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The best way to improve your elo according to my own experience (so it's not much) is not thinking about elo but playing a ton to get better. Your elo will go up and down, eventually wayyyyyy down, but you will get better and with that it can only go up.
At least that's how I grinded ladder in wc3 and sc2 (it's easier when you have an account where the stats don't matter :D), but it's still more difficult to be consitent in lol considering one game last for a fucking hour.
The simple idea that you need that +10-14 elo because you want to reach that fucking 1500 tonight is like the worst possible idea you can possibly have. Also releaving yourself from the stress of winning / losing is a good way to play your best.
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Yeah but the thing is you guys doing really well AND your teammate leaving/afking etc happens really rarely but you probably don't do that well most of the games that when you are doing well you "expect" to win. Similar to getting pocket aces and poker and losing to some clown with J/10 or something it happens really rarely but if you aren't winning the majority of your hands with more normal hands than when you get "your big break" it's seems really unfair when you don't win.
The high elo guys or elo boosters almost always have a few losses when they carried ridiculously hard. However they won every other game and the guy at a stable elo is only winning 50/50 of those games and gets super pissed when he loses that one game where he carries and loses anyway.
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Is there some good League to watch?
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On September 27 2012 05:15 WhiteDog wrote:
The best way to improve your elo according to my own experience (so it's not much) is not thinking about elo but playing a ton to get better. Your elo will go up and down, eventually wayyyyyy down, but you will get better and with that it can only go up.
At least that's how I grinded ladder in wc3 and sc2 (it's easier when you have an account where the stats don't matter :D), but it's still more difficult to be consitent in lol considering one game last for a fucking hour.
The simple idea that you need that +10-14 elo because you want to reach that fucking 1500 tonight is like the worst possible idea you can possibly have. Also releaving yourself from the stress of winning / losing is a good way to play your best.
your games last for an hour? Mine typically last 20-40 mins
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On September 27 2012 05:19 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:15 WhiteDog wrote:
The best way to improve your elo according to my own experience (so it's not much) is not thinking about elo but playing a ton to get better. Your elo will go up and down, eventually wayyyyyy down, but you will get better and with that it can only go up.
At least that's how I grinded ladder in wc3 and sc2 (it's easier when you have an account where the stats don't matter :D), but it's still more difficult to be consitent in lol considering one game last for a fucking hour.
The simple idea that you need that +10-14 elo because you want to reach that fucking 1500 tonight is like the worst possible idea you can possibly have. Also releaving yourself from the stress of winning / losing is a good way to play your best. your games last for an hour? Mine typically last 20-40 mins
Considering the queue, the picks, yeah like one hour, at least for the games that matter. The 20 min games (which mean easy surrending) are good for elo but doesn't give much for your own improvement.
What I was meaning is that it's hard to get better at something because you can't do it a lot in a short amount of time. Like in SC2 if you have problem versus a specific all in, you just do 10 games in a row and you eventually get the feeling to pass through. In LOL if your problem is that you need to train mid laning against a specific champion, well good luck just having the right spot, then the right opponent, and then the laning phase is like only half of the game so...
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On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those? He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you.. ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5 This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you. In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match. Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not. /streamofconciousness i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal. solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.
A better analogy would be Mahjong though. In Mahjong you can't fold, and bluffing is close to impossible as well. You will get bad hands, and you expect to get bad hands. The better player is the one who can push the good hands to success and win a solid amount of the mediocre hands.
Same for LoL, the better players don't throw games with good allies, and push somewhat even games to victory. You HAVE influence on the game, and the distibution of baddies is totally random.
Also even pros lose to baddies in Mahjong at times.
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You can use the picks and ban phase and loading screen to analysis teamcomps and game strats/team plan. You can use the queue after game to go through all your deaths and key points of the last game in your head. You don't have to waste any time if you don't want to. It takes longer per game but that's true for everyone, so in terms of improving it doesn't make a difference.
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On September 27 2012 05:22 Slayer91 wrote:
You can use the picks and ban phase and loading screen to analysis teamcomps and game strats/team plan. You can use the queue after game to go through all your deaths and key points of the last game in your head. You don't have to waste any time if you don't want to. It takes longer per game but that's true for everyone, so in terms of improving it doesn't make a difference.
That's true I never thought of that, I'm not the type that really think a lot during bans and picks.
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People were complaining earlier during the "Pro" ARAM Tourney yesterday that they were all feeders. This really just means that the level of aggression they were using is not appropriate for that form of LoL. In SoloQ, the same applies. "ELOHell" is where bad players are over aggressive, and feed players who are slightly better. Above that is players that learned caution, then really good players are ones who re-learned aggression, but smart aggression instead of Herp-Derp 900 ELO Aggro.
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On September 27 2012 05:06 Glaceau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those? He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you.. ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5 This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you. In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match. Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not. /streamofconciousness i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal. solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline. That logic does not always hold up, though, and I'll always blatantly refuse to believe it. Take for example a game I had about a week back (stood out for some reason). Playing jungle Hecarim, I hit level 2, decide that farming the jungle is for pansies, and start ganking like mad. We're 6-0 in the next 4 minutes or so, and I'm 2-0-4. It's obvious that these people don't know how to ward or play safe against an aggressive jungler, they're always overextended and what not. However, that doesn't matter, because Fizz ends up dumping on our Ryze to the tune of 3 kills despite me swinging in for a gank every time I pass by. The enemy Graves gets ~5 kills on bot lane because our support Shen (also might have something to do with it) never joined a fight and never taunted more than one target at a time (usually Leona). So while I'm outjungling the enemy Olaf, getting kills every time I show up, and am able to 1v1 anyone for the first ~10 minutes of the game, it didn't matter because Graves had a PD and BT and Fizz had a DC before I could finish anything worthwhile (had Sheen, Reverie, Boots, and parts of GA), and could nuke me instantly without my team being able to follow up on me ulting the entire team. I could outplay all of them, but fed players are still fed, even if you're a better mechanical player. You're telling me you've never had a game where you can tell you're better than one of your enemies, but it doesn't matter because they're fed to hell and back again? I doubt that very, very much. 30 is a typical amount of participants you might find in an experiment and thats how many games I played. http://www.lolking.net/search?name=mundosolomidhttp://www.lolking.net/search?name=insomniacchickenwhen you are 1v5ing you dont need a team, played pretty much every role too so I dont think that matters either
People need to look at this. He's not even exclusively playing hypercarries to win these games (he's got games as taric and sona in there). (Out of curiosity who is the third friend? You only gave two links)
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Finally hit silver! 1153 Elo :D
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What are your thoughts on the rengar khazix lv16 quest?
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On September 27 2012 05:30 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:06 Glaceau wrote:On September 27 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those? He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you.. ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5 This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you. In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match. Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not. /streamofconciousness i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal. solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline. That logic does not always hold up, though, and I'll always blatantly refuse to believe it. Take for example a game I had about a week back (stood out for some reason). Playing jungle Hecarim, I hit level 2, decide that farming the jungle is for pansies, and start ganking like mad. We're 6-0 in the next 4 minutes or so, and I'm 2-0-4. It's obvious that these people don't know how to ward or play safe against an aggressive jungler, they're always overextended and what not. However, that doesn't matter, because Fizz ends up dumping on our Ryze to the tune of 3 kills despite me swinging in for a gank every time I pass by. The enemy Graves gets ~5 kills on bot lane because our support Shen (also might have something to do with it) never joined a fight and never taunted more than one target at a time (usually Leona). So while I'm outjungling the enemy Olaf, getting kills every time I show up, and am able to 1v1 anyone for the first ~10 minutes of the game, it didn't matter because Graves had a PD and BT and Fizz had a DC before I could finish anything worthwhile (had Sheen, Reverie, Boots, and parts of GA), and could nuke me instantly without my team being able to follow up on me ulting the entire team. I could outplay all of them, but fed players are still fed, even if you're a better mechanical player. You're telling me you've never had a game where you can tell you're better than one of your enemies, but it doesn't matter because they're fed to hell and back again? I doubt that very, very much. 30 is a typical amount of participants you might find in an experiment and thats how many games I played. http://www.lolking.net/search?name=mundosolomidhttp://www.lolking.net/search?name=insomniacchickenwhen you are 1v5ing you dont need a team, played pretty much every role too so I dont think that matters either People need to look at this. He's not even exclusively playing hypercarries to win these games (he's got games as taric and sona in there). (Out of curiosity who is the third friend? You only gave two links)
Why would you? You don't need to 1v5 to carry a game. Trying to 1v5 loses games. You just need to win 5v5. If you perform your role to a level than outforms the counterpart and stifles their other roles, it's very easy to win a game. Supports do a lot more to win a lane than an AD does and taric and sona can carry their AD and crush the opposing bot lane. Tanks can stifle the enemy ap and ad carry if you played well and got farmed up to that point and if their damage isn't being effective it's very hard to lose a teamfight.
A "hypercarry" can't exactly do much against fed assassiny guys anyway, "hypercarries" rely on people "ignoring them" or in other words being distracted by your team enough that can you start picking guys off one by one. If you can be that distraction and in a bruiser//tank case you can even get kills if you're farmed as well as be unkillable you can the same work.
Heck even supports do so much work if you are well farmed.
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I certainly don´t believe in ELO hell but I´m not so sure playing and not caring about ELO works for me.
I tried really hard for the Janna skin and managed to peak at 1460 ELO. I went up and down around 1430 for a while then got a massive losing streak. I started playing just for fun without caring about ELO while still trying to win, now I´m at 1280 ELO. Honestly it might just be an extended loss streak due to some bad luck but that seems unlikely. Playing with a real goal (even just an imaginiary number) can make people play better.
I´m pretty much done with ranked for this season though partly because there is no chance of getting the Janna skin at this point and if I see another "omg noob why no ban morgana gg" I´m gonna bury my fist in my monitor.
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obviously no one can straight up 1v5 the enemy team by themselves unless the enemy team runs into you one at a time or something. you can still carry the game really hard by doing whatever your job is really well
if you have to support then you peel for your AD as much as possible
if you AP then you kill their squishies and gank a lot early/mid game
top + jungle dive + kill their ad and you probably win the fight
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you can dive carries with supports well. People dont expect flash ult q power chord from sona or taric stun w ult, especially if these are 1400 elo guys who aren't that aware of possible threads. It's all situational, teamfighting is something most people seem to be terrible at and you just need to figure it out yourself because of the massive amounts of variables there.
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On September 27 2012 06:15 Slayer91 wrote:
you can dive carries with supports well. People dont expect flash ult q power chord from sona or taric stun w ult, especially if these are 1400 elo guys who aren't that aware of possible threads. It's all situational, teamfighting is something most people seem to be terrible at and you just need to figure it out yourself because of the massive amounts of variables there.
Feel like positionning is half of the job in team fights still, especially when you play carry, and positionning is almost all about vision (warding) and initiate. That's a thing I have a lot of problem to figure out, do I follow a mate in what I see as a bad initiate ? Do I just leave them be ?
Also I feel sad for you Hankafrog !
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On September 27 2012 06:20 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 06:15 Slayer91 wrote:
you can dive carries with supports well. People dont expect flash ult q power chord from sona or taric stun w ult, especially if these are 1400 elo guys who aren't that aware of possible threads. It's all situational, teamfighting is something most people seem to be terrible at and you just need to figure it out yourself because of the massive amounts of variables there. Feel like positionning is half of the job in team fights still, especially when you play carry, and positionning is almost all about vision (warding) and initiate. That's a thing I have a lot of problem to figure out, do I follow a mate in what I see as a bad initiate ? Do I just leave them be ?
Leave. If it's a really bad initiate, following in someone who is going to die is going to just give the enemy team a second kill. If you know for sure it's bad, just tell your buddy to fall back and go away yourself.
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Always do the best thing in the situation. If it's a bad initiate it will show very clearly meaning if you didn't commit hard to it you'll be able to get away alive, and if they made mistakes you can still win the teamfight. If they initiate hard just don't use your skills to follow, just use your poke or ranged to hit their tanks or something and then leave him to die when he insta dies.
Positioning isn't really about where you stand but when you choose to go on and what targets you choose. Shooting a tank as a carry can be both really risky as in risk dying or also be too conservative when you should be going for other targets, it all depends on the skills their team has used and what your team is doing. You have to judge it situation by situation yourself.
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If I had a dollah for everytime I lost a teamfight because the tank/bruiser chases the low-hp support around half the map instead of peeling or being otherwise useful, I'd be a rich man indeed.
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EPT
