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On September 22 2012 11:34 udgnim wrote:
after playing a lot of bot matches up to Lvl 14-15, I finally started playing Normal matches and then found out I need to be Lvl 30 to play Ranked matches
Lvl 30 is far off, but it's very apparent to me that I have a better feel for some heroes than others
my question is once I start playing ranked matches, should I have a set of heroes I'm comfortable with that can fulfill different roles?
for example, right now, I just play with the free heroes and wait to see what heroes my team picks then choose accordingly based on what role I think is lacking.
so if there is no ranged AD, I pick Miss Fortune. no ranged AP, Morgana. nothing tanky, Blitzcrank.
when starting to play ranked matches, is it better to be able to be diverse like above or play a specific role and stick with it to become better at that role and set of characters for that role?
You want to have a good grasp of the overall game, but it's fine to stay in a smaller range of roles to start ranked off with. While it's fine to recognize a weaker role you have, understanding the dynamics of the role and gaining the experience for it is very beneficial for future reference.
For the most part in ranked I personally feel it's more of a first come first serve kinda deal with jungler/support being the last two picked usually. This is usually because for most people top/mid/adcs are usually one of their preferred roles anyway and the best with which to impact the game.
When you get into ranked you can't use free of the week champs so you'll need to purchase the required 16, plus more if you want to make sure you have back-ups for every role incase of bans/picks. Ideally you should have a solid staple of 4-5 picks for each role to allow good flexibility with teammates. However learning one champ of each role isn't really bad for a learning process and can really help you gain good experience.
The important thing to note is to get a good gauge for your strengths and weaknesses while playing against others in any mode and learning from the experience. This will help you when you finally can play ranked matches and will allow adapt well to very niche scenarios that you can and will discover in the game.
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On September 22 2012 11:50 h3r1n6 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 11:38 iCanada wrote:On September 22 2012 11:34 udgnim wrote:
after playing a lot of bot matches up to Lvl 14-15, I finally started playing Normal matches and then found out I need to be Lvl 30 to play Ranked matches
Lvl 30 is far off, but it's very apparent to me that I have a better feel for some heroes than others
my question is once I start playing ranked matches, should I have a set of heroes I'm comfortable with that can fulfill different roles?
for example, right now, I just play with the free heroes and wait to see what heroes my team picks then choose accordingly based on what role I think is lacking.
so if there is no ranged AD, I pick Miss Fortune. no ranged AP, Morgana. nothing tanky, Blitzcrank.
when starting to play ranked matches, is it better to be able to be diverse like above or play a specific role and stick with it to become better at that role and set of characters for that role? You have the right idea. By the time you start playing ranked games you going to want to be able to play every role decently well. However, for now I'd just pick one champ you like and play them over and over because it reduces the burden of knowldge required to play well. I'd disagree. You should concentrate on one role instead of trying to get decent at everything. Playing just one champ over and over is fine, but I personally find that gets boring. Try to find a role you like most and focus on learning 1-5 champs for that role. You should learn another role in case you can't pick your main role in ranked. Learn support if you don't main it (otherwise learn jungle or something), because that is the one most likely left over and the least people play it. With one role+support you pretty much never have to play anything your are uncomfortable with anyway.
-.-
If I wasn't clear, thats what I meant. You want to be good at one role because thats the most efficient way to do hings, however you can't just be 100% unable to play Support/AD/Mid because then any game where you dont get first pick you instalose.
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That's why you should learn support. You can skip 3 roles if support is one of the two you play. Of course this changes when more players play support, but it's fine. Being really good at one role and being able to play support in addition to that (or being really good at support) and losing the 1-2% of games that you can't get your desired roles is better than doing average in every game (imo).
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On September 22 2012 12:04 h3r1n6 wrote:
That's why you should learn support. You can skip 3 roles if support is one of the two you play. Of course this changes when more players play support, but it's fine. Being really good at one role and being able to play support in addition to that (or being really good at support) and losing the 1-2% of games that you can't get your desired roles is better than doing average in every game (imo).
Being good at two roles is good and all, but completely ignoring the rest of the roles for learning their dynamics and interactions can cost you. Neglecting other aspects of the game can be detrimental and stop you from learning. You should never just take a 1-2% loss just because you got to a rating on two roles and suddenly couldn't play at the same level as you put yourself.
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Trust me that you don't want to end up as the guy who can only do one thing and sucks as everything else.
You can avoid one non-support role pretty easily, but anything beyond that is going to cost you games. Just play shit and lose until you get better at it. It's just Elo.
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On September 22 2012 12:29 Craton wrote:
Trust me that you don't want to end up as the guy who can only do one thing and sucks as everything else.
You can avoid one non-support role pretty easily, but anything beyond that is going to cost you games. Just play shit and lose until you get better at it. It's just Elo.
It's time as well...
I'd argue that a person who plays 2000 AD carry games and nothing else will be a better AD carry than one who plays 400 games with every role
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Problem is, it's not just Elo, it's also time. Sure, there are some skills that are useful for any role, but in general, the more time you spend with one, the better you get at it. Thus, if you play all roles the same amount of time, you will not be as good at them as if you play only 1-2 roles most of the time. Now, the question is of course what your goal is, but in my opinion, being good at 1-2 roles is better then being mediocre at all of them. Especially since you can get those 1-2 roles most of the time, as long as support as one of them.
I main jungler, and have support as my second role, and i can say that i almost always get one of those two. I get jungle in about 70-80% of my games, and support in nearly all of the rest. This only becomes a problem when duoing, since apparently you are ALWAYS 4th and 5th pick when you duo with someone with a similar elo.
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don't think i've ever felt as helpless as queueing into mogwai/shake/chrispy/neo/bly premade in arranged 5s and getting roflstomped into the ground
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Time shouldn't be much of an issue if you realize udgnim isn't 30 yet, doesn't have a large enough pool of champions and should be learning the different roles to figure out which one he really excels at.
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On September 22 2012 12:35 Simberto wrote:
Problem is, it's not just Elo, it's also time. Sure, there are some skills that are useful for any role, but in general, the more time you spend with one, the better you get at it. Thus, if you play all roles the same amount of time, you will not be as good at them as if you play only 1-2 roles most of the time. Now, the question is of course what your goal is, but in my opinion, being good at 1-2 roles is better then being mediocre at all of them. Especially since you can get those 1-2 roles most of the time, as long as support as one of them.
That's not how this game works.
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On September 22 2012 12:35 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 12:29 Craton wrote:
Trust me that you don't want to end up as the guy who can only do one thing and sucks as everything else.
You can avoid one non-support role pretty easily, but anything beyond that is going to cost you games. Just play shit and lose until you get better at it. It's just Elo. It's time as well... I'd argue that a person who plays 2000 AD carry games and nothing else will be a better AD carry than one who plays 400 games with every role
Of course this will be true, but is your goal to be a top level AD carry or a team player for some solo queue fun? It's all about priorities
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United States47024 Posts
On September 22 2012 12:35 Simberto wrote:
Problem is, it's not just Elo, it's also time. Sure, there are some skills that are useful for any role, but in general, the more time you spend with one, the better you get at it. Thus, if you play all roles the same amount of time, you will not be as good at them as if you play only 1-2 roles most of the time. Now, the question is of course what your goal is, but in my opinion, being good at 1-2 roles is better then being mediocre at all of them. Especially since you can get those 1-2 roles most of the time, as long as support as one of them.
I main jungler, and have support as my second role, and i can say that i almost always get one of those two. I get jungle in about 70-80% of my games, and support in nearly all of the rest. This only becomes a problem when duoing, since apparently you are ALWAYS 4th and 5th pick when you duo with someone with a similar elo.
You're overestimating how much game knowledge/skill in this game is role-specific. Until quite a high-level, aiming toward getting an overall understanding of how all the roles interact with one other throughout the game will advance your level of play much more than learning the nitty-gritty specifics of a single role. Even if your focus is on 1-2 roles primarily, the broad strokes understanding of how every other role plays will significantly impact how you perform on your "primary" role.
And yes, before someone else says it, I realize it's a bit hypocritical of me to say that given how long I've gone as almost exclusively playing jungle. That doesn't mean I don't regret it and I definitely feel it hurt my growth as a player to play that way in retrospect.
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On September 22 2012 09:17 cLutZ wrote:
Brand is almost nothing like Gragas. And why would people complain about skillshots with Ahri, morg, etc?
i'm just saying, that was the prevailing opinion. "brand's skillshots too unreliable."
that's what they said about gragas too. "his skillshots are too unreliable to be used at top level."
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United States47024 Posts
On September 22 2012 13:32 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 09:17 cLutZ wrote:
Brand is almost nothing like Gragas. And why would people complain about skillshots with Ahri, morg, etc? i'm just saying, that was the prevailing opinion. "brand's skillshots too unreliable." that's what they said about gragas too. "his skillshots are too unreliable to be used at top level."
That really doesn't have a whole lot to do with why people stopped playing Brand imo.
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I thought the reason people stopped playing Brand was cause his CC is shit. And he doesn't have the damage to make up for it.
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Gragas actually has very reliable skillshots, but he also has an AoE displacement that does 50% or more of enemy's hp, a free very low CD escape (this is biggest deal for lane phase), free mana, and a damage reduction buff.
While Brand does good damage, he has no escape and is hugely reliant on RNG ult bounces and creep waves can be used against him whereas Gragas just doesn't give a fuck.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 22 2012 13:35 overt wrote:
I thought the reason people stopped playing Brand was cause his CC is shit. And he doesn't have the damage to make up for it.
I think a lot of his power when he was 1st-pick status came from strong-arming people out of lane. And, well, he doesn't strong-arm people out of lane that hard anymore, among other things.
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On September 22 2012 12:35 Simberto wrote:
Problem is, it's not just Elo, it's also time. Sure, there are some skills that are useful for any role, but in general, the more time you spend with one, the better you get at it. Thus, if you play all roles the same amount of time, you will not be as good at them as if you play only 1-2 roles most of the time. Now, the question is of course what your goal is, but in my opinion, being good at 1-2 roles is better then being mediocre at all of them. Especially since you can get those 1-2 roles most of the time, as long as support as one of them.
I main jungler, and have support as my second role, and i can say that i almost always get one of those two. I get jungle in about 70-80% of my games, and support in nearly all of the rest. This only becomes a problem when duoing, since apparently you are ALWAYS 4th and 5th pick when you duo with someone with a similar elo.
I would argue that getting familiar with the other roles is really helpful regardless of whether you want to exclusively play jungle and support. Actually playing a bunch of AD carry really helped my support coordination. Playing top a bit gave me some additional insights on jungler ganks. Sometimes the fastest way to learn something is to look at it from the other side.
Also, the reason similar-elo duo queues always get 4th and 5th pick:
* There is at most one duo queue per team.
* Duo queues get a positive adjustment to their MMR due to them being more coordinated.
* They get matched with solo queuers of generally higher elo.
* Picks are done in order of decending elo.
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The cc isn't that good and the small 50 range nerf and like 10-20ish damage ended up making him unpopular D:
^brand
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When my team tries to force me to play support I just make up a new role and go roam as mundo or something.
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EPT
