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United States47024 Posts
On July 10 2012 14:00 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 13:33 TheYango wrote:On July 10 2012 13:22 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't think either warwick or nunu are really representative of what a jungler should be. Neither has good ganks at early levels. In fact without red on Warwick, you normally don't have any CC. Nunu has his E, so he at least can gank early on (but in my experience he lacks damage). I also feel like nunu needs to counterjungle to be effective. There's no such thing as a perfect jungler to get started with. Both warwick and nunu are fine because they have an easy time sustaining themselves in the jungle and they aren't reliant on blue buff so they don't suffer from getting invaded. Most new junglers are concerned they won't be able to sustain themselves. Other sustainy junglers include trundle and I think cho'gath to a degree. Sion sustains his health quite well throughout but his shield and ult cost quite a bit of mana.
I personally ended up trying all sorts of junglers, jungling everything I could get. We jungle enthusiasts have all probably jungled heimer before (in a bot game?). I think my first junglers were nunu and sion, but then I transitioned to kayle and nothing else has been as interesting. lol Snowball+Blood Boil ganks not good enough apparently. huehuehue Reason why Nunu and WW are suggested is because they have top notch sustain and good ganks. Not sure in what world you're on obesechickn13, that you would suggest Trundle, Cho and even Sion over the previously mentioned two.
It's interesting that he brings up Trundle because there's like a grand total of like two people in the world who play/build Trundle correctly. So much for easy.
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As a nooby jungler myself I would go Malphite as one of the easier junglers. Faces the same sub par pre 6 gank problems as WW, but he is still useful even if you mess up ganks or in your jungle because of his utility in teamfights.
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WW is a pretty shitty jungler to start with these days. Almost no impact during early laning, which lets enemy lanes overextend more than normal and ganks are pretty much press R when up, else afk and wait. Nunu is all about positioning and timing things correctly. Nunu is also geared at counterjungling strategically, which is not an area to start new junglers.
Alistar is pretty easy to play and pretty much has an effect throughout the game as either initiator or peeler. He is permaban, though. All you have to do is learn how to combo (which is pretty damn simple since all you do is press q immediately after w).
Naut is also pretty easy and has game-long presence, though he falls off a bit really late since doing 0 damage makes you much less of a threat, even with high CC. His ult more or less negates needing to be good at skillshots in a lot of situations.
Amumu is a little harder than Naut and relies more on hitting his bandage, though flash ult into Q is as good a method as any. He is mana hungry early and really needs items to get to his strong point. He's easily disrupted, though so is Naut.
Skarner is disproportionately good at lower Elo/levels than at higher because he is largely independent of skillshots and can easily punish mistakes with his ult (not to mention people being much worse at getting/using QSS). He's really mana starved and really needs ganks, though.
Udyr is very easy, but christ he is boring to play. He's as good as any place to start since he's cheap, never banned, and can adapt to pressure easily (clears fast, can counter jungle, has pretty good damage).
I think if you were to pick any one champ for a new player to jungle with, it would be Udyr. He's just so simple to play and so easy to clear with in sub-optimal conditions. Yes, there are nuances to improve play, but his skill ceiling is also much lower than many other champions.
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What... what about the Seneschal of Demacia, Xin Zhao? Beastly ganks with innate sustain. Sure he doesn't scale as well as most junglers, but once he gets rolling there's not too much to think about other than dunking on people.
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Suffers from the needs too much stuff to do his job syndrome.
He either lacks damage or lacks the ability to tank any damage.
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none of u junglers want to help me????
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Nunu jungle is so strong.
I'm not really sure how to build him though. Bruiser, tanky AP or tanky support? It's all situational, but what's the generally best way to do it?
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Top Nunu is total BS right now. Lane forever, harass forever, stupidly retarded steroid, ult kills everything, solos baron like no tomorrow.
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On July 10 2012 13:42 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 13:22 obesechicken13 wrote:
I personally ended up trying all sorts of junglers, jungling everything I could get. We jungle enthusiasts have all probably jungled heimer before (in a bot game?). I think my first junglers were nunu and sion, but then I transitioned to kayle and nothing else has been as interesting. Lol i was shocked when heimer could clear as fast as a lot of junglers at full hp. and with long range and a 1.5 second stun his ganks aren't terrible as long as you aim properly. too fun and definitely can't fit into the current support-tank heavy jungle.
except you'll never hit that slowass grenade on someone who isnt standing still
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On July 10 2012 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:
Top Nunu is total BS right now. Lane forever, harass forever, stupidly retarded steroid, ult kills everything, solos baron like no tomorrow.
Pretty funny right?
"Okay he just crushed me in lane but that's what he does, but even though he has double my minion kills he's going to be useless late and that's when... What the heck, Baron at 15:30??"
It's like the old Shaco except Nunu doesn't need to setup boxes before baron, he can just go there
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Trundle has awesome jungle sustain, but pretty sure its not better than WW/Nunu sustain.
On July 10 2012 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:
Top Nunu is total BS right now. Lane forever, harass forever, stupidly retarded steroid, ult kills everything, solos baron like no tomorrow.
Yeah, he makes laning a living hell for 99% of tops, but when it comes to a team fight, don't believe Nunu will contribute much outside of him getting off a full Arctic Circle. Of course his steroid is still ridiculously beast on your AD carry.
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On July 10 2012 14:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 14:00 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 10 2012 13:33 TheYango wrote:On July 10 2012 13:22 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't think either warwick or nunu are really representative of what a jungler should be. Neither has good ganks at early levels. In fact without red on Warwick, you normally don't have any CC. Nunu has his E, so he at least can gank early on (but in my experience he lacks damage). I also feel like nunu needs to counterjungle to be effective. There's no such thing as a perfect jungler to get started with. Both warwick and nunu are fine because they have an easy time sustaining themselves in the jungle and they aren't reliant on blue buff so they don't suffer from getting invaded. Most new junglers are concerned they won't be able to sustain themselves. Other sustainy junglers include trundle and I think cho'gath to a degree. Sion sustains his health quite well throughout but his shield and ult cost quite a bit of mana.
I personally ended up trying all sorts of junglers, jungling everything I could get. We jungle enthusiasts have all probably jungled heimer before (in a bot game?). I think my first junglers were nunu and sion, but then I transitioned to kayle and nothing else has been as interesting. lol Snowball+Blood Boil ganks not good enough apparently. huehuehue Reason why Nunu and WW are suggested is because they have top notch sustain and good ganks. Not sure in what world you're on obesechickn13, that you would suggest Trundle, Cho and even Sion over the previously mentioned two. It's interesting that he brings up Trundle because there's like a grand total of like two people in the world who play/build Trundle correctly. So much for easy.
and that would be how? maybe i give it a shot, i like champions noone plays.
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On July 10 2012 15:34 Cloud9157 wrote:Trundle has awesome jungle sustain, but pretty sure its not better than WW/Nunu sustain. Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:
Top Nunu is total BS right now. Lane forever, harass forever, stupidly retarded steroid, ult kills everything, solos baron like no tomorrow. Yeah, he makes laning a living hell for 99% of tops, but when it comes to a team fight, don't believe Nunu will contribute much outside of him getting off a full Arctic Circle. Of course his steroid is still ridiculously beast on your AD carry.
After getting shitted on for 4 games, I decided to play Nunu top myself. I didn't do really well and only managed to stay merely slightly ahead my opponent Jayce, but at the 20th minute a teamfight broke out, which we barely won by 2-1. We were left with me at almost full HP and the other three with like 200 HP. Then we baroned while I tanked all of the damage (I am pretty sure I even had a revolver at the time), something that is not possible if I wasn't Nunu... we pretty much won the game at that point.
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On July 10 2012 15:00 1ntrigue wrote:
Nunu jungle is so strong.
I'm not really sure how to build him though. Bruiser, tanky AP or tanky support? It's all situational, but what's the generally best way to do it?
I played a couple games tonight and built similar to Udyr. Philo -> Wit's -> Aegis -> Shurelia's. I KS'd the crap out of the TL B crew while doing it. Wit's is probably unnecessary, but since I was stealing all the kills I went for it anyway. It allowed me to 1v1 a solo top Rumble who'd been giving Gandhi hell.
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On July 10 2012 14:53 samthesaluki wrote:
none of u junglers want to help me????
what are you testing?
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United States47024 Posts
On July 10 2012 15:34 Cloud9157 wrote:
Trundle has awesome jungle sustain, but pretty sure its not better than WW/Nunu sustain.
It's pretty stupid to argue which of the 3 is "better" when all 3 pretty much stay full health 100% of the time while jungling.
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so this new nunu. What is the minimal item required to solo baron?
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Also, "recommended for new junglers" usually means "if you are not lvl 30 yet, and don't have runes/all masteries, but still want to jungle", which narrows it down pretty hard to stuff with enough innate sustain to work without runes.
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On July 10 2012 17:12 nosliw wrote:
so this new nunu. What is the minimal item required to solo baron?
I don't think it is possible to solo baron. Although it will help you greatly to have Frozen Heart/Revolver/CDR.
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On July 10 2012 15:53 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 15:00 1ntrigue wrote:
Nunu jungle is so strong.
I'm not really sure how to build him though. Bruiser, tanky AP or tanky support? It's all situational, but what's the generally best way to do it? I played a couple games tonight and built similar to Udyr. Philo -> Wit's -> Aegis -> Shurelia's. I KS'd the crap out of the TL B crew while doing it. Wit's is probably unnecessary, but since I was stealing all the kills I went for it anyway. It allowed me to 1v1 a solo top Rumble who'd been giving Gandhi hell.
No wriggles? I'm willing to believe that you can still jungle well enough—boots+3 start, AD reds, armor yellows, MR blues and MS quints because of his Q aa reset, AS steroid and lack of hard gap closer I guess?—since with a vamp he's pretty much set to stay forever in the jungle, so philo could cut it, but isn't it slow? No AoE clear, no wriggle to speed up the process, and you give up on a lot of dragon threat this way (even post-ult nerf he can still solo drake at 6 with boots+wriggles, may take 1-2 pots and blue helps to do it faster).
Shurelya makes sense tho, as for Udyr. What I liked with him was the way you can focus on either damage or tankiness depending on the needs of the team, grab a phage and either go bruta trinity, or aegis mallet. Plus his W+E and later ult allow him to run exhaust without too much risk, Mundo style.
How would you level his skills too? Apart from the obvious R > Q, I tended to skill W and E evenly, taking E at 3 or 4 depending on gank needs.
On July 10 2012 17:26 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 17:12 nosliw wrote:
so this new nunu. What is the minimal item required to solo baron? I don't think it is possible to solo baron. Although it will help you greatly to have Frozen Heart/Revolver/CDR.
It is. Look at the first pages of the thread, a video was posted. He built AP/CDR iirc.
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EPT
