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[Patch 1.0.0.147: Syndra] General Discussion - Page 177

Forum Index > LoL General
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AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 20:23:48
September 24 2012 20:22 GMT
#3521
Nashor's is indeed a good item on ap teemo, u reach max cdr with DFG and since his e hits with autos is really nice, depends on enemy teamcomp though both lichbane and nashors are viable.

http://lol.sadowl.com/

I didnt actually know all of them.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
September 24 2012 20:28 GMT
#3522
On September 24 2012 23:04 Zenithal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 22:35 Cloud9157 wrote:
On September 24 2012 19:12 De4ngus wrote:
On September 24 2012 18:28 wei2coolman wrote:
It really depends on the laning phase though, or how the game flow is. But I feel much more comfortable getting philo+hog, into chalice, then finishing whatever item next (usually reverie).

sometimes laning phases are pretty aggressive, usually get kills, back, or shove lanes than backing, I'll delay getting chalice until after first big support item. but if lane phases are really extended, I either get 3rd gp10, or the chalice after hog.

lol 3rd gp10 you are real funny. are useful items not fun to buy or something? better waste gold on items that give no stats!


If what is happening as he described in his post, third gp/10 seems perfectly fine to me. If I find myself with stolen kills or a lot of assists, I always grab a pick and just sit on it all game. You lose philo stone eventually, so that way you should have the same gold intake as you would with just philo+hog until shurleya's, but for the entire game.

Oh hey look, gp10s again. Let's boil this down for the umpteen-millionth time.

Pro-gp10 outlook: give decent to good early game stats. Some are super cost effective (Philo) others not so much (HoG). They're good if you're going to be sitting in lane and farming instead of ever fighting or playing aggressively, since they give good laning stats like health, AP, and regen. Once they pay themselves off, which happens often in passive/longer games, they're good.

Anti-gp10 outlook: Bad to Horrid cost effectiveness outside of Philo. Take too long to pay themselves off, you can't trade in lane ever because the stats don't give enough to do so. Early game is too aggressive in most cases to ever be wothrwhile, only ever worth it if you're building something it builds out of later (DFG with Kage's or Bruta with Avarice).

I find myself in group 1, but I agree with group 2. I get them on champs that I'm going to be passive with (Bankplank, for example, some pure farm junglers though it's rare to play them, mids with weak early games where I'm not going to fight anyway), but wouldn't get them on lanes where I'm going to be fighting all the time (Riven or Darius for example, though I'll occasionally get HoG on either if they're being pansies and I can't fight at all).

---

Speaking of Riven, she's gotten kind of forgotten about recently, but a good one knocked me on my ass the other day and I remembered how strong she really is. Need to get her back in top lane again.


My post was directed at supports, not top lane/mid lane/jungle.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
JokerSan
Profile Joined April 2005
United States306 Posts
September 24 2012 20:38 GMT
#3523
I would stop building HoG on every single jungler if Randuins wasn't so OP.
LoL: Soles | forever 1600
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14208 Posts
September 24 2012 20:41 GMT
#3524
On September 25 2012 05:38 JokerSan wrote:
I would stop building HoG on every single jungler if Randuins wasn't so OP.


build wardens mail more its a wicked cheap wild effective item for when people think that attacking you as your running away from them is smart. then you turn around when they're effectively exhausted and then kill them.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
September 24 2012 20:44 GMT
#3525
On September 25 2012 04:46 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:22 azndsh wrote:
1) Carries want as much farm as possible, so very rarely does it make sense to give up gold to support (exceptions include getting philo stone or after carry has max items). If it were possible (such as wc3/sc2), most of the time supports would choose to transfer the gold they have to carries.

I don't agree with this though. It's a misconceived mentality that plagued DotA for years, until people finally figured out that support itemization is just as important as carry itemization. The carry needs more items to perform his role, but that doesn't make his item timings any stronger--you still want to line them up.

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:22 azndsh wrote:
2) gp10s give inferior stats, and item strength is multiplicative. getting PD + IE on two separate champs isn't nearly as effective as getting both on the same.

Multiplicative scaling only kicks in hard lategame though. With this huge trend toward midgame teamfighting carry selection, a lot of the relevant fighting occurs before multiplicative scaling really kicks in as an argument for stacking farm on carries (e.g. Ezzy or Corki fighting with just a Triforce). The high overall flat stat-gains of aura items can certainly outweigh that benefit throughout the midgame.

In a metagame dominated by 4+1 teamcomps like we had some time ago, I would agree, but 4+1 is hardly common anymore.

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 04:22 azndsh wrote:
3) Carries clear faster, so it costs the team more time overall to allocate farm to supports.

Depends on the support--a lot of the support pool actually has no problem at all clearing creep waves.


I think you are right with that observation. 4+1 is far less common. I'ven seen quite some games where either the jungler or top laner or both (depending on champs ofc), would build very tank/support oriented and spam wards and oracles along with the support. Double aegis is very common and you see alot of tripple shureilas as well. People realize that junglers are not carries and alot of top laners aren't either.

first the junglers started to get g/10 to keep up with the farm, then they realized that rushing shureilas and aegis is very powerful and actually useful and then spamming oracles and wards wasnt a bad idea as well since you roam around the map anyways. with having 2 healthy supports in the game instead of 1 halfassed carry and 1 starved support the teams look way stronger and more flexible. maybe it even becomes viable to split up the auras accordingly between junglers and babysitters.

you even see that in soloq now.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
September 24 2012 20:47 GMT
#3526
did the server just crash?
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
September 24 2012 20:47 GMT
#3527
Well, servers are blowing up I think. Keep dc'ing along with everyone else in a game zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
CrimsonLotus
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Colombia1123 Posts
September 24 2012 21:01 GMT
#3528


While cool, I have no idea what Riot was smoking when they introduce something like this into a competitive game...
444 444 444 444
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14208 Posts
September 24 2012 21:12 GMT
#3529
its just in the pbe for now. we'll see if they plan to include it in the final build when we get the patch for it. speaking of which when does everyone think that will be hapening?
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
CrimsonLotus
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Colombia1123 Posts
September 24 2012 21:14 GMT
#3530
Morello seems to be supporting it:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29592614#post29592614
444 444 444 444
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
September 24 2012 21:17 GMT
#3531
On September 25 2012 05:22 AsnSensation wrote:
http://lol.sadowl.com/

I didnt actually know all of them.

I got them all... probably not a good thing D:
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
September 24 2012 21:18 GMT
#3532
On September 25 2012 05:22 AsnSensation wrote:
Nashor's is indeed a good item on ap teemo, u reach max cdr with DFG and since his e hits with autos is really nice, depends on enemy teamcomp though both lichbane and nashors are viable.

http://lol.sadowl.com/

I didnt actually know all of them.

Too easy for me :D. I fail however at remembering what everyone's title is or the name of spells... now that shit is hard :<. Meh, i playthis game too much T_T
BW -> League -> CSGO
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 24 2012 21:19 GMT
#3533
I dunno. It'll be strong, sure, but I think it adds another layer of depth. Do you choose one champ into another and try to make your ally super strong? Do you ban out Rengar in case your Kha'Zix gets shut down and Rengar goes legendary? Later on, you can get nifty teamfights where you try to single out Kha'Zix to get Rengar his item, fun stuff like that.

It'll happen in like, 5% of games if that, leave it in imo.
It's your boy Guzma!
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
September 24 2012 21:23 GMT
#3534
The fact the Head of Kha'Zix gives full stacks right away seems particularly strong. If it just made it so Rengar didn't lose any of his already earned stacks upon death, that would seem more fair. Then again, that 4th evolutionary point is pretty strong on Kha'Zix. I'm really torn about this. This has the potential to affect the meta in a really interesting way. Think about champion select, deciding whether or not you want to pick Kha'Zix if they already have Rengar and the strategy involved there. Or more likely this will lead to one of the two being banned every game. But we have a while before this affects the competitive scene, considering Regar has a permaban at the World Championship
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
September 24 2012 21:26 GMT
#3535
On September 25 2012 06:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
The fact the Head of Kha'Zix gives full stacks right away seems particularly strong. If it just made it so Rengar didn't lose any of his already earned stacks upon death, that would seem more fair. Then again, that 4th evolutionary point is pretty strong on Kha'Zix. I'm really torn about this. This has the potential to affect the meta in a really interesting way. Think about champion select, deciding whether or not you want to pick Kha'Zix if they already have Rengar and the strategy involved there. Or more likely this will lead to one of the two being banned every game. But we have a while before this affects the competitive scene, considering Regar has a permaban at the World Championship


What I'm most angry about is that since November 2011 the number of bans has been 3/side, when the champion pool has expanded massively.
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 24 2012 21:31 GMT
#3536
Just curious if any TL'ers know of regular Asian tournaments/leagues with little to no English coverage (doing some research atm for a project)?

So far I got NiceGameTV, StarsWar League, and GArena. Is that seriously all 0_O?
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
September 24 2012 21:34 GMT
#3537
On September 25 2012 06:26 Doctorbeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 06:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
The fact the Head of Kha'Zix gives full stacks right away seems particularly strong. If it just made it so Rengar didn't lose any of his already earned stacks upon death, that would seem more fair. Then again, that 4th evolutionary point is pretty strong on Kha'Zix. I'm really torn about this. This has the potential to affect the meta in a really interesting way. Think about champion select, deciding whether or not you want to pick Kha'Zix if they already have Rengar and the strategy involved there. Or more likely this will lead to one of the two being banned every game. But we have a while before this affects the competitive scene, considering Regar has a permaban at the World Championship


What I'm most angry about is that since November 2011 the number of bans has been 3/side, when the champion pool has expanded massively.

I agree 100% that the number of picks and bans should be increased. I would actually prefer if they changed over to the Dota 2 style draft mode. Damn you Riot and your conviction to the casual audience influencing your decisions about high level play.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
September 24 2012 21:39 GMT
#3538
On September 25 2012 06:19 Requizen wrote:
I dunno. It'll be strong, sure, but I think it adds another layer of depth. Do you choose one champ into another and try to make your ally super strong? Do you ban out Rengar in case your Kha'Zix gets shut down and Rengar goes legendary? Later on, you can get nifty teamfights where you try to single out Kha'Zix to get Rengar his item, fun stuff like that.

It'll happen in like, 5% of games if that, leave it in imo.


It's nifty, but ultimately not all that game-changing. We've already discussed how the benefits of evolved W and evolved R are both highly situational, and almost any game where Rengar effectively gains more than 6 stacks from Kha'zix isn't a game where that's going to turn everything around.

Imagine if Udyr got another skill point for fighting Lee Sin at level 18 to establish martial arts supremacy; it sounds really impressive until you realize how little it actually impacts anything.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 21:44:34
September 24 2012 21:42 GMT
#3539
On September 25 2012 06:14 CrimsonLotus wrote:
Morello seems to be supporting it:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29592614#post29592614


Goddamn that is lame.

Haven't they hired anyone from mtg? This is like a classic example of what not to do. The example they typically use is something like

3RR
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Can't attack if opponent has a knight.
6/6

It's flavorful, it's cool to read, but it's terrible design because the condition is such a corner case.]

On September 25 2012 06:39 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 06:19 Requizen wrote:
I dunno. It'll be strong, sure, but I think it adds another layer of depth. Do you choose one champ into another and try to make your ally super strong? Do you ban out Rengar in case your Kha'Zix gets shut down and Rengar goes legendary? Later on, you can get nifty teamfights where you try to single out Kha'Zix to get Rengar his item, fun stuff like that.

It'll happen in like, 5% of games if that, leave it in imo.

Imagine if Udyr got another skill point for fighting Lee Sin at level 18 to establish martial arts supremacy; it sounds really impressive until you realize how little it actually impacts anything.


Wow that's even worse. These things need a reason to be in the game or we could just go down the list and draw up dozens of corner cases between champions. They already have interesting mechanical interactions, they're called abilities.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
September 24 2012 21:47 GMT
#3540
On September 25 2012 06:42 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 06:14 CrimsonLotus wrote:
Morello seems to be supporting it:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29592614#post29592614


Goddamn that is lame.

Haven't they hired anyone from mtg? This is like a classic example of what not to do. The example they typically use is something like

3RR
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Can't attack if opponent has a knight.
6/6

It's flavorful, it's cool to read, but it's terrible design because the condition is such a corner case.]

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 06:39 Seuss wrote:
On September 25 2012 06:19 Requizen wrote:
I dunno. It'll be strong, sure, but I think it adds another layer of depth. Do you choose one champ into another and try to make your ally super strong? Do you ban out Rengar in case your Kha'Zix gets shut down and Rengar goes legendary? Later on, you can get nifty teamfights where you try to single out Kha'Zix to get Rengar his item, fun stuff like that.

It'll happen in like, 5% of games if that, leave it in imo.

Imagine if Udyr got another skill point for fighting Lee Sin at level 18 to establish martial arts supremacy; it sounds really impressive until you realize how little it actually impacts anything.


Wow that's even worse. These things need a reason to be in the game or we could just go down the list and draw up dozens of corner cases between champions. They already have interesting mechanical interactions, they're called abilities.


What about super secret sideboard tech - WHITE KNIGHT?!!!!!!!

Honestly, I hate this interaction. It's just going to increase ragers, like whenever someone picks one into the other the team erupts in flames and there is a dodge.
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
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