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On July 30 2012 07:54 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 07:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 30 2012 07:20 Dark_Chill wrote:
Off-topic question, if the frame for your glasses broke, where you go to get them repaired?
Any optometrist. A lot of places will do minor repairs for free if you just walk in even if you didn't get your glasses there. If you need to replace parts might have to pay a bit. Or duct tape. Totally duct tape. Trust the likes of me, Day9 and many others. Unless you work. As long as you're in school/uni, duct tape is all you need. 
#1 rule for life:
If it moves, but shouldn't: Duct tape.
If it doesn't move, but should: WD-40.
Solves almost any problems. Transitioning that advice to league might net some interesting results. :o
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Noobville17921 Posts
On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick.
He does good AOE damage too, his bombs are what 320 + .9 ap? or somethign ridiculous in aoe.
and you cast them twice.
plus his ult and his speed boost thing is pretty good too
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On July 30 2012 10:50 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 07:54 Celial wrote:On July 30 2012 07:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 30 2012 07:20 Dark_Chill wrote:
Off-topic question, if the frame for your glasses broke, where you go to get them repaired?
Any optometrist. A lot of places will do minor repairs for free if you just walk in even if you didn't get your glasses there. If you need to replace parts might have to pay a bit. Or duct tape. Totally duct tape. Trust the likes of me, Day9 and many others. Unless you work. As long as you're in school/uni, duct tape is all you need. #1 rule for life: If it moves, but shouldn't: Duct tape. If it doesn't move, but should: WD-40. Solves almost any problems. Transitioning that advice to league might net some interesting results. :o
#1 rule for League of Legends:
If it moves, but shouldn't: CC.
If it doesn't move, but should: Shurelias.
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On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick.
Zilean doesn't do nearly as much damage as an AP carry needs to do. Take Morgana for example, she has a spell rotation that easily deals 3.3 AP ratio of damage with similar cooldowns as Zilean. Zilean only has 1.8 AP ratio of damage total on all his spells, assuming you rewind his bombs.
Also, at level 1, there's no way you're getting 5 seconds of 55% slow. Level 1 Time Warp is 2.5 seconds with 20 second cooldown. Even if you rewind as soon as you use Time Warp you still got 10 seconds of cooldown left. Assuming you have blue buff for 20% cdr, you'll still have 6 seconds before you can Time Warp again. 2.5 second slow is not that much, especially for laning phase ganks. In addition, if you rewind your slow to try to get another slow off, you now are forcing your one and only nuke to be on a huge 10 second cooldown (8 seconds if you have blue buff). Simply put, Zilean just doesn't offer as much for laning phase outside of having sick lane control. Mid-late game, he has decent upfront burst, but his overall dps pales in comparison to other AP carries. Zilean becomes a utility bot; a secondary support with lots of farm, which Morgana does much better.
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I was involved with an triple ga strat in a practice game (tl practice league thing) And it went really well .
Also a QSS looks a ton like a duct tape sash.
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On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick.
Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness.
Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell.
Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing.
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Noobville17921 Posts
On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing.
Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far
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On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far
Strongest lategame is questionable, Trist and Kog are both situationally better
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On July 30 2012 11:10 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far Strongest lategame is questionable, Trist and Kog are both situationally better
Personally I think Trist/Kog are better lategame period :\
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On July 30 2012 11:19 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:10 101toss wrote:On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far Strongest lategame is questionable, Trist and Kog are both situationally better Personally I think Trist/Kog are better lategame period :\
I'd say that comes down to team comp/opposition. Trist/Kog's range is obviously superior and if they can get some front line protection they'll pewpew the enemy's faces off, but Vayne's mobility can allow her to put in serious work if your team lacks the cc or strong tank line.
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On July 30 2012 11:10 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far Strongest lategame is questionable, Trist and Kog are both situationally better
I think the pre-tense in this situation is Zilean in premade 5's. In that case, assuming the AD carry is good at all, I'd rather have a Vayne who knows what he/she is doing than any other AD carry. If the pre-tense is solo queue then give me yorick all day long!
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zilean is one of the best roamers in the game with blue buff, as his countergank ability is tremendous and his diving and utility is huge
i think the best answer to zilean is sufficient AoE (like amumu/galio large AoE) in combination with some strong single target CC or suppression in order to catch zilean + his ult target of choice (an AD, or irelia type bruiser) and damage both enough to pressure zilean and then to have the cc hit zilean when he is low, to either kill him before he can ult or to force zilean to get a subpar ult on other targets or to ult himself (if both are low then this tends to allow for an easy win in the subsequent teamfight)
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On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far
M5 just ran Zilean+Jax at ECC Poland.
You can speed yourself up, place bomb, rewind, place another bomb and slow. You make it sound like you're just using rewind to reset your E lol. jiji roams more with Zilean than I see him roam with anyone other than like Ahri.
It's kind of a stretch to say that Zilean isn't good too. Yeah, you sacrifice damage and yeah you don't have as much utility as Morgana but you have one of the best ults in the game. It's why you run high damage top laners and late game AD carries with Zilean.
The comparison is because the only reason you'd pick Yorick is for his ult. I dunno why you'd want Yorick over most other top laners if he didn't have his ult. And considering Zilean ult is better than Yorick ult...
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On July 30 2012 11:25 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far The comparison is because the only reason you'd pick Yorick is for his ult. I dunno why you'd want Yorick over most other top laners if he didn't have his ult. And considering Zilean ult is better than Yorick ult...
Yeah, being somebody who can consistently win lane against almost any champ sucks. Better only take Yorick for his ult.
You nuts.
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On July 30 2012 11:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:25 overt wrote:On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far The comparison is because the only reason you'd pick Yorick is for his ult. I dunno why you'd want Yorick over most other top laners if he didn't have his ult. And considering Zilean ult is better than Yorick ult... Yeah, being somebody who can consistently win lane against almost any champ sucks. Better only take Yorick for his ult. You nuts.
Other than his ultimate, Yorick's lategame is very underwhelming. His sustain is pretty irrelevant in teamfights, his slow is very weak, and his damage is mediocre.
Basically every time I play Yorick I spend the first 25 minutes thinking "Yes! I am invincible!" and then the next 10-15 minutes thinking "Damn, I wish I was Warwick".
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On July 30 2012 11:48 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 11:25 overt wrote:On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far The comparison is because the only reason you'd pick Yorick is for his ult. I dunno why you'd want Yorick over most other top laners if he didn't have his ult. And considering Zilean ult is better than Yorick ult... Yeah, being somebody who can consistently win lane against almost any champ sucks. Better only take Yorick for his ult. You nuts. Other than his ultimate, Yorick's lategame is very underwhelming. His sustain is pretty irrelevant in teamfights, his slow is very weak, and his damage is mediocre. Basically every time I play Yorick I spend the first 25 minutes thinking "Yes! I am invincible!" and then the next 10-15 minutes thinking "Damn, I wish I was Warwick".
It's ok when you get two tristanas
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On July 30 2012 11:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:25 overt wrote:On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far The comparison is because the only reason you'd pick Yorick is for his ult. I dunno why you'd want Yorick over most other top laners if he didn't have his ult. And considering Zilean ult is better than Yorick ult... Yeah, being somebody who can consistently win lane against almost any champ sucks. Better only take Yorick for his ult. You nuts.
With his ult he's really good. Without his ult he's just another good laner that's not that great in team fights. Which is why I said you're mostly picking him for his ult.
It's the same thing for Zilean. He wins most lanes too but you're pretty much only picking Zil for his ult.
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On July 30 2012 11:48 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 11:25 overt wrote:On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far The comparison is because the only reason you'd pick Yorick is for his ult. I dunno why you'd want Yorick over most other top laners if he didn't have his ult. And considering Zilean ult is better than Yorick ult... Yeah, being somebody who can consistently win lane against almost any champ sucks. Better only take Yorick for his ult. You nuts. Other than his ultimate, Yorick's lategame is very underwhelming. His sustain is pretty irrelevant in teamfights, his slow is very weak, and his damage is mediocre.Basically every time I play Yorick I spend the first 25 minutes thinking "Yes! I am invincible!" and then the next 10-15 minutes thinking "Damn, I wish I was Warwick".
To be fair, you just described like...75% of all top laners' lategames. With the exception of the bruisers that build pure AD/AP and/or Nasus, all melee bruisers' lategames end up that way.
Honestly, I think you guys are underestimating Yorick's teamfight outside of his ult. He has a auto reset skill on a 5 second cd that has a 1.2 total AD ratio. That's a considerable chunk of damage and it also gives him a speed buff that lets him stick to his target. His W is a 40% slow for 1.5 seconds, then 20% for the rest of the ghoul's duration. It's a lot stronger of a slow than you think. His E is a decent nuke, but it's not all that great in fights. Then Yorick's ghouls do 35% of his damage in teamfights, with his Q ghoul getting +40 AD. They're immune to slows and take half damage from aoe. Yorick himself also gets a decent 15~20% increase/reduction in damage from his passive.
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On July 30 2012 12:01 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:48 Alzadar wrote:On July 30 2012 11:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 11:25 overt wrote:On July 30 2012 11:08 arb wrote:On July 30 2012 11:05 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On July 30 2012 10:23 overt wrote:
What? Zilean does crazy single target damage in mid game and can either speed up someone with CC or greatly slow down an enemy. He's an excellent ganker and a good wave clearer. I mean with proper use of rewind you have 5 seconds of a 55% speed up or slow down as Zilean assuming your E is only at level 1. At level 2 E it's 6 seconds of speed up/slow down. Hell you can, and players do, speed themselves up and slow down an enemy while double bombing them. I don't see how Zilean could be considered as not being good at roaming or ganking.
Zilean ult gives a carry 7 seconds in which the enemy team doesn't want to attack them. And then, if they do attack them, it'll revive them with a pretty sizeable chunk of health.
Zilean definitely not as good in solo queue, I'll give you that. But with a team built around him he's incredibly strong. Definitely better to have than Yorick in arranged 5s. Granted, they're two separate roles but if I wanted to run a "revive our super carry" I'd much rather run Zilean than Yorick. Your last sentence is the major thing on why Zilean isn't good. You need a team basically about feeding the shit out of a champ and getting them stupidly strong and letting them crush late game. Older Jax w/ Zilean was common and there are probably a couple of others you can still do it with. Yorick however you can throw into almost any team with no downside. He loses lane to almost nobody and remains strong for long periods of time because of his sticking power and tankiness. Zilean can be annoying, but he is entirely based around his ult. He gets 1 damaging ability that he can rewind to cast again. Compare that to, oh, any other AP and that is why he's simply not that good. Can zilean roam? Sure, any champ can. But just because he can doesn't mean he's good at it. He has a slow which means he can't use a speed up, unless he rewinds, which means now he's cut his own damage output in 1/2 because he's rewinding a non-damage spell. Also, this whole conversation to begin with I don't know why you got into it. Zilean and Yorick are not worth comparing. Well truthfully I thought the only time you see Zilean is with Vayne? since shes the strongest lategame AD by far The comparison is because the only reason you'd pick Yorick is for his ult. I dunno why you'd want Yorick over most other top laners if he didn't have his ult. And considering Zilean ult is better than Yorick ult... Yeah, being somebody who can consistently win lane against almost any champ sucks. Better only take Yorick for his ult. You nuts. Other than his ultimate, Yorick's lategame is very underwhelming. His sustain is pretty irrelevant in teamfights, his slow is very weak, and his damage is mediocre.Basically every time I play Yorick I spend the first 25 minutes thinking "Yes! I am invincible!" and then the next 10-15 minutes thinking "Damn, I wish I was Warwick". To be fair, you just described like...75% of all top laners' lategames. With the exception of the bruisers that build pure AD/AP and/or Nasus, all melee bruisers' lategames end up that way.
And then there's irelia
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On July 30 2012 06:44 gtrsrs wrote:
everything about her is ridiculous except she has no escape
no problem, get ganked, garen-tee you get a kill with your passive even if you die
you can make everything 1 for 1 with her
early-game plants are just a nice bonus to her ridiculous range and cc and damage
lategame plants are stronger than champs, you can shred enemy tanks to half before a fight even starts if you set up some zone control around baron/objectives
she's one of the strongest champs to be released in quite some time
This is how I feel about zyra as well. She's probably just as good if not better than orianna before all the nerfs. Oriannas burst damage was much better though, but zyra controls team fights, tower defense and tower pushes much better.
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EPT
