On June 07 2012 07:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
I think of E as a teamfight skill at this point, I don't see the benefit of dumping more than one point into it.

It's by far his best ganking skill past the first rank because of how you get the MS buff on all laners involved as well.

NSANE.hydra

United States644 Posts

June 06 2012 23:17 GMT

#382

long ago when people jungled gangplank, i remember theoddone maxing E. dunno the numbers, but i suppose the thought process is that raising everyone's AD by a certain amount > having a little more dmg on Q. maxing E is better for teamfights without a doubt, but maxing Q would most likely be better for ganks. all speculation though, i haven't played gangplank in awhile >.<

edit: tbh i would say it depends on the laners/enemy jungle.

gtrsrs

United States9109 Posts

June 06 2012 23:18 GMT

#383

max E, it's his ganking and fighting skill
his other skills are just gravy
although GP is just flat out bad in the jungle for the mostpart IMO

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

June 06 2012 23:18 GMT

#384

I prefer maxing Gangplank's E in the jungle. It's more damage than Q, more mana efficient, and more helpful in teamfights. You could max Q first, but it's hard to sustain its use in the jungle without blue/Philo, and you end up losing some gold anyway due to your slower clear speed.

Sermokala

United States13812 Posts

June 06 2012 23:19 GMT

#385

on paper ap yi makes a lot of sense I think. But in every game I play he just keeps getting instagibbed in a fight and can't match up against the stun and gun ap mids.

I left lol for a few months and everything is just werid now. and a ton worse it feels ( the players and the champs they play that is).

UniversalSnip

9871 Posts

June 06 2012 23:20 GMT

#386

your allies get 1.5% movespeed per point you put into it

half a janna passive, op

MooMooMugi

United States10531 Posts

June 06 2012 23:20 GMT

#387

E also gives really nice movement speed which is really nice if you spec 9 in utility and build Triforce

Navi

5286 Posts

June 06 2012 23:25 GMT

#388

On June 07 2012 07:16 57 Corvette wrote:
I wonder why I never see anyone (except me of course) talking about Gragas. Is he boring? Is there just not much to say about him? I know Shushei played him a lot but do any other pros play him often?

Regi is probably the most notable Gragas player that has played him successfully in the recent past - Shushei unfortunately will probably need some time to get back into his previous form and a proper team to utilize his Gragas with.

I find Gragas very fun, his only weakness in solo queue is his mediocre pre-6 laning phase. There are a select few matchups that you can bully with good usage of your E, but most will be reduced to you eating free harass while grabbing lasthits and occasionally attempting to Q in retaliation - if you can hit most or all of your Qs the lane can be manageable, but if you miss most against a good player (or said good player dodges them) you will find yourself being down quite a few CS in lane.

However, post-6 all matchups stabilize because you have a kill threat on anybody (as well as being able to assist / easily escape from most ganks) with good skillshot usage and your clear becomes increasingly time and mana efficient (amongst the overall best clearers because you can apply your skillshot from a extreme range, so in winning matchups you can start pushing the wave while it has barely hit the enemy's own tower or in losing matchups farm from absolute safety). You are also more mobile than most APs with your low CD-E, and are a potent ganker for any lane (the ult in particular is devestating in bottom lane and counterganks for any lane) and as just mentioned an even better counterganker - this means you can play two styles - a clearer who roams and ganks and applies pressure, or farms his own wraiths and the enemy's if possible while clearing and looking for a countergank opportunity when the enemy AP and/or jungler goes for a gank.

In an arranged setting, with proper help from your jungler early on (and if the jungler is someone who ganks often or does not mind ceding his own wraiths, that is great as well) you can utilize Gragas to great effect.

In solo queue, he is still very viable - his lategame repositioning threat makes him one of the best lategame casters, and his ability to farm makes him a beast for carrying in general. You may have to cede some CS early on, but if your opponent eats too many barrels they may even find themselves losing lane early on, which is usually a recipe for disaster (for them). Knowing when to lasthit with Q or to go for the (counter)harassment is usually the most difficult decision to make in lane.

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

June 06 2012 23:31 GMT

#389

I wish I had a replay of a game I played as Gragas vs a Zilean. I think I used my full MR page and just tanked bombs while farming for the first four minutes. I'd like to go back and see wtf I did because I ended up going 4-0 in lane and carried the hell out of the game.

Gragas so fun though, and it's hilarious to see him get Lulu ulted.

Dark_Chill

Canada3353 Posts

June 06 2012 23:39 GMT

#390

On June 07 2012 08:19 Sermokala wrote:
on paper ap yi makes a lot of sense I think. But in every game I play he just keeps getting instagibbed in a fight and can't match up against the stun and gun ap mids.

I left lol for a few months and everything is just werid now. and a ton worse it feels ( the players and the champs they play that is).

I haven't tried it, but would ap transitioning to ad work? Ap Yi is pretty hard to deal with early imo, so it could technically be possible.

EpicPleasure

United States164 Posts

June 06 2012 23:40 GMT

#391

anyone here happen to main support at the 1850~2k eloz by chance? :x

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

June 06 2012 23:41 GMT

#392

Gragas is pretty awesome. His laning phase is pretty weak until he can start 1 shotting creeps. I usually go doran ring stack into deathcap. You usually don't need the extra health on grags, mostly because in teamfight situations his long range prevents him from getting hard engaged on. But to each his own I suppose

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

June 06 2012 23:45 GMT

#393

On June 07 2012 08:40 EpicPleasure wrote:
anyone here happen to main support at the 1850~2k eloz by chance? :x

ive played a lot of support in solo queue

Goshawk.

United Kingdom5338 Posts

June 06 2012 23:47 GMT

#394

On June 07 2012 08:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:

Show nested quote +

ive played a lot of support in solo queue

me2, I don't main it but if you have a question ask away. :p

Cloud9157

United States2968 Posts

June 06 2012 23:47 GMT

#395

Never play support because everyone in this game is bad except for you.

Alay

United States660 Posts

June 06 2012 23:51 GMT

#396

I still jungle GP from time to time, but he's really not that great. Can still carry bads though...

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

June 07 2012 00:02 GMT

#397

On June 07 2012 08:20 UniversalSnip wrote:
your allies get 1.5% movespeed per point you put into it

half a janna passive, op

Often the difference between getting to autoattack someone and not is simply whether you move faster than them or not, regardless of how much faster.

And yes, in jungle, E is more damage than Q spam because you get to stand and autoattack. Q is better in lane because you don't get to stand and hit people for the whole duration, but in jungle E is faster while also being more mana efficient.

EpicPleasure

United States164 Posts

June 07 2012 00:06 GMT

#398

Reason I'm asking is I'm looking for a support to duo with possibly~

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

June 07 2012 00:12 GMT

#399

On June 07 2012 09:06 EpicPleasure wrote:
Reason I'm asking is I'm looking for a support to duo with possibly~

it's a bad idea to duo w/ a support, mostly because if both players are decent, you can exert more game control with separate lane controls (such AD + Jungler, or Mid+jungler, or Top + mid, etc etc). If you're having a huge list of bad supports, just play caitlyn as AD carry, she can farm well without a decent support.

Lmui

Canada6210 Posts

June 07 2012 00:14 GMT

#400

I figured I'd post some thoughts on laning against draven as a few ADs.

Vayne:

Draven hits harder, much much harder early game. At lower levels, he will outtrade you anywhere from 1-5 hits because of his passive and the strength of spinning axe compared to tumble. Until level 3, there's no chance of outtrading him. Once you have condemn, it's possible to tumble-> auto ->condemn -> auto and crush his health bar while taking minimal damage (One hit with spinning blades). It's insanely mana intensive but it also keeps him from trading with impunity. Trading a few autoattacks pretty much always benefits darius, especially if he has two spinning blades up unless you get off silver bolts and at least one tumble'd auto.

Caitlyn:

Extremely easy to abuse draven. Take a free shot every time he goes for a lasthit. He either abandons the lasthit or else eats the harass. If he has to move anywhere but backwards for the axe, you can shoot him a second time. If you can predict it, throwing a trap under the spot where the axe will land is also somewhat effective (throwing somewhat random traps around the area where he wants to lasthit from is also effective). He's stronger if he can shoot you but that's a huge if. He has no dash no low mana cost/high damage skillshot (His E is not reliable for this purpose), just a MS buff and his E is not really viable to trade with. It's easier to win than Caitlyn vs Vayne IMO. 1v1, he will beat you but in lane, you should crush him into the ground (somewhat support dependent).

Kogmaw:

I've only had one match against draven as Kog. If Draven plays aggressive early, use W to last hit the ranged creeps. He can beat kog handily until kog gets ooze and can kite draven. At 6 and beyond, just ulti wherever the axe is going to land. If you made it to 6 alive and well the lane should slowly swing in favour of kog.