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[Patch 1.0.0.142: Jayce] General Discussion - Page 41

Forum Index > LoL General
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Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
July 10 2012 15:02 GMT
#801
I really do assume there will be an increase in bans. If not, I think there will always be enough counter balancing to make champs "not OP". Galio is not OP, neither is Kass, I would say, but they both keep many mids from feeling OP to me, thanks to their counter-picking prowess in mid. Random example, I know, but it's really the only one I could think of.

I can't really foresee too many "degenerate interactions", though. There really aren't too many new mechanics coming out, most things are existing mechanics with a twist, so I can't see anything that's more abusive than what already exists. Maybe if we see more single target point and click stuns or easy to land AoE stuns? But I doubt those will ever really become prevalent.
It's your boy Guzma!
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
July 10 2012 15:19 GMT
#802
On July 11 2012 00:00 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2012 23:59 Ryuu314 wrote:
On July 10 2012 23:54 Zdrastochye wrote:
On July 10 2012 23:41 Requizen wrote:
No matter how good you are at balancing, there's still going to be champions that fall into (generally) one of four categories: OP, Good, UP, or Shit.

Shit champs don't matter, they're in the pool, but who cares? Aside from trolling, no one is going to pick champions that are inherently bad. However, I suppose we could get to a point where there are no Shit champs, but I find it highly unlikely. There will always be at least a couple that are severely, absurdly outclassed in every way possible for one reason or another.

UP champs will be the ones that have the potential to be Good, but are held back by one thing or another. These generally will fluctuate with buffs, items, meta, etc. Brand, I would say, is UP right now, as one of the more held back AP mids. These generally don't matter in the pool, because you won't ever see them outside of one person stubbornly playing them (Scarra on Kat, for example).

OP champs, in a way, don't matter for Draft play. Someone who is truly OP for whatever reason (Morg for several reasons, Shen for his ult) will always, always be banned. They don't matter to the pool, because they're removed immediately nearly every time.

Good Champs are the ones that really matter from a meta perspective. The ones that are viable and competitive, can be counter picked or can counter pick, or can be played safely. The only time they see bans is specific counter picks or banning out a certain players.

What does this seemingly asinine post mean when it comes to ranked? That it really will never matter how many champs are in the total pool. Even if there are 250 champs in the future, you'll knock out a handful immediately that are Shit picks, and more that are UP and really unplayed until the meta changes. OP ones will always be banned out, so even with 250 champs, that suddenly gets whittled down to maybe 150 after all is said and done, and once you take team comps and counter picking into account, you really only have to "worry" about a double handful.

That was a ramble, sorry I'm tired. The point I was trying to make is that people need to stop worrying about how many champs there are in the game. At any given time, as long as you pay attention to nerfs/buffs/meta, you only really need to be aware of around half of them. I doubt that there will ever be a time where every champ is viable enough that you need all of them and know the ins and outs of playing as/with/against all of them.

This post makes no sense.


All I'm saying is make it so shit champions can't be picked, since they're only there for troll purposes.

That's really dumb. If you can't ever pick shit champions, then there's no way to tell if they're truly shit or not. Tons of champions have become fotm or viable after being thought to be shit tier for a long time.

Rather than making them unpickable, Riot should just aim to balance/tweak them so they're not shit tier.


Current Eve.

Even Eve isn't shit until the very highest levels of play. You just have to be good at abusing stupid enemies (not exactly the skill most people actively practice), in turn your other skills can be lacking. And on Dominion, she's not bad at all.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-10 15:24:40
July 10 2012 15:24 GMT
#803
On July 10 2012 21:49 ShloobeR wrote:
I always did wraith start because I get to blue without wasting any time and by the time i continue my course to wraiths they're already respawned

but if you go for the level 2 gank I suppose wolves make more sense.


By the time you do wraiths with a wolves start you can go back to wolves and they already respawned.
Then your smite is up just as you're doing red. Timing works out, none of the pitfalls of wraith start (camping your blue brush, stealing your wraiths, popping saplings)
It's a minimal improvement for a sizeable risk.
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1944 Posts
July 10 2012 15:25 GMT
#804
Well, considering the runebook discussion, i've got a problem myself right now.

I've got:

AD-Carry: AD Quints and reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues
Support: GP quints, ap reds, armor yellows and mana blues i think. (stop bashing me about it)
Pantheon: AD Quints, Arpen reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues
Udyr: AS Quints and reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues
AP-Carry: AP Quints and reds, sth yellow, mr/lvl blues.

Where do i fit Top Malphite? Or any caster i want to use top? I need Armor, so can't use ap carry. i DOnt want to hit champs, so pantheon is out, udyr is out because my autattack is already so weak, why would i want to hit faster? Support could be ok, but still really not that great, so i used my ad-carry runes for malphite. Blargh.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-10 15:27:49
July 10 2012 15:27 GMT
#805
What? Your pantheon and ad carry runes are basically exactly the same. Make one of them a flat armour/armour/armour/mr page or something.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 10 2012 15:28 GMT
#806
The only "shit"champ is eve, and that is just because her base stats are THAT bad. But thats intentional by riot. Every other champ is playable.

But even eve dominates if you get enough items to overcome the wall that is your base stats. Its just STUPIDLY hard to do. An eve that is ahead of everyone else is actually a really scary character.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
July 10 2012 15:36 GMT
#807
On July 11 2012 00:25 Broetchenholer wrote:
Well, considering the runebook discussion, i've got a problem myself right now.

I've got:

AD-Carry: AD Quints and reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues
Support: GP quints, ap reds, armor yellows and mana blues i think. (stop bashing me about it)
Pantheon: AD Quints, Arpen reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues
Udyr: AS Quints and reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues
AP-Carry: AP Quints and reds, sth yellow, mr/lvl blues.

Where do i fit Top Malphite? Or any caster i want to use top? I need Armor, so can't use ap carry. i DOnt want to hit champs, so pantheon is out, udyr is out because my autattack is already so weak, why would i want to hit faster? Support could be ok, but still really not that great, so i used my ad-carry runes for malphite. Blargh.


Malphite's niche, I have a page dedicated just to him. Like Slayer91 said, your Panth and AD are basically the same, you can probably replace one.

Or buy a 6th page.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
July 10 2012 15:37 GMT
#808
An anyone that's "ahead of everyone else" is pretty damned scary, with very few exceptions. If I get fed a dozen kills on Cait, she can be very scary, but that doesn't make her the best AD carries or even really good compared to someone like Kog/Vayne/Corki.
It's your boy Guzma!
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
July 10 2012 15:39 GMT
#809
Malphites not really a nice, his W gives him AD bonus and it helps you last hit so running a standard AD reds/armour/armour/mr lvl and AD reds/armour/mr/mr which are the 2 pages I use for top lane work fine on him depending on what you lane against, even if the optimal is to use armour reds. (I have this one but don't always use it)
Most top laners at least that I play work better with defensive quints anyway.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
July 10 2012 15:39 GMT
#810
Well the issue with Eve gets to be that in order to be even (stats wise) with everyone, she needs to be ahead of everyone (farm wise). An eve on even farm is still shit, but an eve with a bit more farm is even with everyone, and actually does pretty well.

Its kinds stupid thou, cuz its really hard to measure with her. My experience is you either get a huge boost from your team early and go around raping shit or you dont and you die. a lot.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
July 10 2012 15:43 GMT
#811
What would you say are the top 5 jungle picks atm?
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
parkin
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
1080 Posts
July 10 2012 15:44 GMT
#812
Riot really hates Janna, QQ.
mostly harmless
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-10 15:48:52
July 10 2012 15:47 GMT
#813
On July 11 2012 00:43 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
What would you say are the top 5 jungle picks atm?

Alistar, Nautilus, Amumu, Malphite, Maokai IMO

honorable mentions to Noct, Mundo, and Lee, but beefy CC frontliners are king right now if you ask me.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
July 10 2012 15:51 GMT
#814
On July 11 2012 00:47 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2012 00:43 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
What would you say are the top 5 jungle picks atm?

Alistar, Nautilus, Amumu, Malphite, Maokai IMO

honorable mentions to Noct, Mundo, and Lee, but beefy CC frontliners are king right now if you ask me.


Ban cow all day. Fk dat level 2 gonk.

Smash's list is pretty spot on. The 5 I play atm are Naut, Mao, Mundo, Shy, Noc.
Haven't tried Amumu and Malphite since they got popular again.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
July 10 2012 15:54 GMT
#815
Amumu king. I think I'm just playing Amumu every time I can from here on out. Top lane been too fucking frustrating.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
July 10 2012 15:54 GMT
#816
Don't forget about Hecarim. He's making his way to the NA server imo. He's huge on Korea and I've started seeing a lot more sick Hecarims on NA now.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
July 10 2012 15:55 GMT
#817
On July 11 2012 00:54 Mogwai wrote:
Amumu king. I think I'm just playing Amumu every time I can from here on out. Top lane been too fucking frustrating.

Top lane is so stupid. Either win hard or get camped and lose hard. That's why the only top laner I play is Lee, can't get camped.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
July 10 2012 15:55 GMT
#818
On July 11 2012 00:54 Mogwai wrote:
Amumu king. I think I'm just playing Amumu every time I can from here on out. Top lane been too fucking frustrating.


Go pull a HSGG.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
July 10 2012 15:55 GMT
#819
that's true actually, Hecarim might be better than Mao/Malph and I still can't exactly figure out how...
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
July 10 2012 15:57 GMT
#820
Hecarim feels like one of those old school farm junglers to me. Sort of like Shyvana but is actually relevant. If people can adapt the old Saint style (xj9 has but he doesn't actually play on a team or anything) I can see Hecarim being top top tier in competitive play.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
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