass handed to him by Shy at some tourney (MLG?)

Can I see good vod of WX laning, instead of scrubby videos showing jangler farming wraiths?
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 30 2012 22:49 GMT
#5185
On December 01 2012 07:26 Sermokala wrote:
then they lost to navi in dota 2 .

lol you're ignoring the fact that KingJ and Burning already got poached by DK well before TI1.
Moderator
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 30 2012 22:58 GMT
#5186
I'm a burning fanboy the way many are bisu fanboys here on TL. lol <3
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
November 30 2012 23:19 GMT
#5187
On December 01 2012 07:49 cascades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 05:41 TheYango wrote:
On December 01 2012 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:
You still think maknoon is the best? And how does doublelift compare to weixiao?

Lilac is better, but Maknoon deserves a certain amount of credit for how he plays top lane in a way that directs the tempo of the game in a way unlike most other top laners.

Doublelift has flashy plays, but Weixiao's fundamentals are simply unmatched.

Go back and look at the way Weixiao lasthits and harasses in lane. He's never waiting for a lasthit. He's making use of every autoattack CD but he's still getting every lasthit, while getting off every autoattack virtually on CD (often on enemy champs). He doesn't wait for lasthits--he makes it seem like the lasthits are just coming to him.


Didn't Maknoon get his ass handed to him by Shy at some tourney (MLG?)

Can I see good vod of WX laning, instead of scrubby videos showing jangler farming wraiths?

MLG Dallas. Although jungle pressure played a role.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-30 23:25:38
November 30 2012 23:23 GMT
#5188
jesus christ i keep posting in the wrong thread
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
November 30 2012 23:27 GMT
#5189
^reported.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
November 30 2012 23:48 GMT
#5190
On December 01 2012 04:17 HeroHenry wrote:
How do I land a Malzahar Q. I can't land one for the life of me unless they stand still.


Get a Ryali's and E them first. Or just wait for a siege situation where 5 of them are trying to dodge it, and you'll inevitably hit a few of them (most of the time). Otherwise it mostly comes down to their ability to dodge.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
December 01 2012 01:17 GMT
#5191
On December 01 2012 06:35 bmn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 02:27 Requizen wrote:
Kayle's a tricky laner in general. A lot of times, I feel the only way to really keep her from messing you up is to bait out the QE combo, back off, and then try to abuse her while they're on CD. When they're not up, she does no damage, but be aware that they're both on a (relatively) short cooldown. Q is a big nuke that also increases her damage on you by 6/7/8/9/10%, so never ever fight her while it's active on you.

If she spams Q and W, she'll be oom sooner than later, so try to force her to use abilities and then re-engage when they're down and she has no mana. She also pushes really hard if she's trying to harass with E, so freeze the lane and take advantage of that.

Her biggest weakness (from what I hear from better Kayle players) is ganks. Because she has only an expensive, long cd, somewhat minimal sprint to rely on for escape, and she pushes if she's harassing (which is a lot), she's often very vulnerable. Yeah, you can't rely on competent junglers in solo queue, but it's something to keep in mind.


If you're melee (as Shen is), you can't really punish her that hard during QE downtime unless she's wasting it on minion waves or something. If she uses QE at the same time, there is no period where her Q is down and her E is inactive and on cooldown. (Q comes back up before E range modifier expires.)

Getting her to run OOM seems like your best bet; abusing bushes helps to make her waste her E.
Aasking for ganks when she is pushed is good too, though certain junglers will have trouble catching her if she warded.

I don't see how freezing the lane would help if she has mana; you're just asking to be harrassed to death. She can still farm just fine even if you freeze.

After some consideration, I've realized that Kayle advice about waiting for her to run out of mana needs some clarification. By the time Kayle runs out of mana throwing Q's and E's any champion will already be dead. She runs out of mana burning it on W's and R's alongside the Q's. She regens fast enough that if her mana gets low she can still farm and harass with E.

Not only that but most Kayle players are aware of Kayle's mana problems. Of the ones that max Q, many build triforce (not that uncommon according to lolking) and they build the sheen component which gives some mana. You're relying on Kayles not running ghost, not having phage, not having a ward to place in the brush, maxing Q, and not building any mana. It's reminds me of that episode where Moe tells Homer to win boxing matches by taking punches until his opponent is too tired. You give all the initiative to your opponent.

If you want to make her run out of mana get her to use W's and R's and be sure you fight with her. A Kayle that maxes E will rarely run out of mana. She will push hard though.

Off topic. I had an epiphany about AP Yi. Everyone else probably already realized this, but Yi snowballs off kills. Assume there are 5 enemies bunched up, and AP Yi can only do damage through alpha strike. The 5 enemies have 300, 600, 900, 1200, and 1500 effective magic health respectively. If Yi does 300 damage he can kill all 5 of them. If Yi does 250 damage he can't kill any of them. That's why you have to prevent Yi from getting fed, so that he won't ge that 50 damage. I don't think there's a champion in the game that can deny AP Yi his farm but several that won't die to him while getting some of their own farm.

A similar thing can be said of Katarina. Katarina relies on resets to increase her damage. She does have great damage even without any resets, but saving a silence for Kat and healing her intended target has to be the way to play. Obviously there are differences between Kat and Yi. You want to break Kat's ult asap, and unlike Yi, she doesn't have a 300armor/mr 9001 heal that will refresh on kill anyways.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 01:54:05
December 01 2012 01:52 GMT
#5192
On December 01 2012 10:17 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 06:35 bmn wrote:
On December 01 2012 02:27 Requizen wrote:
Kayle's a tricky laner in general. A lot of times, I feel the only way to really keep her from messing you up is to bait out the QE combo, back off, and then try to abuse her while they're on CD. When they're not up, she does no damage, but be aware that they're both on a (relatively) short cooldown. Q is a big nuke that also increases her damage on you by 6/7/8/9/10%, so never ever fight her while it's active on you.

If she spams Q and W, she'll be oom sooner than later, so try to force her to use abilities and then re-engage when they're down and she has no mana. She also pushes really hard if she's trying to harass with E, so freeze the lane and take advantage of that.

Her biggest weakness (from what I hear from better Kayle players) is ganks. Because she has only an expensive, long cd, somewhat minimal sprint to rely on for escape, and she pushes if she's harassing (which is a lot), she's often very vulnerable. Yeah, you can't rely on competent junglers in solo queue, but it's something to keep in mind.


If you're melee (as Shen is), you can't really punish her that hard during QE downtime unless she's wasting it on minion waves or something. If she uses QE at the same time, there is no period where her Q is down and her E is inactive and on cooldown. (Q comes back up before E range modifier expires.)

Getting her to run OOM seems like your best bet; abusing bushes helps to make her waste her E.
Aasking for ganks when she is pushed is good too, though certain junglers will have trouble catching her if she warded.

I don't see how freezing the lane would help if she has mana; you're just asking to be harrassed to death. She can still farm just fine even if you freeze.

After some consideration, I've realized that Kayle advice about waiting for her to run out of mana needs some clarification. By the time Kayle runs out of mana throwing Q's and E's any champion will already be dead. She runs out of mana burning it on W's and R's alongside the Q's. She regens fast enough that if her mana gets low she can still farm and harass with E.

Not only that but most Kayle players are aware of Kayle's mana problems. Of the ones that max Q, many build triforce (not that uncommon according to lolking) and they build the sheen component which gives some mana. You're relying on Kayles not running ghost, not having phage, not having a ward to place in the brush, maxing Q, and not building any mana. It's reminds me of that episode where Moe tells Homer to win boxing matches by taking punches until his opponent is too tired. You give all the initiative to your opponent.

If you want to make her run out of mana get her to use W's and R's and be sure you fight with her. A Kayle that maxes E will rarely run out of mana. She will push hard though.

Off topic. I had an epiphany about AP Yi. Everyone else probably already realized this, but Yi snowballs off kills. Assume there are 5 enemies bunched up, and AP Yi can only do damage through alpha strike. The 5 enemies have 300, 600, 900, 1200, and 1500 effective magic health respectively. If Yi does 300 damage he can kill all 5 of them. If Yi does 250 damage he can't kill any of them. That's why you have to prevent Yi from getting fed, so that he won't ge that 50 damage. I don't think there's a champion in the game that can deny AP Yi his farm but several that won't die to him while getting some of their own farm.

A similar thing can be said of Katarina. Katarina relies on resets to increase her damage. She does have great damage even without any resets, but saving a silence for Kat and healing her intended target has to be the way to play. Obviously there are differences between Kat and Yi. You want to break Kat's ult asap, and unlike Yi, she doesn't have a 300armor/mr 9001 heal that will refresh on kill anyways.


Kat has many ways to do damage and her defensive properties from her kit doesn't stun her. Also, ever having a Magic EHP spread like that is silly.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
December 01 2012 02:26 GMT
#5193
On December 01 2012 10:52 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 10:17 obesechicken13 wrote:
On December 01 2012 06:35 bmn wrote:
On December 01 2012 02:27 Requizen wrote:
Kayle's a tricky laner in general. A lot of times, I feel the only way to really keep her from messing you up is to bait out the QE combo, back off, and then try to abuse her while they're on CD. When they're not up, she does no damage, but be aware that they're both on a (relatively) short cooldown. Q is a big nuke that also increases her damage on you by 6/7/8/9/10%, so never ever fight her while it's active on you.

If she spams Q and W, she'll be oom sooner than later, so try to force her to use abilities and then re-engage when they're down and she has no mana. She also pushes really hard if she's trying to harass with E, so freeze the lane and take advantage of that.

Her biggest weakness (from what I hear from better Kayle players) is ganks. Because she has only an expensive, long cd, somewhat minimal sprint to rely on for escape, and she pushes if she's harassing (which is a lot), she's often very vulnerable. Yeah, you can't rely on competent junglers in solo queue, but it's something to keep in mind.


If you're melee (as Shen is), you can't really punish her that hard during QE downtime unless she's wasting it on minion waves or something. If she uses QE at the same time, there is no period where her Q is down and her E is inactive and on cooldown. (Q comes back up before E range modifier expires.)

Getting her to run OOM seems like your best bet; abusing bushes helps to make her waste her E.
Aasking for ganks when she is pushed is good too, though certain junglers will have trouble catching her if she warded.

I don't see how freezing the lane would help if she has mana; you're just asking to be harrassed to death. She can still farm just fine even if you freeze.

After some consideration, I've realized that Kayle advice about waiting for her to run out of mana needs some clarification. By the time Kayle runs out of mana throwing Q's and E's any champion will already be dead. She runs out of mana burning it on W's and R's alongside the Q's. She regens fast enough that if her mana gets low she can still farm and harass with E.

Not only that but most Kayle players are aware of Kayle's mana problems. Of the ones that max Q, many build triforce (not that uncommon according to lolking) and they build the sheen component which gives some mana. You're relying on Kayles not running ghost, not having phage, not having a ward to place in the brush, maxing Q, and not building any mana. It's reminds me of that episode where Moe tells Homer to win boxing matches by taking punches until his opponent is too tired. You give all the initiative to your opponent.

If you want to make her run out of mana get her to use W's and R's and be sure you fight with her. A Kayle that maxes E will rarely run out of mana. She will push hard though.

Off topic. I had an epiphany about AP Yi. Everyone else probably already realized this, but Yi snowballs off kills. Assume there are 5 enemies bunched up, and AP Yi can only do damage through alpha strike. The 5 enemies have 300, 600, 900, 1200, and 1500 effective magic health respectively. If Yi does 300 damage he can kill all 5 of them. If Yi does 250 damage he can't kill any of them. That's why you have to prevent Yi from getting fed, so that he won't ge that 50 damage. I don't think there's a champion in the game that can deny AP Yi his farm but several that won't die to him while getting some of their own farm.

A similar thing can be said of Katarina. Katarina relies on resets to increase her damage. She does have great damage even without any resets, but saving a silence for Kat and healing her intended target has to be the way to play. Obviously there are differences between Kat and Yi. You want to break Kat's ult asap, and unlike Yi, she doesn't have a 300armor/mr 9001 heal that will refresh on kill anyways.


Kat has many ways to do damage and her defensive properties from her kit doesn't stun her. Also, ever having a Magic EHP spread like that is silly.

What's your point? It's an example.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
December 01 2012 03:30 GMT
#5194
Shy > Lilac > MakNooN
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
December 01 2012 03:33 GMT
#5195
On December 01 2012 12:30 NeoIllusions wrote:
Shy > Lilac > MakNooN


Maknoon always and forever #1.
Remember Violet.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 03:37:40
December 01 2012 03:36 GMT
#5196
I echo Yango's comment about MakNooN deserving special praise for how he controls and directs Sword. But if we're going strictly by Top lane ability, I go with my list.

Edit: don't know where I'd put Reapered since I haven't seen him since he left Blaze but back when did play, he was also ahead of MakNooN.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
zodde
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1908 Posts
December 01 2012 04:54 GMT
#5197
So what should you pick vs AP Yi now that everyone is going to play him in soloQ?
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
December 01 2012 05:03 GMT
#5198
super bursty heroes. He wrecks sustainers like morgana or yorick.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
December 01 2012 05:06 GMT
#5199
I imagine you also want some kind of hard cc for his meditation
Wetty
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia419 Posts
December 01 2012 05:14 GMT
#5200
Both of the above comments and the earlier talk of AP sion lead me to thinking... AP sion against AP yi. Not sure its a great pick, because hes not great in team fights, but he seems like he can push the lane better than Yi (shield pops on all 6-7 minions in comparison to Yi hitting 4, and his shield shouldnt be broken by Alpha) and he has the hard cc, and burst that is good against Yi.
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