EPTI do lots of damage though.
[Patch 1.0.0.148: Kha'Zix] General Discussion - Page 9
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
I do lots of damage though. | ||
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:16 Slusher wrote: not to mention Draven's passive can only scale off Arpen. thats true | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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jadoth
694 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:29 jadoth wrote: If i remember correctly flat ad is better in trades pre 3-4 depending on the carry, then arpen is better vs hero at every reasonable point after that. Varies slightly based on how much armor they runed/masteried for, but yes. The tradeoff is also slightly worse than that for Quints. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:17 zulu_nation8 wrote: you've ever tried to trade vs someone with full apen while having full ad? Armor pen does more damage, straight up. Unless you're not running armor runes (does anyone skip out on armor runes these days? A lot of people are even putting 2 or 9 points in defensive.) and thus the ArPen is over-capping you, 70-ish damage on ~25 armor is less damage than 55ish damage on 0 armor (both builds presumably have 6 armor pen mastery). The gap is widened on Draven due to his passive giving extra physical damage which is only increased by armor pen. (Also helps that Draven is using spinning axe to make last hitting easier, mitigating the lack of AD-for-easier-last-hitting.) At level 1 the damage difference is pretty minor (almost identical autos, but like 5ish damage gained from passive) but as you level and add more +damage items, armor pen runes REALLY start outscaling AD runes, even though increasing armor of your targets does slightly diminish the % increase of armor pen. It's not until you add in a last whisper that AD runes "catch back up" (unless your targets are stacking absurd amounts of armor. In which case, you really should be getting the LW anyway.) When the game plan is balls to the wall aggression, Armor Pen runes are quite justifiable. Edit: If they walk into lane with something else instead of armor yellows though, you are in an awkward state early where your runes aren't doing much. However, you may be able to enact the old day9 plan of "They're doing something weird? Just fucking kill them." | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:41 OutlaW- wrote: y but things dont always end up too well and if you end up getting pushed to the tower you're gonna miss a lot of cs But on draven specifically, when he's farming under tower he can pretty much catch every single axe (particularly when your name is Aphromoo), and lean on the huge damage of spinning axes to ensure last hits even with slightly lower base AD. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On September 27 2012 16:40 Morfildur wrote: Am i the only one who thinks the rengar/kha'zix interaction is a bad idea? Let's say we are at low to mid ELO, your Kha'zix is bad, the enemy Rengar is ok but doesn't get a lot of kills and never gets his necklace stacked too high. Then he gets the buff, stumbles on Kha'zix invading his jungle and kills him on the spot. Suddenly he goes from "ok" to "fully stacked beastmode". While i don't care about small stuff like -1 damage on some skins or such, this interaction is a lot more intrusive and can actually influence the outcome of games. I'd be fine with Rengar getting 2 stacks on his necklace for a Kha'zix kill with that buff up but making the item fully stacked and not lose stacks on death anymore is just too much. What's the general opinion on necklace anyway? I always thought it was dangerous to get because it's a snowball item and I don't have COURAGE. That said, if Kha'zix is invading jungle at 16 by himself he might deserve to die anyway. I think it's a good mechanic. It makes it interesting during pick phase if one of them is picked and it introduces another element to mid/late-game teamfights. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:32 Sponkz wrote: Imo flat arpen isn't really worth it if you don't plan to get additional flat arpen (and when was the last time u saw someone that wasnt ez, getting brut?). Also 15 AD, always last hit, never miss huehue. Because you never build any ARpen until Last Whisperer, +25 ARpen is much better than +15AD in terms of raw damage to champions until you get Last Whisperer at which point your runes don't matter anyways. The only time ARpen is bad is on targets with already low armor: say a Janna comes to lane without any armor runes or masteries. Then +25 ARpen would put you over the cap and would be "wasted." Armor is a multiplicative decrease to your damage output, so penetration is a multiplicative increase. The argument for +15 AD comes from the fact that minions have no armor, so being able to last hit easier gives you bigger windows where you can sneak in creeps without taking harass. But since melee creeps start scaling armor pretty quickly, a lot of pros have been running a mix of AD and ARpen to maximize both damage to creeps and champions. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:43 kainzero wrote: What's the general opinion on necklace anyway? I always thought it was dangerous to get because it's a snowball item and I don't have COURAGE. That said, if Kha'zix is invading jungle at 16 by himself he might deserve to die anyway. I think it's a good mechanic. It makes it interesting during pick phase if one of them is picked and it introduces another element to mid/late-game teamfights. Well in terms of AD per GP, it's as efficient as a longsword at level 5, and efficient as a BF sword by level 6. I don't see why not to get it. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On September 27 2012 11:29 qanik wrote: Kha'zix looking real strong as a jungler with a far gap closer and slow. Not many junglers have that combination. It's like Rengar, but without the requirement of a bush. dota4lyfe, but, what? you mean aside from virtually every single | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:51 OutlaW- wrote: apromoo is also like the only one who regularly runs half arp runes (he runnin 7 arp marks on ezreal atm) Last time I saw a caster check Chaox's runes in a tourney, he was running 6 ArP marks with 3 AD marks and AD quints for +10 AD and +10 ARpen on Graves. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 28 2012 02:50 Caller wrote: dota4lyfe, but, what? you mean aside from virtually every single There are very few assassins or bruisers with a full on gap closer, let alone one that doesn't require a target or a skillshot. Slows and stuns/CCs are more prevalent, but rarely are they in conjunction on a single champion. Kha'zik's are strong in my mind because they're easy to use: Leap doesn't require a target or anything, so it's good for both in and outs. His slow is part of his passive (so as long as you hit something, and can be reapplied), applies on his "nuke", and his ranged ability can be upgraded to apply it in an area from a decently long range. There are very few melee champions that boast a kit like that. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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