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[Patch 1.0.0.148: Kha'Zix] General Discussion - Page 42

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wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 29 2012 22:29 GMT
#821
okay, fuck this shit, first game against khazix, he's fucking annoying, that jump has so much utility when it comes to buff steals, and the second he gets phage, it's impossible to get away from the fucker.

Khazix nerf incoming imo.
liftlift > tsm
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
September 29 2012 22:32 GMT
#822
No way. I hope riot intends to change the meta a bit by releasing a good assassin. If they nerf him, bruiser/tanky meta gonna stayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
to be honest he has quite a few flaws
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 29 2012 22:33 GMT
#823
Well it doesn't help riot servers blow, and i'm lagging like crazy, and im' playing jayce jungle.
liftlift > tsm
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 22:37:43
September 29 2012 22:34 GMT
#824
I do believe in relative Elo hell, as in that's where you're better individually than most, but not enough to consistently carry, so not an absolute Elo range. I also know that I don't feed at 1400 and that games there are relatively balanced between the teams. Then I get some morons in a row, those few games you can't carry (and I don't carry at 1400, or rarely, so I guess I belong there), and ~-70 Elo (losing 13 on average and winning 11 almost all the time), then I fall a bit below 1350 Elo.
People are so fucking dumb. @_@ I know it's not Elo hell, but they play so badly, are so stupid, suddenly it feels like a totally different world. But that's only 70-80 Elo, that shouldn't make any difference!
And I can carry average games in that environment, judging from the opposing team. But I don't get average games, there are morons all around, the kind that start regrowth+manapot top, the botlane that tries to invade without warning, the dude that takes Orianna support with Ashe and tries a level 1 fight against Graves Leona. It's just frustrating, I want to play with people whose mechanics are on par with my mediocre ones, not guys that last hit better than me but are such morons that every game is a new game of "how much will they manage to baffle me this time?".

Fuck this. I can do my part, I can sometimes carry 5v5, but I can't do it 4v6, or even 3v7 (give or take one if I'm do busy facepalming to play correctly with both hands).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
September 29 2012 22:35 GMT
#825
Kha'Zix = no more need to play AP Trist for the super mario resets.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
September 29 2012 22:42 GMT
#826
On September 30 2012 07:35 xes wrote:
Kha'Zix = no more need to play AP Trist for the super mario resets.

Play AP yi, trist, kha'zix, and squishy Darius on the same team. Watch as no one wants to engage until someone on the enemy team is below quarter health.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 29 2012 22:42 GMT
#827
On September 30 2012 07:32 OutlaW- wrote:
No way. I hope riot intends to change the meta a bit by releasing a good assassin. If they nerf him, bruiser/tanky meta gonna stayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
to be honest he has quite a few flaws


Well, to be honest, if they want to make assassins they should make assassins. There is no place in the game for assassins so long as Rengar exists in his current form.
Freeeeeeedom
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
September 29 2012 22:45 GMT
#828
On September 30 2012 07:42 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 07:35 xes wrote:
Kha'Zix = no more need to play AP Trist for the super mario resets.

Play AP yi, trist, kha'zix, and squishy Darius on the same team. Watch as no one wants to engage until someone on the enemy team is below quarter health.


Throw in a Kayle for extra lulz.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 22:48:32
September 29 2012 22:46 GMT
#829
On September 30 2012 07:32 OutlaW- wrote:
No way. I hope riot intends to change the meta a bit by releasing a good assassin. If they nerf him, bruiser/tanky meta gonna stayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
to be honest he has quite a few flaws

The thing is, in terms of competitive play, the usefulness of a melee who doesn't bring AoE teamfighting ability, and is explicitly not supposed to be a melee carry (e.g. designed to only be able to kill squishies) is just fairly limited unless they're blazingly op. This isn't a "metagame" issue, this is just the flaw in treating "assassin" as a proper role.
Moderator
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 29 2012 22:48 GMT
#830
On September 30 2012 07:46 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 07:32 OutlaW- wrote:
No way. I hope riot intends to change the meta a bit by releasing a good assassin. If they nerf him, bruiser/tanky meta gonna stayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
to be honest he has quite a few flaws

The thing is, in terms of competitive play, the usefulness of a melee who doesn't bring AoE teamfighting ability, and is explicitly not supposed to be a melee carry (e.g. designed to only be able to kill squishies) is just fairly limited unless they're blazingly op. This isn't a "metagame" issue, this is just the flaw in treating "assassin" as a proper role.

Assassin also feel extremely unfun to play against, especially as a squishy. Since there's almost no counterplay against an a assassin, when you're a squishy. You either die in half a second, or you don't. It's a very binary feel.
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 22:50:41
September 29 2012 22:49 GMT
#831
The nature of what people define as "assassin" is such that the kit is geared specifically toward solo kills--and sacrifices general teamfighting ability (in comparison to melees that bring more AoE, CC, or utility). A champ that's solo-kill oriented is naturally either blazingly OP, or incredibly snowbally--neither of which are sustainable for an archetype in competitive play.

Solo kill-based kits are just too binary. Either they can solo kill people based on being OP or extremely fed and snowball because of the threat they present, or they can't and they're useless because that's all they can do.
Moderator
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
September 29 2012 22:49 GMT
#832
On September 30 2012 07:46 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 07:32 OutlaW- wrote:
No way. I hope riot intends to change the meta a bit by releasing a good assassin. If they nerf him, bruiser/tanky meta gonna stayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
to be honest he has quite a few flaws

The thing is, in terms of competitive play, the usefulness of a melee who doesn't bring AoE teamfighting ability, and is explicitly not supposed to be a melee carry (e.g. designed to only be able to kill squishies) is just fairly limited unless they're blazingly op. This isn't a "metagame" issue, this is just the flaw in treating "assassin" as a proper role.

And why? Because bruisers and tanky people are too strong in comparison. A 15k gold Cho at 30 min or a 15k gold khazix, cho gonna be 3x more useful almost no matter what. It's not just an issue of coordination. I would welcome a buff to assassins (who are rarely played anyways) like talon, akali, pantheon or a nerf to everyone tanky..
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 22:52:31
September 29 2012 22:50 GMT
#833
On September 30 2012 07:49 TheYango wrote:
The nature of what people define as "assassin" is such that the kit is geared specifically toward solo kills--and sacrifices general teamfighting ability (in comparison to melees that bring more AoE, CC, or utility). A champ that's solo-kill oriented is naturally either blazingly OP, or incredibly snowbally--neither of which are sustainable for an archetype in competitive play.

Proof, pre-gunblade nerf Akali. Shit was so fucking stupid.

It's not for balance issue, outlaw, it also has to do with "funness". How fun is it to be an AD carry in the backline, then all of a sudden one guy jumps on you, 100-0's you in halfsecond, with absolutely no counterplay option on your part? Now multiply that by the number of games you've played as AD-C. It gets real unfun, real quick.
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 22:57:31
September 29 2012 22:53 GMT
#834
On September 30 2012 07:49 OutlaW- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 07:46 TheYango wrote:
On September 30 2012 07:32 OutlaW- wrote:
No way. I hope riot intends to change the meta a bit by releasing a good assassin. If they nerf him, bruiser/tanky meta gonna stayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
to be honest he has quite a few flaws

The thing is, in terms of competitive play, the usefulness of a melee who doesn't bring AoE teamfighting ability, and is explicitly not supposed to be a melee carry (e.g. designed to only be able to kill squishies) is just fairly limited unless they're blazingly op. This isn't a "metagame" issue, this is just the flaw in treating "assassin" as a proper role.

And why? Because bruisers and tanky people are too strong in comparison. A 15k gold Cho at 30 min or a 15k gold khazix, cho gonna be 3x more useful almost no matter what. It's not just an issue of coordination. I would welcome a buff to assassins (who are rarely played anyways) like talon, akali, pantheon or a nerf to everyone tanky..

You're missing the point. You can't balance solo-kill based kits for competitive play because their balance is too binary. Either they can do their job and present too strong a threat because of it (even the worst case scenario of a suicide dive where an assassin trades themselves for an AD carry is worth it because then they're fighting a 4v4 without an AD carry), or they can't complete the kill and they're just a liability. There's not a middle ground because the typical assassin kit sacrifices CC/utility/AoE that conventional melees have (which allows even an under-farmed Cho'gath to maintain a teamfight presence), creating the "useless when behind, takes control of the game when ahead" gameplay that characterizes all assassins in the game, regardless of balance.

Incidentally, every "assassin" kit that actually did have these CC/utility/AoE aspects to make them good teamfighters just end up not being considered assassins in the long run--see Diana.
Moderator
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
September 29 2012 22:58 GMT
#835
today i learned, killing a ward counts as a cs
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Razhil
Profile Joined May 2011
Belgium208 Posts
September 29 2012 23:01 GMT
#836
On September 30 2012 07:50 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 07:49 TheYango wrote:
The nature of what people define as "assassin" is such that the kit is geared specifically toward solo kills--and sacrifices general teamfighting ability (in comparison to melees that bring more AoE, CC, or utility). A champ that's solo-kill oriented is naturally either blazingly OP, or incredibly snowbally--neither of which are sustainable for an archetype in competitive play.

Proof, pre-gunblade nerf Akali. Shit was so fucking stupid.

It's not for balance issue, outlaw, it also has to do with "funness". How fun is it to be an AD carry in the backline, then all of a sudden one guy jumps on you, 100-0's you in halfsecond, with absolutely no counterplay option on your part? Now multiply that by the number of games you've played as AD-C. It gets real unfun, real quick.


This so much... If you start a game and see something like Talon, Akali, Rengar in the enemy team and you're the AD carry (and maybe, even worse, you've chosen to NOT pick a AD carry with a build-in escape, like Ashe), you know you won't have fun this game. But like NO fun at all.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 23:14:46
September 29 2012 23:03 GMT
#837
WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
Can't do any fucking thing against Kha'Zix. He's level 2 with red, jumps into lane, there's TF so I flash before the gold card, get stunned under my tower, Kha'Zix auto with his passive then Q, the Q does 145 damage thanks to the isolation bonus, and now I'm dead because that's a FUCKING THIRD of my HP bar. Because the range on isolation is fucking dumb.

He is fucking utterly broken mid, with all the squishies. And the guy doesn't even run full AD runes. Stupid fucking broken shit, how do you expect that to be played against?
He dives me everytime and kills me before I can do anything. Even the tower doesn't have the time to hit him more than once. If I'm lucky.

He comes at 6, I see his ult, flash to go under my tower is down. I get stunned by flash TF and before the stun wears off I'm dead.
Balanced. Fun to play against.

'k again, we're level 9. I put my stun under me as I run since TF wants to aggro. He flashes, stuns, Kha kills me before my stun stuns him (takes 1.5s).
Bullshit champ.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 29 2012 23:06 GMT
#838
On September 30 2012 08:03 Alaric wrote:
WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
Can't do any fucking thing against Kha'Zix. He's level 2 with red, jumps into lane, there's TF so I flash before the gold card, get stunned under my tower, Kha'Zix auto with his passive then Q, the Q does 145 damage thanks to the isolation bonus, and now I'm dead because that's a FUCKING THIRD of my HP bar. Because the range on isolation is fucking dumb.

He is fucking utterly broken mid, with all the squishies. And the guy doesn't even run full AD runes. Stupid fucking broken shit, how do you expect that to be played against?
He dives me everytime and kills me before I can do anything. Even the tower doesn't have the time to hit him more than once. If I'm lucky.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who fucking hates the damn champion, everyone feel my rage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, during towerdives he probably takes like 1 tower hit, if done correctly.
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 29 2012 23:07 GMT
#839
Please take the QQ to the QQ thread.
Moderator
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
September 29 2012 23:07 GMT
#840
On September 30 2012 08:01 Razhil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 07:50 wei2coolman wrote:
On September 30 2012 07:49 TheYango wrote:
The nature of what people define as "assassin" is such that the kit is geared specifically toward solo kills--and sacrifices general teamfighting ability (in comparison to melees that bring more AoE, CC, or utility). A champ that's solo-kill oriented is naturally either blazingly OP, or incredibly snowbally--neither of which are sustainable for an archetype in competitive play.

Proof, pre-gunblade nerf Akali. Shit was so fucking stupid.

It's not for balance issue, outlaw, it also has to do with "funness". How fun is it to be an AD carry in the backline, then all of a sudden one guy jumps on you, 100-0's you in halfsecond, with absolutely no counterplay option on your part? Now multiply that by the number of games you've played as AD-C. It gets real unfun, real quick.


This so much... If you start a game and see something like Talon, Akali, Rengar in the enemy team and you're the AD carry (and maybe, even worse, you've chosen to NOT pick a AD carry with a build-in escape, like Ashe), you know you won't have fun this game. But like NO fun at all.

Like, if you start a game as talon or pantheon and you see the enemy AD is like ezreal, graves, tristana or corki you know you won't have any fun at all. Goddamn jumps.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
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