EPTwhat do you guys think about running no jungler at all. the jungler is support and gives up most of his camps to laners. why not just embrace that fully. let mid take wraiths, wolves and blue. let the ad take red and golems (or top depending on which side you spawn as). you could run double ad/support lanes and have the support roam (like a taric). if i could have first picked ali i would have run double support/ad lanes. with the extra gold from the jungle camps each lane should be able to afford ample wards to protect against the other jungler, and you could even ward his buffs and move together to contest them. if you have 2 0-cs supports on your team, and your 3 carries getting really farmed i think it might work.
[Patch 1.0.0.149: TF Update] General Discussion - Page 8
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
what do you guys think about running no jungler at all. the jungler is support and gives up most of his camps to laners. why not just embrace that fully. let mid take wraiths, wolves and blue. let the ad take red and golems (or top depending on which side you spawn as). you could run double ad/support lanes and have the support roam (like a taric). if i could have first picked ali i would have run double support/ad lanes. with the extra gold from the jungle camps each lane should be able to afford ample wards to protect against the other jungler, and you could even ward his buffs and move together to contest them. if you have 2 0-cs supports on your team, and your 3 carries getting really farmed i think it might work. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
Also smite is invaluable for objectives such as dragon/baron/buffs.It would cause an awkward situation where one of your supports needs to run smite as well. The pressure a jungler causes is just too valuable for a team to give up on.Even if your supports ward everything the jungler can just buy a oracle and clean everything up without the fear of getting caught since there is no jungler on the opposing team. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:24 Vaporized wrote: something just occurred to me. a few teams in the championships talked about their 'secret strats'. no one went very far with their ideas though. what do you guys think about running no jungler at all. the jungler is support and gives up most of his camps to laners. why not just embrace that fully. let mid take wraiths, wolves and blue. let the ad take red and golems (or top depending on which side you spawn as). you could run double ad/support lanes and have the support roam (like a taric). if i could have first picked ali i would have run double support/ad lanes. with the extra gold from the jungle camps each lane should be able to afford ample wards to protect against the other jungler, and you could even ward his buffs and move together to contest them. if you have 2 0-cs supports on your team, and your 3 carries getting really farmed i think it might work. So basically you have a jungler who camps top 24/7? Seems legit. You're not going to have 'extra gold' though, just the gold is distributed away from your jungler and to the laners, so your team's overall ward money should still be the same. I'm also not sure about your team's objective control without smite, although choosing nunu or chogath might be good enough. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:24 Vaporized wrote: something just occurred to me. a few teams in the championships talked about their 'secret strats'. no one went very far with their ideas though. what do you guys think about running no jungler at all. the jungler is support and gives up most of his camps to laners. why not just embrace that fully. let mid take wraiths, wolves and blue. let the ad take red and golems (or top depending on which side you spawn as). you could run double ad/support lanes and have the support roam (like a taric). if i could have first picked ali i would have run double support/ad lanes. with the extra gold from the jungle camps each lane should be able to afford ample wards to protect against the other jungler, and you could even ward his buffs and move together to contest them. if you have 2 0-cs supports on your team, and your 3 carries getting really farmed i think it might work. lmao did you watch the finals? did you see how much pressure lilballz put all over the map? that is what a jungler does and there is no reason not to have it. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
b) start red and fk their top up real good and also of course c) so that it looks like you have a jungler (THEYLL NEVER SEE IT COMING) Also makes your mid be able to do wraiths even more often. Might be a viable strat, but only for purple side imo. Then again, this is theorycrafting, so chances are it's really really terrible. On October 18 2012 06:39 MooMooMugi wrote: Apparently Fiora beats Jayce, confirm or deny? I call BS. Nobody plays Fiora, so it'd be impossible to know that. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Arekan
United States248 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:39 MooMooMugi wrote: Apparently Fiora beats Jayce, confirm or deny? While the Jayce may have to think a little bit more while harassing due to her parry, I doubt Fiora would fare much better than most other tops. His hammer QE is still going to chunk her hard, and I doubt her sustain will be enough to win the trades. EDIT: With regards to a jungle-less team comp, I could see it working under the circumstances of something like a double roam squad of Taric/Alistar or something. But in that case, why not just stick Ali in jungle then? Either that, or pushing down 2 towers extremely quickly then roaming to combat the lack of map control that a jungle-less comp would create early on. | ||
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Koenig99
Canada904 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:39 MooMooMugi wrote: Apparently Fiora beats Jayce, confirm or deny? Been playing Fiora top a lot the past day, though I haven't laned vs a Jayce yet, but the key to winning with Fiora is to abuse the fact that her autos hurt like hell early on, so I usually try to all-in them by lvl4. Once they start getting tabis and other armor items, you're kinda dicked. That's why I said that Fiora beats Irelia hard, because her early damage is too much for Irelia to handle. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:41 Requizen wrote: So, now two lanes with lower experience, less map pressure, less objective control, and two support-level poor people (the difference between low jungle gold and no support gold is very noticeable)? Good plan, I suppose. there are ways to work around that. let the support take the jungle camps if needed. the smite mastery is a free 10 gold every minute or so. also if you went double ad you would have 2 farmed carries that scale off gold not levels. and mid is freefarming his lane and the jungle so he should be strong. this would work especially well if you waited for the other team to pick their top (ideally a melee bruiser) and then you countered with a ad/support lane that can push and deny cs/xp. you could get vayne for the top to 2v1, and a more traditional lane bully ad like corki to 2v2 the bot lane's enemy support and ad. it would require you picking against what the other team picks, and a very specific set of supports (why i said first pick ali would be a good start, leona taric or blitz would also be good i think). but isnt that the whole point of a 'special strat'. it would also require a thorough knowledge of how the game is progressing so that you can force the advantage when your team is stronger, and starve the other team out like TPA was so good at. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
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cDgCornpops
62 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
On October 18 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote: what we need on this forum is more 1100s and unranked give more advice and opinions i wonder what people will say when im higher ranked. i stopped jungling in low-elo and have gone up 150 points since the weekend playing ad. i am not a bad player. also this wasnt advice or opinions. teams talked about their secret strats that turned out to be dumb and pointless. i asked what people thought about my idea. i didnt say HEY GUYS HERES MY NEW OP STRAT. YOU HEARD IT HEAR FIRST. NOW GO OWN SOLOQUE. at least we're not talking about elo hell and gp5 for a blessed change. i saw some riot guy say in a thread about season 3 that 0-cs support was always the optimal way to play, but it just took a while to catch on. just because you havent seen something doesnt automatically mean its bad. i mean a shen support/mini-jungler, plus tf mid could apply gank and countergank pressure globally without being strictly junglers. in any case this was mainly in regards to the season 2 championships where several teams needed to try a cheesy strat to have a chance to win. in season 3 the jungle is being remade and this entire concept will be moot. | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:51 Vaporized wrote: there are ways to work around that. let the support take the jungle camps if needed. the smite mastery is a free 10 gold every minute or so. also if you went double ad you would have 2 farmed carries that scale off gold not levels. and mid is freefarming his lane and the jungle so he should be strong. this would work especially well if you waited for the other team to pick their top (ideally a melee bruiser) and then you countered with a ad/support lane that can push and deny cs/xp. you could get vayne for the top to 2v1, and a more traditional lane bully ad like corki to 2v2 the bot lane's enemy support and ad. it would require you picking against what the other team picks, and a very specific set of supports (why i said first pick ali would be a good start, leona taric or blitz would also be good i think). but isnt that the whole point of a 'special strat'. it would also require a thorough knowledge of how the game is progressing so that you can force the advantage when your team is stronger, and starve the other team out like TPA was so good at. There's no way a mid without jungle pressure should be able to freefarm vs a mid with jungle pressure. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On October 18 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote: what we need on this forum is more 1100s and unranked give more advice and opinions what we need on this forum is more 2k+ players who just tell people they're wrong and contribute nothing else | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
On October 18 2012 07:33 barbsq wrote: what we need on this forum is more 2k+ players who just tell people they're wrong and contribute nothing else you're completely wrong here you clearly dont know what you're talking about | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On October 18 2012 07:37 Slayer91 wrote: you're completely wrong here you clearly dont know what you're talking about apparantly | ||
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