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On June 13 2012 07:10 Alaric wrote:
Always have to do the jungling when I play with nooby friends as those who can don't want to, well I'll call that training, and then I pick Maokai and weep because I can camp all I want they farm so badly and have mechanics so poor we can never convert it into a kill even when I have red buff, unless it's Ashe and she can right-click them without thinking or something. T_T
Didn't think about clinging onto an axe until I have 2 then rushing my opponent as Draven, but I've mostly had problem doing that as farming and maintaining the axes for long can be tricky, and his 500 range makes it hard to get a jab at your opponents without making your intent obvious, or being in position to eat free harass in the first place.
you don't have to even throw more than normal, it has a decent active time. I can't give the exact time because I don't own the character, but it seems like you can auto just enough to last hit without dropping the buff. and if for some reason you fuck up the studder so the axe is going to drop within the opponents range just fuck it and start over.
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On June 13 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 06:59 ArC_man wrote:On June 13 2012 06:29 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno chain CCs seem pretty gay to me anyway, it's fine if they are escapable. Not sure if serious... What? I don't like the concept of not being able to do anythign for 5+ seconds, I'll accept that it's part of the game but I don't mind a high CD spell being able to get out of it.
I agree with this sentiment completely. IMO kills should only happen when the player getting killed makes a mistake. I'm also happy with games that have very low kill counts (both spectating and playing) because I find the strategy aspect of the game far more appealing than kills, kills, kills (I absolutely hate deathmatch FPS games too, since that's mostly all they are about). I realize I'm in an extreme minority here though.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 13 2012 07:44 Goragoth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:On June 13 2012 06:59 ArC_man wrote:On June 13 2012 06:29 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno chain CCs seem pretty gay to me anyway, it's fine if they are escapable. Not sure if serious... What? I don't like the concept of not being able to do anythign for 5+ seconds, I'll accept that it's part of the game but I don't mind a high CD spell being able to get out of it. I agree with this sentiment completely. IMO kills should only happen when the player getting killed makes a mistake. I'm also happy with games that have very low kill counts (both spectating and playing) because I find the strategy aspect of the game far more appealing than kills, kills, kills (I absolutely hate deathmatch FPS games too, since that's mostly all they are about). I realize I'm in an extreme minority here though.
Apparently getting in range to get chain-CCed when you're playing a champ that's a high-enough value target to be worth chain-CCing doesn't constitute a mistake anymore.
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It does however from design perspective its a question of do they want that type of stuff to happen. Maybe it would actually be good for the game. I don't know. I just didn't like the idea, from LoL casual design perspective it's "anti-fun".
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United States47024 Posts
On June 13 2012 07:49 Slayer91 wrote:
It does however from design perspective its a question of do they want that type of stuff to happen. Maybe it would actually be good for the game. I don't know. I just didn't like the idea, from LoL casual design perspective it's "anti-fun".
I can understand that. I just don't like the argument of "kills should only happen when people make mistakes", because by stretching your definition of what a mistake is, you can really use that to support any sort of change that makes the game more forgiving.
EDIT: The other thing wrong with "kills should only happen when the person being killed makes a mistake" is that it doesn't allow room for sacrificial gameplay. Baiting a whole team's focus and sacrificing yourself to allow your team to make a turnaround ace is a hard decision to make that can be very rewarding. I don't think anyone has ever been in the situation where that happened and said "Man, my team turnaround aced them in exchange for just me dying, and got an inhib off of it, but I died! This game SUCKS!"
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timing your cc to hit perfectly as your teammates cc is about to end is both rewarding and fun
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Is PVP.net Client f'ed up for any1 else? Mine is like really f'ed up hard right now. Like crazy laggy, my internet is fine though.
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I would feel robbed if I chained cc properly and they could just flash out of it.
Not sure it's actually happening though.
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On June 13 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 06:59 ArC_man wrote:On June 13 2012 06:29 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno chain CCs seem pretty gay to me anyway, it's fine if they are escapable. Not sure if serious... What? I don't like the concept of not being able to do anythign for 5+ seconds, I'll accept that it's part of the game but I don't mind a high CD spell being able to get out of it.
That's why there's Cleanse though.
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On June 13 2012 07:38 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:10 Alaric wrote:
Always have to do the jungling when I play with nooby friends as those who can don't want to, well I'll call that training, and then I pick Maokai and weep because I can camp all I want they farm so badly and have mechanics so poor we can never convert it into a kill even when I have red buff, unless it's Ashe and she can right-click them without thinking or something. T_T
Didn't think about clinging onto an axe until I have 2 then rushing my opponent as Draven, but I've mostly had problem doing that as farming and maintaining the axes for long can be tricky, and his 500 range makes it hard to get a jab at your opponents without making your intent obvious, or being in position to eat free harass in the first place. you don't have to even throw more than normal, it has a decent active time. I can't give the exact time because I don't own the character, but it seems like you can auto just enough to last hit without dropping the buff. and if for some reason you fuck up the studder so the axe is going to drop within the opponents range just fuck it and start over.
The buff lasts for 8 seconds, so if you attack an enemy as soon as the 2nd Q is available you'll only need to hit the minions once to maintain hit. What I wanted to stay with regard to the enemy carry's range is that if you try to walk up to, say, Ashe or Graves, they'll just volley/buckshot/aa you and run, using their superior range, unless your support cc them or you burn W to catch them.
Well, I'm not that good at playing AD carries (read: I'm awful) but from what I've experience, people seem to run the axe the same as if you told them "Ashe's passive made it so her next attack will crit". It's not too easy to zone because of his short range, but I had to really run straight at them to catch them because they'd stay out of range and run as soon as I looked at them.
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On the cc topic, one change I wouldn't mind seeing is having tenacity affect all forms of cc including knock-ups, i.e. just have the knock-up smaller.
Edit: and make suppression immune to QSS so that QSS and cleanse have the same properties and that suppression gives a special, higher form of cc
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United States47024 Posts
On June 13 2012 08:37 1ntrigue wrote:
Edit: and make suppression immune to QSS so that QSS and cleanse have the same properties and that suppression gives a special, higher form of cc
Even if you changed that, QSS and Cleanse wouldn't be the same. QSS removes ANY debuff, not just crowd control. Cleanse only removes CC.
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They made suppression > cleanse so that a single summoner spell didn't outright counter champs like ww and malz at the time. They allowed QSS to counter it by removing suppression because you're actually itemizing against it.
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On June 13 2012 08:29 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:38 Slusher wrote:On June 13 2012 07:10 Alaric wrote:
Always have to do the jungling when I play with nooby friends as those who can don't want to, well I'll call that training, and then I pick Maokai and weep because I can camp all I want they farm so badly and have mechanics so poor we can never convert it into a kill even when I have red buff, unless it's Ashe and she can right-click them without thinking or something. T_T
Didn't think about clinging onto an axe until I have 2 then rushing my opponent as Draven, but I've mostly had problem doing that as farming and maintaining the axes for long can be tricky, and his 500 range makes it hard to get a jab at your opponents without making your intent obvious, or being in position to eat free harass in the first place. you don't have to even throw more than normal, it has a decent active time. I can't give the exact time because I don't own the character, but it seems like you can auto just enough to last hit without dropping the buff. and if for some reason you fuck up the studder so the axe is going to drop within the opponents range just fuck it and start over. The buff lasts for 8 seconds, so if you attack an enemy as soon as the 2nd Q is available you'll only need to hit the minions once to maintain hit. What I wanted to stay with regard to the enemy carry's range is that if you try to walk up to, say, Ashe or Graves, they'll just volley/buckshot/aa you and run, using their superior range, unless your support cc them or you burn W to catch them. Well, I'm not that good at playing AD carries (read: I'm awful) but from what I've experience, people seem to run the axe the same as if you told them "Ashe's passive made it so her next attack will crit". It's not too easy to zone because of his short range, but I had to really run straight at them to catch them because they'd stay out of range and run as soon as I looked at them.
if they run they are zoned mission accomplished, if they come back close burn your speed boost.
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Man it's ridiculous how a few good rocket grabs can snowball the bottom lane.
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On June 13 2012 07:50 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:49 Slayer91 wrote:
It does however from design perspective its a question of do they want that type of stuff to happen. Maybe it would actually be good for the game. I don't know. I just didn't like the idea, from LoL casual design perspective it's "anti-fun". I can understand that. I just don't like the argument of "kills should only happen when people make mistakes", because by stretching your definition of what a mistake is, you can really use that to support any sort of change that makes the game more forgiving. EDIT: The other thing wrong with "kills should only happen when the person being killed makes a mistake" is that it doesn't allow room for sacrificial gameplay. Baiting a whole team's focus and sacrificing yourself to allow your team to make a turnaround ace is a hard decision to make that can be very rewarding. I don't think anyone has ever been in the situation where that happened and said "Man, my team turnaround aced them in exchange for just me dying, and got an inhib off of it, but I died! This game SUCKS!"
Agreed. A better philosophy would be "kills only happen when one or more players capitalize on an enemy weakness." Sure you can cover some of your weaknesses with wards, fast reflexes, game sense, etc., but every reward in the game should have some sort of risk involved (even if it's just "leaving fountain to try and get gold in lane").
The fact that people focus so much more on players' mistakes than the players who capitalize on them is why every pro player "sucks" at this game, depending on who you ask. Sure it's easy to spot the mistakes and opportunities from a spectator's perspective, but in-game you're busy with cs, harass, ganking, and planning that bringing your teammates together to take a few coordinated (but mechanically simple) plays can be a monumental feat.
/rant
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I just saw a Zilean support do that. He didn't ward the bush much, so Ashe got grabbed, then Zil went "oh well, if she must die she won't go alone". He ended the laning phase something like 5-2, grabs so good at baiting people to clump up for AoE.
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On June 13 2012 09:08 Zhiroo wrote:
Man it's ridiculous how a few good rocket grabs can snowball the bottom lane.
Blitz is my least favorite support to see down there. Not only is it a CC, it's a CC that completely fucks you over most of the time, even moreso than Taric stun, Janna Q, or Ali's combo. Well, maybe not Alistar's, but it's easier to pull off and safer as well. Which is why I'm going to master him MUAHAHAHA
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On June 13 2012 08:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 08:37 1ntrigue wrote:
Edit: and make suppression immune to QSS so that QSS and cleanse have the same properties and that suppression gives a special, higher form of cc Even if you changed that, QSS and Cleanse wouldn't be the same. QSS removes ANY debuff, not just crowd control. Cleanse only removes CC.
Cleanse also removes ignite which isn't cc. Actually it removes the damage part, don't know if the healling debuff too.
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EPT
