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On September 18 2012 07:34 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
I think the big problem with trist is that her steroid doesn't refresh Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Biggest problem with Trist is how unresponsive her jump is.
Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
The jump is completely counter-intuitive on Trist, it forces bad plays to be made from players because people think it does more damage than it actually does. And now, you're just backpaddling. You explicitly said how you felt about her problems, changed your mind 3 posts later and then randomly threw in stuff about her jump, the two biggest arguments being that it's not responsive (while the actual problem is that it's technically a dash) and that people think it does more damage than it does, hence forcing people to make bad plays. Now, all of a sudden, her problem is the lack of steroid presence mid game, which is also wrong because her steroid gets maxed out mid game, it's not stronger or weaker than at level 18, what she lacks is the items to fully utilize it. I'm sorry dude, it's just that if you don't have anything to contribute, don't just post for the sake of posting. Nothing terrible about being wrong, it's only human, but you literally had three different opinions in three posts now and that's just silly.
Steroid Maxing out in mid game O.o? I was under impression R>W>Q>E? Mid game starts around lvl 6~ends about lvl13, where dragons and barons become more apparent objectives. (at least that's my definition of mid game).
In context in my quote it was specific to talking in reference to the holy trinity (corki/ez/graves) as to why she doesn't match up to them.
then the unresponsive jump was when the conversation shifted to tristana-centric problems, not in reference to holy trinity of AD's
Counter intuitiveness of her jump just makes bad players make bad decisions, not that this is a problem, but this is just a side issue.
It's only real value as a damage dealer is during lane phase, where you're allowed a lot more leniency in going balls deep just for the needed burst dps in 2v2 engagements, or the occasional 3v3/3v2 engagement. The change in meta to a more midcentric teamfighting games, where 5v5's happen way earlier and often in midgame has shifted how Tristana mechanics should be functioning. So people who maxed jump first, for the strong early game in lane, all of sudden find themselves completely fucking useless in midgame because they can't jump in on someone without getting blown up. Look at Ez, graves and corki, they can all do front loaded damage from a safe zone, so their midgame is preserved with strong burst/damage. Tristana lacks in this department, ability to do burst in a safe zone in midgame.
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What do you guys think of Trist top?
Good anti-sustain, good range, good escape, good burst. Pretty hard to gank post-6.
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Not agile enough. You either W away and get zoned for 20 seconds or you get crushed for more than you can trade.
On September 18 2012 07:42 Promises wrote:
To be honest, at the moment I feel that the 3 big AD's atm just have way to much burst damage early on. This is why they outclass the other AD's so badly, they have caster'ish amounts of burst combined with a generally good skillset and a good escape. I think if they tone down the burst till at least later game it should be a lot more balanced.
Stop calling it the "big 3." It's the "big 2" if anything: Ezreal and Corki. Both have enormous burst and faceroll get out of jail free cards and never fall off.
The way to fixing Ezreal involves nerfing his lane burst, especially pre-7, raising the CD on E, and nerfing his passive and/or W passive.
Corki nerfs probably involve E shredding less, rank 1 missiles dealing less damage (specifically the big one), and his W range going down 125-150.
Graves is still decent, but pales in comparison to Ezreal and Corki.
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The main problem with carry right now is that only the carry with easy escape are played, and the other are (rightfully) judged as weak because they can be ganked way easier.
So there is quite a lack of diversity - not to mention that, like almost every lane, when you take a carry that is not used in tournament you are like a failure even before the start of the game. Like Draven is not bad, but every time someone takes it, the team can't stop themselves from thinking "it's not a real hero".
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On September 18 2012 07:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The main problem with carry right now is that only the carry with easy escape are played, and the other are (rightfully) judged as weak because they can be ganked way easier.
So there is quite a lack of diversity - not to mention that, like almost every lane, when you take a carry that is not used in tournament you are like a failure even before the start of the game. Like Draven is not bad, but every time someone takes it, the team can't stop themselves from thinking "it's not a real hero".
AD Carries are in a fine balance, each have their own power curve and niche, just because the meta doesn't fit the role for every AD doesn't mean there's something wrong with the balance of AD carries.
I've also found it how weirdly strong AD carries have become in this game, or more so how AD carry centric it has become. Before Bruisers in top lane use to reign supreme, then it was AP mids~. Then all of a sudden lifesteal nerfs, AD carries become core feature in team! (pretty odd).
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On September 18 2012 07:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The main problem with carry right now is that only the carry with easy escape are played, and the other are (rightfully) judged as weak because they can be ganked way easier.
So there is quite a lack of diversity - not to mention that, like almost every lane, when you take a carry that is not used in tournament you are like a failure even before the start of the game. Like Draven is not bad, but every time someone takes it, the team can't stop themselves from thinking "it's not a real hero". AD Carries are in a fine balance, each have their own power curve and niche, just because the meta doesn't fit the role for every AD doesn't mean there's something wrong with the balance of AD carries. I've also found it how weirdly strong AD carries have become in this game, or more so how AD carry centric it has become. Before Bruisers in top lane use to reign supreme, then it was AP mids~. Then all of a sudden lifesteal nerfs, AD carries become core feature in team! (pretty odd).
AD carries have always been core. They've always been the most important role on your team.
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On September 18 2012 07:56 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:53 wei2coolman wrote:On September 18 2012 07:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The main problem with carry right now is that only the carry with easy escape are played, and the other are (rightfully) judged as weak because they can be ganked way easier.
So there is quite a lack of diversity - not to mention that, like almost every lane, when you take a carry that is not used in tournament you are like a failure even before the start of the game. Like Draven is not bad, but every time someone takes it, the team can't stop themselves from thinking "it's not a real hero". AD Carries are in a fine balance, each have their own power curve and niche, just because the meta doesn't fit the role for every AD doesn't mean there's something wrong with the balance of AD carries. I've also found it how weirdly strong AD carries have become in this game, or more so how AD carry centric it has become. Before Bruisers in top lane use to reign supreme, then it was AP mids~. Then all of a sudden lifesteal nerfs, AD carries become core feature in team! (pretty odd). AD carries have always been core. They've always been the most important role on your team.
Ad carries have been core in team comps to ensure a strong lategame, but they weren't necessarily core in midgame power.
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Its possible, though unlikely, to end game at midgame without the AD carry.
Lately, Ive grown to hate Gragas. His burst is so ridiculous and his mobility too. His farming ability is also ridiculous, possibly unmatched.
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Syndra's W:
apparently it's not simply an animation, the trailing object moves toward the target point and deals damage upon arrival. As it's not simply a particle but a physical object, it seems like it has glitches when going through other objects.
Namely, I've had several occurrences where I wanted to cast ahead of me, with the object trailing in such a way that it would go "above" a tower on the way. In those cases the object simply dropped in front of or besides the turret, instead of where I casted. It has happened several times, but it doesn't seem to interact this way with "walls" (mainly tried on trees in the jungle).
When you cast where the item is trailing, it just falls there too. Since it "follows" you, I wonder if there are micro tricks to shorten its travel time by making Syndra face such an angle that the item is closer to your target right before you cast (it doesn't seem to move when you turn, unless you then move out of its "leash range", so I guess I'll experiment with grabbing something while presenting the front or the back to it ; in this case it'll probably not work if she turns to face whatever she grabs before casting).
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On September 18 2012 08:06 XenOmega wrote:
Its possible, though unlikely, to end game at midgame without the AD carry.
Lately, Ive grown to hate Gragas. His burst is so ridiculous and his mobility too. His farming ability is also ridiculous, possibly unmatched.
and then there was twisted fate
really though the only thing gragas has over TF is a low cd jump
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On September 18 2012 08:22 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 08:06 XenOmega wrote:
Its possible, though unlikely, to end game at midgame without the AD carry.
Lately, Ive grown to hate Gragas. His burst is so ridiculous and his mobility too. His farming ability is also ridiculous, possibly unmatched. and then there was twisted fate really though the only thing gragas has over TF is a low cd jump
Uh, Gragas ult is really disruptive. Pretty much the main reason you pick Gragas is for his ult. TF's awesome and all but Gragas ult is one of the best team fight skills in the game imo.
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It's like a Janna ult that you can place at range and that does a thousand damage.
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On September 18 2012 07:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:50 WhiteDog wrote:
The main problem with carry right now is that only the carry with easy escape are played, and the other are (rightfully) judged as weak because they can be ganked way easier.
So there is quite a lack of diversity - not to mention that, like almost every lane, when you take a carry that is not used in tournament you are like a failure even before the start of the game. Like Draven is not bad, but every time someone takes it, the team can't stop themselves from thinking "it's not a real hero". AD Carries are in a fine balance, each have their own power curve and niche, just because the meta doesn't fit the role for every AD doesn't mean there's something wrong with the balance of AD carries. I've also found it how weirdly strong AD carries have become in this game, or more so how AD carry centric it has become. Before Bruisers in top lane use to reign supreme, then it was AP mids~. Then all of a sudden lifesteal nerfs, AD carries become core feature in team! (pretty odd).
Yes and no, you definitly have an edge when you can flash/dash every 15 to 30 s. Aside from that, yeah most carries are pretty balanced.
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AD carries were core in teams long before lifesteal nerfs. The lifesteal nerfs were largely directed at AD in the first place.
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On September 18 2012 07:46 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:34 Shiv. wrote:On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
I think the big problem with trist is that her steroid doesn't refresh On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Biggest problem with Trist is how unresponsive her jump is.
On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
The jump is completely counter-intuitive on Trist, it forces bad plays to be made from players because people think it does more damage than it actually does. And now, you're just backpaddling. You explicitly said how you felt about her problems, changed your mind 3 posts later and then randomly threw in stuff about her jump, the two biggest arguments being that it's not responsive (while the actual problem is that it's technically a dash) and that people think it does more damage than it does, hence forcing people to make bad plays. Now, all of a sudden, her problem is the lack of steroid presence mid game, which is also wrong because her steroid gets maxed out mid game, it's not stronger or weaker than at level 18, what she lacks is the items to fully utilize it. I'm sorry dude, it's just that if you don't have anything to contribute, don't just post for the sake of posting. Nothing terrible about being wrong, it's only human, but you literally had three different opinions in three posts now and that's just silly. Steroid Maxing out in mid game O.o? I was under impression R>W>Q>E? Mid game starts around lvl 6~ends about lvl13, where dragons and barons become more apparent objectives. (at least that's my definition of mid game).In context in my quote it was specific to talking in reference to the holy trinity (corki/ez/graves) as to why she doesn't match up to them. then the unresponsive jump was when the conversation shifted to tristana-centric problems, not in reference to holy trinity of AD's Counter intuitiveness of her jump just makes bad players make bad decisions, not that this is a problem, but this is just a side issue. It's only real value as a damage dealer is during lane phase, where you're allowed a lot more leniency in going balls deep just for the needed burst dps in 2v2 engagements, or the occasional 3v3/3v2 engagement. The change in meta to a more midcentric teamfighting games, where 5v5's happen way earlier and often in midgame has shifted how Tristana mechanics should be functioning. So people who maxed jump first, for the strong early game in lane, all of sudden find themselves completely fucking useless in midgame because they can't jump in on someone without getting blown up. Look at Ez, graves and corki, they can all do front loaded damage from a safe zone, so their midgame is preserved with strong burst/damage. Tristana lacks in this department, ability to do burst in a safe zone in midgame.
Imo the real weakness of trist is when W hits rank 5 and then untill she gets PD+IE and Q rank 4-5 she has a very drastic power-curve change. The transition from AP burst in lane to auto-attacking and lol stomping seems so hard to reach when you compare her to ezreal/corki.
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On September 18 2012 08:41 Craton wrote:
AD carries were core in teams long before lifesteal nerfs. The lifesteal nerfs were largely directed at AD in the first place.
Well yeah, AD carries were always core, what I meant was that we've been seeing higher kill counts on AD's, where it's not uncommon to see a legendary AD Carry in midgame, and completely carry the team before the 35min count, in tourney play. Before it use to be AD carries were chosen for their late game presence, now they're chosen for strong midgame presence.
Though you're probably right on the fact that the trend was happening, and life steal nerfs hit, and trend continued.
On September 18 2012 08:50 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:46 wei2coolman wrote:On September 18 2012 07:34 Shiv. wrote:On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
I think the big problem with trist is that her steroid doesn't refresh On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Biggest problem with Trist is how unresponsive her jump is.
On September 18 2012 07:17 wei2coolman wrote:
The jump is completely counter-intuitive on Trist, it forces bad plays to be made from players because people think it does more damage than it actually does. And now, you're just backpaddling. You explicitly said how you felt about her problems, changed your mind 3 posts later and then randomly threw in stuff about her jump, the two biggest arguments being that it's not responsive (while the actual problem is that it's technically a dash) and that people think it does more damage than it does, hence forcing people to make bad plays. Now, all of a sudden, her problem is the lack of steroid presence mid game, which is also wrong because her steroid gets maxed out mid game, it's not stronger or weaker than at level 18, what she lacks is the items to fully utilize it. I'm sorry dude, it's just that if you don't have anything to contribute, don't just post for the sake of posting. Nothing terrible about being wrong, it's only human, but you literally had three different opinions in three posts now and that's just silly. Steroid Maxing out in mid game O.o? I was under impression R>W>Q>E? Mid game starts around lvl 6~ends about lvl13, where dragons and barons become more apparent objectives. (at least that's my definition of mid game).In context in my quote it was specific to talking in reference to the holy trinity (corki/ez/graves) as to why she doesn't match up to them. then the unresponsive jump was when the conversation shifted to tristana-centric problems, not in reference to holy trinity of AD's Counter intuitiveness of her jump just makes bad players make bad decisions, not that this is a problem, but this is just a side issue. It's only real value as a damage dealer is during lane phase, where you're allowed a lot more leniency in going balls deep just for the needed burst dps in 2v2 engagements, or the occasional 3v3/3v2 engagement. The change in meta to a more midcentric teamfighting games, where 5v5's happen way earlier and often in midgame has shifted how Tristana mechanics should be functioning. So people who maxed jump first, for the strong early game in lane, all of sudden find themselves completely fucking useless in midgame because they can't jump in on someone without getting blown up. Look at Ez, graves and corki, they can all do front loaded damage from a safe zone, so their midgame is preserved with strong burst/damage. Tristana lacks in this department, ability to do burst in a safe zone in midgame. Imo the real weakness of trist is when W hits rank 5 and then untill she gets PD+IE and Q rank 4-5 she has a very drastic power-curve change. The transition from AP burst in lane to auto-attacking and lol stomping seems so hard to reach when you compare her to ezreal/corki.
Yeah, that's what I was going for in terms of mentioning how her skill leveling works.
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Do you have featured games to spectate? It seems like it's down on EUW atm.
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Is there a list of abilities taht have no animation delay? like orianas abilities, aris w, etc
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
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EPT
