• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:33
CEST 00:33
KST 07:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202534Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder9EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced50BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Serral wins EWC 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Classic: "It's a thick wall to break through to become world champ" Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup Weeklies and Monthlies Info Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Scmdraft 2 - 0.9.0 Preview [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 633 users

[Patch 1.0.0.147: Syndra] General Discussion - Page 200

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 198 199 200 201 202 206 Next
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 19:44:26
September 26 2012 19:43 GMT
#3981
GP such an annoying top for any melee

also, you guys think they're going to patch out the ping trick? seems kinda cheap to me...
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 26 2012 19:44 GMT
#3982
On September 27 2012 04:43 IMoperator wrote:
GP such an annoying top for any melee

Not for Jayce, Darius, Rengar...
It's your boy Guzma!
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
September 26 2012 19:44 GMT
#3983
On September 27 2012 04:44 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:43 IMoperator wrote:
GP such an annoying top for any melee

Not for Jayce, Darius, Rengar...

Jayce isn't really melee, and Darius+Rengar are Darius and Rengar lol.
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
September 26 2012 19:44 GMT
#3984
On September 27 2012 04:44 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:43 IMoperator wrote:
GP such an annoying top for any melee

Not for Jayce, Darius, Rengar...


Or Tanky Shyvana or Riven that makes good use of shield.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 26 2012 19:47 GMT
#3985
Come to think of it, I doubt Olaf would have much of an issue with him either.

I think Olaf is one of the scariest bruisers to see nowadays for some reason. A well played one that can land axes, manage abilities, and builds correctly is absolutely terrifying to me for some reason.
It's your boy Guzma!
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
September 26 2012 19:47 GMT
#3986
panth is also melee.
Carrilord has arrived.
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
September 26 2012 19:48 GMT
#3987
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
September 26 2012 19:48 GMT
#3988
max W etc
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Glaceau
Profile Joined February 2012
Wales333 Posts
September 26 2012 19:53 GMT
#3989
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.
Cmon, swing it
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
September 26 2012 19:55 GMT
#3990
On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.


Clearly none of those games had a player on your team that was sufficiently bad to offset your contribution.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
September 26 2012 19:56 GMT
#3991
I am tempted to try Phreak's mid Soraka build knowing full well that it's probably pretty bad.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 20:02:29
September 26 2012 20:02 GMT
#3992
Don't really think Irelia would have major issue with GP either. Or Udyr. Or Renekton. Come to think of it... we've listed off over 50% of common top laners at this point... So what melees are you actually referring to that GP is annoying to?
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
September 26 2012 20:02 GMT
#3993
You guys are overthinking this WAY too much you just play the best you can and focus on improving what you can improve (which is EVERYTHING in your game) you forget about the rest. I swear if half if you guys put the same effort you did in improving as you did in justifying why you lose in solo q you'd all by like 200+ elo higher
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 26 2012 20:03 GMT
#3994
On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.

That logic does not always hold up, though, and I'll always blatantly refuse to believe it. Take for example a game I had about a week back (stood out for some reason). Playing jungle Hecarim, I hit level 2, decide that farming the jungle is for pansies, and start ganking like mad. We're 6-0 in the next 4 minutes or so, and I'm 2-0-4. It's obvious that these people don't know how to ward or play safe against an aggressive jungler, they're always overextended and what not. However, that doesn't matter, because Fizz ends up dumping on our Ryze to the tune of 3 kills despite me swinging in for a gank every time I pass by. The enemy Graves gets ~5 kills on bot lane because our support Shen (also might have something to do with it) never joined a fight and never taunted more than one target at a time (usually Leona).

So while I'm outjungling the enemy Olaf, getting kills every time I show up, and am able to 1v1 anyone for the first ~10 minutes of the game, it didn't matter because Graves had a PD and BT and Fizz had a DC before I could finish anything worthwhile (had Sheen, Reverie, Boots, and parts of GA), and could nuke me instantly without my team being able to follow up on me ulting the entire team. I could outplay all of them, but fed players are still fed, even if you're a better mechanical player.

You're telling me you've never had a game where you can tell you're better than one of your enemies, but it doesn't matter because they're fed to hell and back again? I doubt that very, very much.
It's your boy Guzma!
Glaceau
Profile Joined February 2012
Wales333 Posts
September 26 2012 20:03 GMT
#3995
On September 27 2012 04:55 NEOtheONE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.


Clearly none of those games had a player on your team that was sufficiently bad to offset your contribution.


this is probably sarcastic but the hardest game was definitely a game where our bot got double killed right at the beginning so our mid zyra afked. I had to both jungle as skarner and hold mid at the same time but we eventually pulled it off due to the bad positioning of low elo making for some easy game ending pulls.
Cmon, swing it
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 20:06:54
September 26 2012 20:04 GMT
#3996
As for forming teams what you'll find is the large majority of solo queue players who complain about solo queue are so used to blaming other people instead of looking to see what they did wrong that you won't be able to get any better.or at least not significant enough to justify having to play with the same guys all the time

you hear all the talk about people saying 1600 players who play together a lot will beat 2200 solo queue teams but it's never happenedm the only good teams are formed by people who are good players and the that way you have a better idea of whether the team work team comp etc was off a lot or it was mostly individual mistakes and the teamcomp/teamwork was mostly alright.
Glaceau
Profile Joined February 2012
Wales333 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 20:08:04
September 26 2012 20:06 GMT
#3997
On September 27 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.

That logic does not always hold up, though, and I'll always blatantly refuse to believe it. Take for example a game I had about a week back (stood out for some reason). Playing jungle Hecarim, I hit level 2, decide that farming the jungle is for pansies, and start ganking like mad. We're 6-0 in the next 4 minutes or so, and I'm 2-0-4. It's obvious that these people don't know how to ward or play safe against an aggressive jungler, they're always overextended and what not. However, that doesn't matter, because Fizz ends up dumping on our Ryze to the tune of 3 kills despite me swinging in for a gank every time I pass by. The enemy Graves gets ~5 kills on bot lane because our support Shen (also might have something to do with it) never joined a fight and never taunted more than one target at a time (usually Leona).

So while I'm outjungling the enemy Olaf, getting kills every time I show up, and am able to 1v1 anyone for the first ~10 minutes of the game, it didn't matter because Graves had a PD and BT and Fizz had a DC before I could finish anything worthwhile (had Sheen, Reverie, Boots, and parts of GA), and could nuke me instantly without my team being able to follow up on me ulting the entire team. I could outplay all of them, but fed players are still fed, even if you're a better mechanical player.

You're telling me you've never had a game where you can tell you're better than one of your enemies, but it doesn't matter because they're fed to hell and back again? I doubt that very, very much.


30 is a typical amount of participants you might find in an experiment and thats how many games I played.

http://www.lolking.net/search?name=mundosolomid
http://www.lolking.net/search?name=insomniacchicken

when you are 1v5ing you dont need a team, played pretty much every role too so I dont think that matters either
Cmon, swing it
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
September 26 2012 20:09 GMT
#3998
On September 27 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.

That logic does not always hold up, though, and I'll always blatantly refuse to believe it. Take for example a game I had about a week back (stood out for some reason). Playing jungle Hecarim, I hit level 2, decide that farming the jungle is for pansies, and start ganking like mad. We're 6-0 in the next 4 minutes or so, and I'm 2-0-4. It's obvious that these people don't know how to ward or play safe against an aggressive jungler, they're always overextended and what not. However, that doesn't matter, because Fizz ends up dumping on our Ryze to the tune of 3 kills despite me swinging in for a gank every time I pass by. The enemy Graves gets ~5 kills on bot lane because our support Shen (also might have something to do with it) never joined a fight and never taunted more than one target at a time (usually Leona).

So while I'm outjungling the enemy Olaf, getting kills every time I show up, and am able to 1v1 anyone for the first ~10 minutes of the game, it didn't matter because Graves had a PD and BT and Fizz had a DC before I could finish anything worthwhile (had Sheen, Reverie, Boots, and parts of GA), and could nuke me instantly without my team being able to follow up on me ulting the entire team. I could outplay all of them, but fed players are still fed, even if you're a better mechanical player.

You're telling me you've never had a game where you can tell you're better than one of your enemies, but it doesn't matter because they're fed to hell and back again? I doubt that very, very much.


So the problem with your example is that you are playing Hecarim and you don't carry very hard.

I mentioned this before: I was playing on a friend's account at 1100 Elo; because he had no AP runes I had to play AD with half a runepage. I played Caitlyn first, won the lane pretty much with one hand, but couldn't win the game because I couldn't carry very hard. It was very frustrating. Then I decided to play Vayne and went and won all 5 games I played with her - because it didn't matter if mid and top were combined 0-8, to me they were just cannon fodders and I carried everyone.

So yeah, it's very important to think what you are playing if you are way above the rest of your teammates/opponents' skill level.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 20:12:24
September 26 2012 20:10 GMT
#3999
On September 27 2012 05:03 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.

That logic does not always hold up, though, and I'll always blatantly refuse to believe it. Take for example a game I had about a week back (stood out for some reason). Playing jungle Hecarim, I hit level 2, decide that farming the jungle is for pansies, and start ganking like mad. We're 6-0 in the next 4 minutes or so, and I'm 2-0-4. It's obvious that these people don't know how to ward or play safe against an aggressive jungler, they're always overextended and what not. However, that doesn't matter, because Fizz ends up dumping on our Ryze to the tune of 3 kills despite me swinging in for a gank every time I pass by. The enemy Graves gets ~5 kills on bot lane because our support Shen (also might have something to do with it) never joined a fight and never taunted more than one target at a time (usually Leona).

So while I'm outjungling the enemy Olaf, getting kills every time I show up, and am able to 1v1 anyone for the first ~10 minutes of the game, it didn't matter because Graves had a PD and BT and Fizz had a DC before I could finish anything worthwhile (had Sheen, Reverie, Boots, and parts of GA), and could nuke me instantly without my team being able to follow up on me ulting the entire team. I could outplay all of them, but fed players are still fed, even if you're a better mechanical player.

You're telling me you've never had a game where you can tell you're better than one of your enemies, but it doesn't matter because they're fed to hell and back again? I doubt that very, very much.


Being better than your counterpart doesn't mean you deserve to win. Cleary fizz and graves were both better than their counterparts and from the looks of it if you got "nuked before your team could do anything" clearly you made bad engages and misjudged the situation just because you were fed doesn't make your team is fed and also doesn't mean they know you're going to engage. Also add the fact in despite all your ganking as the jungler somehow their mid and bot lane got fed and none of your teammates except you had any decent farm?

One specific thing I'll note is that ryze is slow and short ranged and can't follow up a hecarim initiate like you want from say a morgana or karthus or something. You have to play to your teamcomp.

Nobodies saying that you win every game that you play better than your counterpart role. Get that kind of score every game and see how many games you lose. Also even if you won that game some dude from the other team is posting in the shikyo thread about "my retard team never warded and kept feeding hecarim and he just dived on me every teamfight and I couldn't do anything #elo hell".
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
September 26 2012 20:10 GMT
#4000
On September 27 2012 05:03 Glaceau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2012 04:55 NEOtheONE wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:53 Glaceau wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:48 barbsq wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:35 Requizen wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:44 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
On September 27 2012 03:39 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah like every sport is a team game so what's the point of trying to get better at those?


He isn't saying that nobody should try to get better, he is saying that your ELO is a lot more dependent on what your team does in conjunction with you, not just you..

ELO was designed for 2 player games, not 5v5

This is pretty much on the nose. Solo queue is like poker, except you can't trade your cards out or bluff your way to a victory. Winning is, more often than not, decided not by who has the better players, but who has the least bad players. If both teams' respective best players are around the same skill level (which, if matchmaking works correctly, they should be), then the game is dictated by which one can get ahead the most, which generally equates to getting fed the most. And that is accomplished by playing against someone worse than you.

In short, even if you're the best player on your team, if the worst players on your team are worse than theirs, the enemy team will get fed and will likely win the game. Which is why solo queue, and to an extent duo queue, is a complete crapshoot as far as wins are concerned, you rarely, if ever, have any say in whether you win the match.

Solo queue is not about winning and getting ahead of the enemy, it's about not being the worst player and not letting the enemy get ahead. If everyone on your team had this mentality, your chances of victory would increase tenfold. However, they generally do not.

/streamofconciousness

i kinda understand your frustration, but i really don't think that's the right way to approach it. If your mentality is to not be the worst player then what ends up happening is you stop playing to get better and instead play to not get worse, which results in stagnation. I try to go into every game with the mentality that I am playing to try to be the best player in the game (and no, this doesn't necessarily mean the one with the highest kda) and to make improvements to further this goal.


solo queue is not like poker until you get to your true elo, you are forgetting that part. It has been proved countless times that it is really easy to climb up low elo if you're any good, I have already gotten 3 friends war hero janna on their accounts and went 10-0 on every one. If you are way better than everyone in the game its easy to 1v5. It isn't luck until you've hit your baseline.


Clearly none of those games had a player on your team that was sufficiently bad to offset your contribution.


this is probably sarcastic but the hardest game was definitely a game where our bot got double killed right at the beginning so our mid zyra afked. I had to both jungle as skarner and hold mid at the same time but we eventually pulled it off due to the bad positioning of low elo making for some easy game ending pulls.


I wasn't being sarcastic. Just that I've had games where I've gone 13-3 as Anivia and still lost due to a leaver (Akali rage quit in this particular game) and the enemy top had gotten a little fed off the Akali before the rage quit. The point is that you can only carry so hard because there is always a point where bad teammates will offset your skill.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Prev 1 198 199 200 201 202 206 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 298
ProTech42
StarCraft: Brood War
Zeus 187
ggaemo 160
firebathero 143
Aegong 40
Sexy 2
Dota 2
syndereN692
monkeys_forever70
League of Legends
Grubby3930
JimRising 437
Reynor80
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K671
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor280
Other Games
tarik_tv28780
gofns11274
summit1g10188
fl0m1020
shahzam428
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1517
StarCraft 2
angryscii 36
Other Games
BasetradeTV34
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH193
• davetesta40
• RyuSc2 28
• tFFMrPink 25
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 61
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22078
Other Games
• imaqtpie1354
• Shiphtur210
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 28m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
15h 28m
Bonyth vs TBD
WardiTV European League
17h 28m
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
HeRoMaRinE vs MaxPax
Wardi Open
1d 12h
OSC
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
HCC Europe
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CAC 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.