On August 17 2012 04:16 jcarlsoniv wrote: Atma's is still a good item. It's just not the be all end all of tanky dps items like it was before.
The funny thing is a lot of "pros" like to say how it's such a shitty item and somehow it's "not cost efficient." lol It's like they don't understand basic math or simply never did it, and just say it because other "pros" say it.
My biggest issue with it is I usually want another item in that slot. There have been a lot of games where I could get it, but grab something else instead. Its very situational now, for me.
Let's say you have 2500HP and Atma's. For 2355 gold you get 45 armor, 18 critchance and 37.5 AD. Comparing it to Chain Vest, Cloak of Agility and B. T. Sword, armor costs 15.5, critchance 46.1 and AD costs 36.6. Which mean's Atma's gives 2905 gold worth of stats, while it's price is only 2355g! It's cost effectiveness is 123%!
Problem with that is, 123% cost efficiency isn't even that high, I mean it's pretty decent but other mid-cost items often have more (hello wit's end/hexdrinker) and high-cost items often have some OP active/passive (Randuins/FH if you want armor) and stuff.
Also, for a lot of champions critchance is a throwaway stat, because they rely a lot on skills that do not crit. Olaf for one, Jarvan too to a lesser extent I guess.
I don't always call shit OP just by seeing their kits, but when I do, it's this bitch.
I don't see how she can be OP unless her ratios are totally absurd. She can probably lane OK, but I bet she is a poor roamer due to one CC that is an AOE that only slows (W) and her R requires a set up.
Her roaming may be underwhelming as she needs time for setup with the orbs, but her zone control looks insane, and the ability to throw minions is not only a great harassment tool, but also allows you to manipulate lane flow without necessarily pushing. If she gets any time at all to set up orbs, shooting them like a shotgun and then throwing another one for a knock-up (max rank W) is pretty impressive AoE CC.
I think her zoning ability, unless /w absurd ratio, will be comparable to Orianna and Zyra. The throwing minion part is an AOE so it will push the lane like most other AOE spells.
I don't always call shit OP just by seeing their kits, but when I do, it's this bitch.
I don't see how she can be OP unless her ratios are totally absurd. She can probably lane OK, but I bet she is a poor roamer due to one CC that is an AOE that only slows (W) and her R requires a set up.
Her roaming may be underwhelming as she needs time for setup with the orbs, but her zone control looks insane, and the ability to throw minions is not only a great harassment tool, but also allows you to manipulate lane flow without necessarily pushing. If she gets any time at all to set up orbs, shooting them like a shotgun and then throwing another one for a knock-up (max rank W) is pretty impressive AoE CC.
I think her zoning ability, unless /w absurd ratio, will be comparable to Orianna and Zyra. The throwing minion part is an AOE so it will push the lane like most other AOE spells.
Could you not set it up to throw minions back towards you to stall the pushing?
Her kit reminds me a bit of some character from the SC2 mod map Smashcraft (it's really good btw, if you play some SC2 from time to time do try it, it's fast paced, with good balance and teamwork, synergy, and BGMs) whom I had been trying to guess how he could be adaptated (adapted? cba checking now) into LoL. Plus the comics seems to indicate nice visual effects on her spells. TL;DR: I way be rusty as fuck in mid lane, but she might become my 3rd "first day buy" after Viktor and Nautilus juste based on how cool and appealing she seems to me.
Edit: just looked the wiki. Holyshitdowant. Another Orianna? I may suck at robot-girl but she still remains fun as hell to play as soon as you get some cdr. I believe it would be a good way to play Syndra going with Dark Sphere to maintain a high number on the field and zone the shit out of people. Plus, strong laning phase based on tools, harass and high skill cap rather than annoying/easy shit like Zyra's range and "I don't need to hit anything my plants will hurt you"? Yes please. <3
On August 17 2012 05:56 Slayer91 wrote: What about rengar? He looks absurdly strong. He's like garen-dyr in terms of skill kid.
Passive: Garen brush camping Q: Tiger stance W: Garen W+healing instead of a shield from udyrs w + aoe damage E: standard gap closer R: Movement speed increase (but stealth and reveal)
I'd consider E a hell of a lot better than a "standard gap closer".
From PBE stuff I've seen, it's point-and-click and has like ~500-600 range. A zero-cost point-and-click AD-scaling nuke that also slows and has 500+ range and moderate cooldown looks like it could be pretty damn abusive top lane.
I don't always call shit OP just by seeing their kits, but when I do, it's this bitch.
I don't see how she can be OP unless her ratios are totally absurd. She can probably lane OK, but I bet she is a poor roamer due to one CC that is an AOE that only slows (W) and her R requires a set up.
Her roaming may be underwhelming as she needs time for setup with the orbs, but her zone control looks insane, and the ability to throw minions is not only a great harassment tool, but also allows you to manipulate lane flow without necessarily pushing. If she gets any time at all to set up orbs, shooting them like a shotgun and then throwing another one for a knock-up (max rank W) is pretty impressive AoE CC.
I think her zoning ability, unless /w absurd ratio, will be comparable to Orianna and Zyra. The throwing minion part is an AOE so it will push the lane like most other AOE spells.
Pick up a minion, throw it behind your own. It gets hurt (don't know how much yet), but it stalls your own minions, causing them to run back and attack it, which can mean the difference between them moving under the enemy turret and being in the middle of lane.
Maybe I'm overestimating it, but it seems really strong to me.
Nice to see that they are trying to make kat and garen viable, and teemo getting buffed is interesting, but not something I want to see (hes annoying, and i always seem to get the guy who wants to play him.)
On August 17 2012 05:56 Slayer91 wrote: What about rengar? He looks absurdly strong. He's like garen-dyr in terms of skill kid.
Passive: Garen brush camping Q: Tiger stance W: Garen W+healing instead of a shield from udyrs w + aoe damage E: standard gap closer R: Movement speed increase (but stealth and reveal)
I'd consider E a hell of a lot better than a "standard gap closer".
From PBE stuff I've seen, it's point-and-click and has like ~500-600 range. A zero-cost point-and-click AD-scaling nuke that also slows and has 500+ range and moderate cooldown looks like it could be pretty damn abusive top lane.
I have'nt played him yet, and I'm not sure how ferocity works, so It's a gap closer of some sorts I will wait to judge.
I assumed he would be a jungler because of his OP brush gankign but we'll see. The ult can be used to guarantee escape if they dont have at least a pink ward right?
On August 17 2012 06:00 Scip wrote: About cost effectiveness.
Let's say you have 2500HP and Atma's. For 2355 gold you get 45 armor, 18 critchance and 37.5 AD. Comparing it to Chain Vest, Cloak of Agility and B. T. Sword, armor costs 15.5, critchance 46.1 and AD costs 36.6. Which mean's Atma's gives 2905 gold worth of stats, while it's price is only 2355g! It's cost effectiveness is 123%!
Problem with that is, 123% cost efficiency isn't even that high, I mean it's pretty decent but other mid-cost items often have more (hello wit's end/hexdrinker) and high-cost items often have some OP active/passive (Randuins/FH if you want armor) and stuff.
Also, for a lot of champions critchance is a throwaway stat, because they rely a lot on skills that do not crit. Olaf for one, Jarvan too to a lesser extent I guess.
Hmm, what about Atmas on Bruiser Kayle? She seems like a decent candidate...if you could afford it eventually.
On August 17 2012 05:56 Slayer91 wrote: What about rengar? He looks absurdly strong. He's like garen-dyr in terms of skill kid.
Passive: Garen brush camping Q: Tiger stance W: Garen W+healing instead of a shield from udyrs w + aoe damage E: standard gap closer R: Movement speed increase (but stealth and reveal)
I'd consider E a hell of a lot better than a "standard gap closer".
From PBE stuff I've seen, it's point-and-click and has like ~500-600 range. A zero-cost point-and-click AD-scaling nuke that also slows and has 500+ range and moderate cooldown looks like it could be pretty damn abusive top lane.
I have'nt played him yet, and I'm not sure how ferocity works, so It's a gap closer of some sorts I will wait to judge.
I assumed he would be a jungler because of his OP brush gankign but we'll see. The ult can be used to guarantee escape if they dont have at least a pink ward right?
Yes, but it seems to have a really long cooldown at lower ranks (scales super aggressively though--50 second CD at 3rd rank).
He could probably work as a jungler, but on paper it looks kind of like Voli--good ganks and strong single-target damage, but the skill you'd max for jungling feels just a bit too awkward when you could be maxing the skill you want to max first in lane.
On August 17 2012 05:56 Slayer91 wrote: What about rengar? He looks absurdly strong. He's like garen-dyr in terms of skill kid.
Passive: Garen brush camping Q: Tiger stance W: Garen W+healing instead of a shield from udyrs w + aoe damage E: standard gap closer R: Movement speed increase (but stealth and reveal)
I'd consider E a hell of a lot better than a "standard gap closer".
From PBE stuff I've seen, it's point-and-click and has like ~500-600 range. A zero-cost point-and-click AD-scaling nuke that also slows and has 500+ range and moderate cooldown looks like it could be pretty damn abusive top lane.
I have'nt played him yet, and I'm not sure how ferocity works, so It's a gap closer of some sorts I will wait to judge.
I assumed he would be a jungler because of his OP brush gankign but we'll see. The ult can be used to guarantee escape if they dont have at least a pink ward right?
From what I saw on PBE videos, his clear seems a bit on the slow side from his lack of real AoE damage, but picks up significantly once you get some ranks in Q.
On August 17 2012 05:56 Slayer91 wrote: What about rengar? He looks absurdly strong. He's like garen-dyr in terms of skill kid.
Passive: Garen brush camping Q: Tiger stance W: Garen W+healing instead of a shield from udyrs w + aoe damage E: standard gap closer R: Movement speed increase (but stealth and reveal)
I'd consider E a hell of a lot better than a "standard gap closer".
From PBE stuff I've seen, it's point-and-click and has like ~500-600 range. A zero-cost point-and-click AD-scaling nuke that also slows and has 500+ range and moderate cooldown looks like it could be pretty damn abusive top lane.
I have'nt played him yet, and I'm not sure how ferocity works, so It's a gap closer of some sorts I will wait to judge.
I assumed he would be a jungler because of his OP brush gankign but we'll see. The ult can be used to guarantee escape if they dont have at least a pink ward right?
From what I saw on PBE videos, his clear seems a bit on the slow side from his lack of real AoE damage, but picks up significantly once you get some ranks in Q.
See that's the thing. Q looks like it's pretty clearly the skill you want to max last, IMO. The base damage doesn't increase that much per rank, and nor does the attack speed steroid, and, critically, the CD doesn't scale.
On August 17 2012 05:56 Slayer91 wrote: What about rengar? He looks absurdly strong. He's like garen-dyr in terms of skill kid.
Passive: Garen brush camping Q: Tiger stance W: Garen W+healing instead of a shield from udyrs w + aoe damage E: standard gap closer R: Movement speed increase (but stealth and reveal)
I'd consider E a hell of a lot better than a "standard gap closer".
From PBE stuff I've seen, it's point-and-click and has like ~500-600 range. A zero-cost point-and-click AD-scaling nuke that also slows and has 500+ range and moderate cooldown looks like it could be pretty damn abusive top lane.
I have'nt played him yet, and I'm not sure how ferocity works, so It's a gap closer of some sorts I will wait to judge.
I assumed he would be a jungler because of his OP brush gankign but we'll see. The ult can be used to guarantee escape if they dont have at least a pink ward right?
From what I saw on PBE videos, his clear seems a bit on the slow side from his lack of real AoE damage, but picks up significantly once you get some ranks in Q.
See that's the thing. Q looks like it's pretty clearly the skill you want to max last, IMO.
I honestly have no idea, I haven't looked at him pretty much at all other than watching some people fuck around.
I'm just going to leave this here as an example of how powerful Rengar can be. Also new bushcamp champ has the name of the previous champion with the syllables reversed, coincidence? I think so.
On August 17 2012 05:56 Slayer91 wrote: What about rengar? He looks absurdly strong. He's like garen-dyr in terms of skill kid.
Passive: Garen brush camping Q: Tiger stance W: Garen W+healing instead of a shield from udyrs w + aoe damage E: standard gap closer R: Movement speed increase (but stealth and reveal)
I'd consider E a hell of a lot better than a "standard gap closer".
From PBE stuff I've seen, it's point-and-click and has like ~500-600 range. A zero-cost point-and-click AD-scaling nuke that also slows and has 500+ range and moderate cooldown looks like it could be pretty damn abusive top lane.
I have'nt played him yet, and I'm not sure how ferocity works, so It's a gap closer of some sorts I will wait to judge.
I assumed he would be a jungler because of his OP brush gankign but we'll see. The ult can be used to guarantee escape if they dont have at least a pink ward right?
From what I saw on PBE videos, his clear seems a bit on the slow side from his lack of real AoE damage, but picks up significantly once you get some ranks in Q.
See that's the thing. Q looks like it's pretty clearly the skill you want to max last, IMO. The base damage doesn't increase that much per rank, and nor does the attack speed steroid, and, critically, the CD doesn't scale.
For lane WEQEE, R>E>W>Q is what I'd try.
Q is definitely the ability to max last whether jungling or laning. It scales well with AD regardless of rank, and like you pointed out the CD doesn't change.
In the jungle I went QWEWW, R>W>E>Q, because W is stupidly good for clearing small camps and sustaining yourself, and also very strong during a gank/tower dive. You basically don't need sustain items on him and can rush his Necklace, Phage, Aegis and whatever else suits your fancy.
The slowest part of his first clear is the very start, the same point where your team will help out. Once he has two abilities it speeds up considerably.
I don't always call shit OP just by seeing their kits, but when I do, it's this bitch.
I don't see how she can be OP unless her ratios are totally absurd. She can probably lane OK, but I bet she is a poor roamer due to one CC that is an AOE that only slows (W) and her R requires a set up.
Her roaming may be underwhelming as she needs time for setup with the orbs, but her zone control looks insane, and the ability to throw minions is not only a great harassment tool, but also allows you to manipulate lane flow without necessarily pushing. If she gets any time at all to set up orbs, shooting them like a shotgun and then throwing another one for a knock-up (max rank W) is pretty impressive AoE CC.
Spheres stick around for 8 seconds and the CD is 3 at max, before CDR. Max CDR puts it around a 2 second CD? 4-5 orbs flying out in a cone if you time it right is not a bad shot.
Note that you can preserve old spheres with her throw as well. So you can actually reach 5-6 depending on the functionality there. That means her ultimate can potentially hit up to 9 times, which is pretty neat.
If her ultimate also preserves the spheres a follow up AoE stun will practically be unavoidable.
EPT
