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On July 10 2012 17:15 Simberto wrote:
Also, "recommended for new junglers" usually means "if you are not lvl 30 yet, and don't have runes/all masteries, but still want to jungle", which narrows it down pretty hard to stuff with enough innate sustain to work without runes.
This is my understanding as well. Reading Craton's comments it sounds like he is talking about 1600 Elo players who want to learn to jungle for the first time or something, not what most people would understand under "new junglers" I think (for example he is talking about Alistar being perma-ban when most new junglers are playing blind-pick, and besides Alistar is almost never banned at low Elo).
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On July 10 2012 17:26 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 17:12 nosliw wrote:
so this new nunu. What is the minimal item required to solo baron? I don't think it is possible to solo baron. Although it will help you greatly to have Frozen Heart/Revolver/CDR.
there's a vid on the first page.
the guy had RoA, Athene's, HoG, and Boots (I think CDR? but mercs/tabis would probably work just as well). He also had blue buff, which is probably a necessity. Basically, you just need enough hp to tank Baron for a decent enough time, max or near max cdr along with sufficient mana regen to consume spam. That's it.
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Need to check which level of consume he had tho, it's easier to win your lane the less points you put in it, but when it comes to soloing Nashor...
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I kind of think that more heal = easier lane but..
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On July 10 2012 18:31 Shikyo wrote:
I kind of think that more heal = easier lane but..
Well, on the other hand usually more heal = less damage. Less damage = easier lane for the opponent.
Can anyone explain why Riot decided to allow people to set masteries in the champ select but not the runes? I have 10 rune pages but still not enough for all the situations :-/
Oh, wait, rune pages cost money :-/
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On July 10 2012 18:34 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 18:31 Shikyo wrote:
I kind of think that more heal = easier lane but.. Well, on the other hand usually more heal = less damage. Less damage = easier lane for the opponent. Can anyone explain why Riot decided to allow people to set masteries in the champ select but not the runes? I have 10 rune pages but still not enough for all the situations :-/ Oh, wait, rune pages cost money :-/
Well how often are you autoing your opponent anyway ;S
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On July 10 2012 18:34 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 18:31 Shikyo wrote:
I kind of think that more heal = easier lane but.. Well, on the other hand usually more heal = less damage. Less damage = easier lane for the opponent. Can anyone explain why Riot decided to allow people to set masteries in the champ select but not the runes? I have 10 rune pages but still not enough for all the situations :-/ Oh, wait, rune pages cost money :-/
Really? 10 pages? x_x
Im getting by with just a handful; what kinds of adjustments are you doing per page?
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I've got 16 and I could use more.  Some I use really rarely though (MPen/mp5/AP/AP because I generally like MR blues and/or MS quints, and MPen/armor/AP/MS because I only really use it when I go Swain top).
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On July 10 2012 18:55 JerKy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 18:34 Morfildur wrote:On July 10 2012 18:31 Shikyo wrote:
I kind of think that more heal = easier lane but.. Well, on the other hand usually more heal = less damage. Less damage = easier lane for the opponent. Can anyone explain why Riot decided to allow people to set masteries in the champ select but not the runes? I have 10 rune pages but still not enough for all the situations :-/ Oh, wait, rune pages cost money :-/ Really? 10 pages? x_x Im getting by with just a handful; what kinds of adjustments are you doing per page?
My pages:
Top AD (ArPen+MS), ex. Olaf
Top AS (AS+ArPen), ex. Irelia
Top AP (MPen+MS), ex. Shen
AD Carry (AD), ex. Ashe
AP Carry (AP), ex. Brand
Mana AP Carry (AP & MReg), ex. Ahri
AS Jungle (AS+MS), ex. WW/Udyr
AS AP Jungle (AS+AP), ex. Maokai
Support (Gp5), ex. Soraka
AS ArPen MReg, forgot for which champ, could probably replace that one
but all the top and ad carry pages have mres/lvl, would need another version with armor/lvl + fixed mres against ap. And then i always have situations where i want to play a champion where i need a different rune setup, for example Malphite with armor quints or such.
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I have 16 pages and the ones that I use most are:
4x AP pages for characters that need/don't need mana
Mpen marks, AP quints. The varying things are mana regen/flat health seals and MR glyphs/AP per level
I use all 4 regularly
An AP page for really really hard lanes
Mpen marks, hp/level seals, flat MR glyphs/quints
Hard lanes such as TF vs leblanc
AS/MS for most junglers
MS quints, AS marks, armor seals, mr per level glyphs
maokai page
AP quints, AS marks, armor seals, mix of flat AP and scaling MR glyphs (20 AP total)
Support
gold quints, armor reds, gold seals, mr/level glyphs
AD carry (2 versions)
flat AD quints/marks, armor seals, flat/scaling MR glyphs (depends on lane)
Ryze
MS quints, mpen reds, hp/level seals, MR glyphs
Lee Sin jungle - This one I'm not so sure about. I usually use my AD carry page for lee since all his skills are AD scaling.
10 arpen, 9.6AD, armor seals, mr/level glyphs
I have a few more for niche stuff but I generally don't use them.
For top lane, I generally use one of the AD carry pages I have since it's my weakest lane by far.
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I have 4 rune pages:
Generic AP page, a Ryze page, generic AD page, mass armor page
Don't really need many more for now <_<
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i could use unlimited amounts of runepages.
ap mana, ap no mana, ap top, support, ad mid, ad bot, jungler pages, ad caster, ad tanky, magic tanky, tanky movespeed, ryze......i have all the runes, but not pages :D
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On July 10 2012 19:32 Shikyo wrote:
I have 4 rune pages:
Generic AP page, a Ryze page, generic AD page, mass armor page
Don't really need many more for now <_<
It was the same for me, i just had 3 pages, neatly named by the champions i played. Then i started branching out into other roles...
First it was just another page for a top bruiser.
Then i had to play support often enough to warrant it's own page.
Then i started playing jungler.
Then i played another style of jungler.
Then Olaf wasn't good enough anymore as my only top champion.
It happens faster than you might expect :p
On July 10 2012 19:40 LaNague wrote:
i could use unlimited amounts of runepages.
ap mana, ap no mana, ap top, support, ad mid, ad bot, jungler pages, ad caster, ad tanky, magic tanky, tanky movespeed, ryze......i have all the runes, but not pages :D
If they would charge 25€ for the ability to set runes in champion select, i'd immediately buy it :p
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On July 10 2012 19:42 Morfildur wrote:
If they would charge 25€ for the ability to set runes in champion select, i'd immediately buy it :p
Don't give them bad ideas :/
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I started off with my runepage collection with two, an AP mid and an AD carry page.
Then I started playing ranked and by the time I hit 1300, I realized that getting mid/ad carry was a 2/5 chance. I bought a rune page bundle.
With 7 more pages, I had:
AP carry mana
Ap carry no mana
AP tanky
AD carry
Support
AS/MS jungle
Maokai
Armor top
MR top
and then I had to get more pages to fit in Ryze, have more options in midlane, play specific champions (akali, shen, lee sin, urgot) and then I had to buy more.
16 is enough for me right now since I only play ~5 champions top, 8 AP mids, 5 junglers, 5 AD carries and every support except karma/leona and there's enough overlap in there that 16 is enough.
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On July 10 2012 14:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 14:00 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 10 2012 13:33 TheYango wrote:On July 10 2012 13:22 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't think either warwick or nunu are really representative of what a jungler should be. Neither has good ganks at early levels. In fact without red on Warwick, you normally don't have any CC. Nunu has his E, so he at least can gank early on (but in my experience he lacks damage). I also feel like nunu needs to counterjungle to be effective. There's no such thing as a perfect jungler to get started with. Both warwick and nunu are fine because they have an easy time sustaining themselves in the jungle and they aren't reliant on blue buff so they don't suffer from getting invaded. Most new junglers are concerned they won't be able to sustain themselves. Other sustainy junglers include trundle and I think cho'gath to a degree. Sion sustains his health quite well throughout but his shield and ult cost quite a bit of mana.
I personally ended up trying all sorts of junglers, jungling everything I could get. We jungle enthusiasts have all probably jungled heimer before (in a bot game?). I think my first junglers were nunu and sion, but then I transitioned to kayle and nothing else has been as interesting. lol Snowball+Blood Boil ganks not good enough apparently. huehuehue Reason why Nunu and WW are suggested is because they have top notch sustain and good ganks. Not sure in what world you're on obesechickn13, that you would suggest Trundle, Cho and even Sion over the previously mentioned two. It's interesting that he brings up Trundle because there's like a grand total of like two people in the world who play/build Trundle correctly. So much for easy.
What is the correct build for Trundle? I'm saving up IP for him but the couple of times I played him in free weeks I went generic wriggles HoG into tanky with a triforce whenever I could afford to get it.
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On July 10 2012 20:30 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 14:10 TheYango wrote:On July 10 2012 14:00 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 10 2012 13:33 TheYango wrote:On July 10 2012 13:22 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't think either warwick or nunu are really representative of what a jungler should be. Neither has good ganks at early levels. In fact without red on Warwick, you normally don't have any CC. Nunu has his E, so he at least can gank early on (but in my experience he lacks damage). I also feel like nunu needs to counterjungle to be effective. There's no such thing as a perfect jungler to get started with. Both warwick and nunu are fine because they have an easy time sustaining themselves in the jungle and they aren't reliant on blue buff so they don't suffer from getting invaded. Most new junglers are concerned they won't be able to sustain themselves. Other sustainy junglers include trundle and I think cho'gath to a degree. Sion sustains his health quite well throughout but his shield and ult cost quite a bit of mana.
I personally ended up trying all sorts of junglers, jungling everything I could get. We jungle enthusiasts have all probably jungled heimer before (in a bot game?). I think my first junglers were nunu and sion, but then I transitioned to kayle and nothing else has been as interesting. lol Snowball+Blood Boil ganks not good enough apparently. huehuehue Reason why Nunu and WW are suggested is because they have top notch sustain and good ganks. Not sure in what world you're on obesechickn13, that you would suggest Trundle, Cho and even Sion over the previously mentioned two. It's interesting that he brings up Trundle because there's like a grand total of like two people in the world who play/build Trundle correctly. So much for easy. What is the correct build for Trundle? I'm saving up IP for him but the couple of times I played him in free weeks I went generic wriggles HoG into tanky with a triforce whenever I could afford to get it.
I personally would go for 40% cdr and spam pillars but I'm kind of an asshole so maybe that's not optimal
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I think I've got like 6-7 pages but I only use like 4 consistently in ranked the others are a bit more niche and not necessary. (Top lane armour, top lane mr, jungle with ms/as, support)
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Here are some of my thoughts on this rune page discussion.
There are relatively a lot of champions that people say need specific rune pages,but you can honestly get 5 rune pages that will cover pretty much almost every champion in the game.
For instance I see a lot of people use a separate rune page for maokai(ap quints and all that jazz),but you can really get away with a generic udyr(phoenix) rune page on maokai and it works just as well(yes you can do a wraith start without ap quints).
I think that if you get 4-5 rune pages and get the following rune setup you are pretty set.
A jungle ms/as page (MS quints,AS reds,armor yellow and mr per lvl blue),
ad page(ad quints reds,armor yellow,mr per lvl blue)
ap mid page(personally I prefer MS quints mostly because of the champs I play,mpen reds,ap per lvl blue)
armor page(armor quints and yellows,ad red,mr per lvl blue)
Fifth page is just to fill that need for a niche page(mr ap mid,mr top lane,support or something like that)
More than this is a waste of money/IP points I think.
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I see no need for a seperate AP page, I just go yellow armor and mres blues. Mres blues win vs ap/lvl blues in lane anyway and 650 dmg spell vs 665 dmg spell really makes no difference
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EPT
