On July 21 2012 03:00 Requizen wrote: So with tanky-CC being the big jungle role nowadays, what do you think of Skarner anymore? I almost never see him unless I'm personally playing him. Perma-soft CC and ult don't really stack up to Naut/Amumu/Malph/Ali, but his higher damage, and good mobility give plenty in return, I feel.
Skarner's great for picking off people in solo queue, but he has a few problems. Teams with lots of slows/zone control really make his job impossible, and his initiation requires flash or for a high value target to get way out of position. When the key role for a tanky-CC jungler is initiation those are pretty hefty handicaps.
But in solo queue it's not a huge deal. Games don't typically go past the mid-game, and even when they do there's some over-confident/oblivious enemy who'll inevitably get grabbed and gibbed.
His ult isn't an initiate unless you get that out of position person. It's better used to: -Stop dives -Run in and grab a carry after an initiate -CC someone who needs to stop a channel/whatever Running in and trying to initiate with it is a quick ticket to get yourself back to fountain. Better to save it for after the fight starts.
That said, I agree it's still not the most ultimate ult out there, but it seems even weaker when you don't use it correctly.
It's irrelevant what skarner's ult should actually be used for. The point is that people expect powerful initiation from the jungler nowadays, and skarner's initiation powers are simply lacking.
edit: it's not irrelevant, persay, but you know what I mean
On July 21 2012 03:00 Requizen wrote: So with tanky-CC being the big jungle role nowadays, what do you think of Skarner anymore? I almost never see him unless I'm personally playing him. Perma-soft CC and ult don't really stack up to Naut/Amumu/Malph/Ali, but his higher damage, and good mobility give plenty in return, I feel.
Skarner's great for picking off people in solo queue, but he has a few problems. Teams with lots of slows/zone control really make his job impossible, and his initiation requires flash or for a high value target to get way out of position. When the key role for a tanky-CC jungler is initiation those are pretty hefty handicaps.
But in solo queue it's not a huge deal. Games don't typically go past the mid-game, and even when they do there's some over-confident/oblivious enemy who'll inevitably get grabbed and gibbed.
His ult isn't an initiate unless you get that out of position person. It's better used to: -Stop dives -Run in and grab a carry after an initiate -CC someone who needs to stop a channel/whatever Running in and trying to initiate with it is a quick ticket to get yourself back to fountain. Better to save it for after the fight starts.
That said, I agree it's still not the most ultimate ult out there, but it seems even weaker when you don't use it correctly.
It's irrelevant what skarner's ult should actually be used for. The point is that people expect powerful initiation from the jungler nowadays, and skarner's initiation powers are simply lacking.
edit: it's not irrelevant, persay, but you know what I mean
True, but there are plenty of situations where it's not as necessary for the jungle to have initiating power. Ashe can fill that, Blitz support can in a pinch, Leona support can easily, Morg and Galio both have flash ults, Malph top, etc. In the general meta, I'd agree with you though.
On July 21 2012 03:33 wei2coolman wrote: Skarner is probably one of the best counter initiators in the game, I could see him viable in tourney setting against a really strong initiation team.
How does that work? I understand he's a good peeler or so I keep reading in this thread but someone initiates on you, you stun them and pull them deeper into your team? That doesn't seem helpful to me on paper
Galio runs towards your team (or catch him between flash/ult), you grab him, allow your team to scatter, and drag him so he'll only hit you with ult.
Naut hooks your front line, runs in to attack/passive your carry and drop E for the slow. Drag his ass out.
Morg Flashes in. Your team scatters, you drag her away. Sure, you get stunned, but as soon as the tether breaks, your team can turn around and kill her.
Probably the best one: Noc initiate. He ults on to your carry from off the screen, as long as you're close by, you drag his ass off them and kill him.
And in all those situations, as soon as you ult someone, they're pretty much dead because you can get Q slow on them, so they can't get out.
It kind of seems like maybe they shouldn't have gone in the first place because taric could do pretty much the same thing here. I mean if someone jumps on your team there's pretty much only one direction you can drag him that seems particularly effective as 'counterinitiation', which is for you to run into the middle of the enemy team. I get that he's great for peeling but that's really not the same thing.
Not to mention, when an entire enemy team dives onto you, their carries will also be moving forward, it's pretty easy to get carry if they hard initiate on your team, and your team is kiting well. Not to mention, if you fight in jungle. Ulti on carry, flash accross a wall, 1v1 carry. win games
On July 21 2012 04:01 wei2coolman wrote: Not to mention, when an entire enemy team dives onto you, their carries will also be moving forward, it's pretty easy to get carry if they hard initiate on your team, and your team is kiting well. Not to mention, if you fight in jungle. Ulti on carry, flash accross a wall, 1v1 carry. win games
Doesn't work that way. Play the champ before telling the rest of us how to play it...
Shurelia-[flash]-ultis are pretty good, but yeah, it's not the greatest way to start a fight - skarner really does followup initiates better than initiates. If you're peeling for your carry, ulting the bruiser that dove him and dragging him away usually only means going as far forward as your own bruisers, not really all the way into the enemy team. Or you can go off to the side/into a dead end/whatever - your carry is probably railing them with DPS anyway during this time - it might not even matter WHERE you drag them, since even after they get out they'll be permaslowed so your AD carry can finish them off pretty easily.
Skarner punishes positioning mistakes powerfully, but unlike some champs (blitzcrank nautilus leona etc) they have to be significant mistakes, not just failing to dodge a hook/grab. I think these mistakes don't occur often enough in tournament play for Skarner to be a reliable pick for your jungler.
On July 21 2012 04:03 JackDino wrote: You can flash during ult now? What?
No, you can't. You also can't E, which seems odd.
Probably because your stinger is already in use.
I feel like Skarner's place has been/will be taken by Hecarim. Hecarim is a similar champ but he has an amazing initiate, and still sits in the middle of your team not dying and dishing out AoE damage like Skarner does.
On July 21 2012 04:03 JackDino wrote: You can flash during ult now? What?
No, you can't. You also can't E, which seems odd.
Probably because your stinger is already in use.
I feel like Skarner's place has been/will be taken by Hecarim. Hecarim is a similar champ but he has an amazing initiate, and still sits in the middle of your team not dying and dishing out AoE damage like Skarner does.
On July 21 2012 04:03 JackDino wrote: You can flash during ult now? What?
No, you can't. You also can't E, which seems odd.
Probably because your stinger is already in use.
I feel like Skarner's place has been/will be taken by Hecarim. Hecarim is a similar champ but he has an amazing initiate, and still sits in the middle of your team not dying and dishing out AoE damage like Skarner does.
They are pretty similar. Hec's E is pretty sick good for peeling, as well. However, he doesn't have the perma-AoE-slow that can just demolish anyone caught out of position. He's probably higher damage/survivability, though. I don't see why they can't both fill slightly different roles :\
On July 21 2012 04:03 JackDino wrote: You can flash during ult now? What?
No, you can't. You also can't E, which seems odd.
Probably because your stinger is already in use.
I feel like Skarner's place has been/will be taken by Hecarim. Hecarim is a similar champ but he has an amazing initiate, and still sits in the middle of your team not dying and dishing out AoE damage like Skarner does.
On July 21 2012 03:35 iaeuy wrote: @fakesteve Shes easier to use, and more importantly you can dish out 2 chords within 1.5 seconds now instead of 6. Pretty big change imo.
hmmm, i should experiment with that then. i'm still so used to the global cooldown on her spells. you'd be waiting on the cooldown for Q so you could put the damage aura up, though. unless you want your second Power Chord to be a slow with less damage.
Yeah, sorry about this one guys. This was 100% my fault.
We intend for Urgot to be a tanky mid-range anti-carry. The long range / harass nerfs work to do that while the Q nerf actually does the opposite (forces him to build squishy).
Overall we did intend to nerf Urgot and at the same time address playing against frustrations as much as possible. What was not intended was to completely change his playstyle and remove his unique team role / purpose.
Next patch we will be reverting the damage changes to Urgot's Q.
On July 20 2012 17:01 Zooper31 wrote: Just played a game with 2 rioters on my team. RiotNome and RiotMspudding. In the 1500s. They called us braindead teammates and raged as much as any other person in this elo range. Very dissapointed.
Former S2 employees, they played a lot of HoN before so I wouldn't be surprised. In HoN, Nome managed to hit like 1800ish (I believe so) and MsPudding his around 1700.
This seems a bit off. I mean Riot generally doesn't do so well with their employees acting like that. I'd be curious at the chat log there. At least it does not really sound like something someone employed by Riot would be doing on their official names.
Thats what my friend told me to do, SS chat and put it on forums, decided not too. I was playing top, Nome (playing mumu) came for gank. I didn't go in fast enough and we missed the kill, he called me stupid. Later on all the lanes are losing and he says "braindead teammates" in all chat.
On July 20 2012 17:01 Zooper31 wrote: Just played a game with 2 rioters on my team. RiotNome and RiotMspudding. In the 1500s. They called us braindead teammates and raged as much as any other person in this elo range. Very dissapointed.
Former S2 employees, they played a lot of HoN before so I wouldn't be surprised. In HoN, Nome managed to hit like 1800ish (I believe so) and MsPudding his around 1700.
This seems a bit off. I mean Riot generally doesn't do so well with their employees acting like that. I'd be curious at the chat log there. At least it does not really sound like something someone employed by Riot would be doing on their official names.
Thats what my friend told me to do, SS chat and put it on forums, decided not too. I was playing top, Nome (playing mumu) came for gank. I didn't go in fast enough and we missed the kill, he called me stupid. Later on all the lanes are losing and he says "braindead teammates" in all chat.
Eh, on one hand, it's really unprofessional and they should be talked to about it. On the other hand, they're off hours and get frustrated just like everyone else. I'm not surprised that this stuff happens, at least it's not like when they ban people for no real reason.
On July 21 2012 03:30 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: so after a couple games i can't figure out the sona change.
since there's an animation cooldown on Q where she can't take any action for a bit, it seems that aa-q-powerchord doesn't really happen any faster than it used to. it's a little cleaner, but even at base attack speed you're only really shaving a frame or two outta the auto attack cooldown to begin with
so why did they make the change? i don't really see the purpose. still not giving up on my girl, but for a QoL change it sure doesn't improve the quality of life much
Ah, so it's just as I tought initialy... thanks. I'm a bit disappointed, still.
Edit: Aaaah it's such a pain to engage targets with long-range spells as Talon. He hurts in lane and kill easily, but to be able to engage his targets... maybe I should E to a nearby minion, W, and use the slow to Q them? Having a jungle Nasus camping you doesn't help either. Morgana could be that bad at skillshots, hard to miss when your target doesn't even have 100 MS.
EPT
