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To add on about Kass and Sion.
I wouldn't say Kass's laning is weak, it's more that it's very easily countered. People don't play Kass in high level tourneys because it's very easy for the other team to just counterpick or even just lane swap to screw over Kassadin. Kass trashes a lot of popular AP mids, but he also gets trashed by a lot of champs as well. He's just extremely situational.
I've seen AD Sion go jungle and it mitigates his weak laning, but the biggest problem with AD Sion is that he requires a ton of farm to get the ball rolling. In high level competitive play your team will be playing at a big disadvantage until you get that farm and the other team will be good enough to punish you for it.
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oh man elementz + liquid is just a recipe for disaster lol...though to be fair, 4not is really well coordinated right now.
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I dunno, I think Kass laning pretty weak. You run a runepage on like any caster that's like AD reds, then full flatMR just auto him whenever you in range, and you'll just zone him so hard, he wont even be able to last hit. His only ranged spell his Q, once thats down just kick him in the nuts. Two autos will do more damage than a Q, and his Q has a 9 second CD on it. he should never get in range to auto/E you until six so just autoing him twice wins you the trade, any extra is gravy, and thats without taking advantage of the 9 second window where he can't hit you. Realistically, you should be able to auto him any time he is remotely near his creeps... if he is you win the trade epically, if he not you just get free CS.
He can't really win trades if you're smart. He a very specific "anti-caster" champ, and all casters have huge range advanatge. Auto attacks OP. By 6 you should just have huge lead on him.
I could be horribly wrong though, only mids I really play well are Kennen/Vlad and the occasional troll fiddlesticks.
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Yeah, you're pretty wrong. His Q range is about on par with any targetted nuke and usually hits for more, so he will out trade you before 6 unless you get lines to land either a line skillshot or a circle one where he's minion blocked. Once he's 6 he just can ult to close range gap then silence + slow you which means you can't react until silence ends, but also can't follow since you're slowed. Note that even in low level trades you're getting silenced before your second skill can go off in most situations.
Champs that beat Kass basically can ignore some combination of the above (e.g. an AD can just attack him while silenced).
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On May 26 2012 10:47 iCanada wrote:
I dunno, I think Kass laning pretty weak. You run a runepage on like any caster that's like AD reds, then full flatMR just auto him whenever you in range, and you'll just zone him so hard, he wont even be able to last hit. His only ranged spell his Q, once thats down just kick him in the nuts. Two autos will do more damage than a Q, and his Q has a 9 second CD on it. he should never get in range to auto/E you until six so just autoing him twice wins you the trade, any extra is gravy, and thats without taking advantage of the 9 second window where he can't hit you. Realistically, you should be able to auto him any time he is remotely near his creeps... if he is you win the trade epically, if he not you just get free CS.
He can't really win trades if you're smart. He a very specific "anti-caster" champ, and all casters have huge range advanatge. Auto attacks OP. By 6 you should just have huge lead on him.
I could be horribly wrong though, only mids I really play well are Kennen/Vlad and the occasional troll fiddlesticks.
In my experience, if I run armor runes a Kass Q is a fair trade with a couple autos. I could be wrong, but that's just my experience with Kass. Tho idk if anyone at my elo is brave enough to do what you're saying and run AD reds on a caster mid. That might change things up a bit.
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If autos are really a problem due to no armor runes or the other guy stacking AD, you can just play safe and let yourself be zoned for the first couple levels. Once you hit 3 and have lvl 2 Q, you can outtrade most APs relatively easily.
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Darius most broken shit i've ever seen in existance l0l. It makes the pre-nerf irelia or gp look like a tame little puppy.
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Does Darius get beat by those who can kite him like Olaf? It was pretty hilarious how an Ezreal was able to make a Darius rage quit in one of my games 1v1 top. Granted the Darius was running exhaust ignite, but as long as you can outrange his grab you should only need to worry about flash pulls from Darius.
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about to play with teddyro ap ezreal.. this will be interesting :D
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On May 26 2012 12:29 Xevious wrote:
about to play with teddyro ap ezreal.. this will be interesting :D
It's pretty average. I played against it earlier and I think he went roughly even. All you have to do is dodge the ults since he'll try to run out of sight mid-fight to use it.
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On May 26 2012 12:06 BlackPaladin wrote:
Darius most broken shit i've ever seen in existance l0l. It makes the pre-nerf irelia or gp look like a tame little puppy.
Release nocturne, graves, orianna and xin zhao can compete with that i think.
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On May 26 2012 12:43 wussleeQ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 12:06 BlackPaladin wrote:
Darius most broken shit i've ever seen in existance l0l. It makes the pre-nerf irelia or gp look like a tame little puppy. Release nocturne, graves, orianna and xin zhao can compete with that i think.
Xin yeah, graves close. Ori and noct I can't agree with though, not as op as darius is atm.
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Kassadin is a very interesting champion. I think I'll start playing him. His pre-6 plays almost exactly like Katarinas. Against most champions, you're weak as shit pre-6. You rely on your jungler to gank for you so that you can mitigate the early game blow. As Katarina, you're forced to get that gank kill, otherwise you're pretty much fucked early game. I'm not sure what Kassadin would do even if he got that early gold from a kill. I can only see Kassadin waiting for that blue buff and lvl 6 to start pressuring hard and using his mobility to get kills off other lanes or opportunities. Kassadin doesn't have a hard timing where he is at her strongest, like the hopeful 15 min gunblade kat. I know that people like going mana on kassadin to charge up ult and then deal insane dmg with his combo. I know some people like mejais to really propel from mid game to get him stronger than every1 else mid game. Kassadin has 3 nukes max, with so-so scaling, and he has problems if he doesn't have something to buffer his mana, but if he gets mana, his dmg output is touched.
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I honestly never understood how to play kassadin properly post-6 yet I see kassadins who are like at 20CS or something just shit on my AP carry when they hit 6 and proceed to destroy everyone.
Unfortunately none of the streamers play kassadin either so I can't even watch someone good and learn how to play him that way.
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jiji plays him once in awhile
and is playing it on stream this second
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scarra also plays kass and is very good with him
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Swain + Grail is completely insane, and I love it since my regular duo queue partner plays a mean Swain already.
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On May 26 2012 10:29 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 10:09 schmutttt wrote:Hey guys, as a bronze newbie I have a few questions for the better players here, if someone could answer them it would be awesome  . Why don't the following champs get played much at a high level? Kassadin, AD Sion, Tryndamere If I want to get better should I just choose one role and learn all the champs for that particular role? Why does no-one seem to play GP anymore? He used to be in so many games but I haven't seen him on a pro stream for a long time. Kass and AD Sion are like stupidly weak in lane. They are dangerous as hell once they get farmed and too the late game, but getting there against good players rather difficult to say the least. ALmost every other solo lane champ just outtrades both these guys, and they both suck at farming too. I wouldn't even go as far as to say all the champs in the role... pick two or three and just get beast with them. By getting good at say Jungle Shyvana/Udyr/Mundo, you'll learn skills that will help you as a Bruiser/tank (initiating vs peeling etc), AD carry (How to not die horrible because your positioning sucks), AP (ganksing), and Support (Wardings, map awareness, babysitting). Obviously, getting good at shy makes you primarily good at Shy, but you learn other stuffs too. People dont play GP because he got a nerfed a ton (minor stuff, really) and the community is fickle as all hell. Also, his mana costs relatively now high compared to most champs, so that pushes people away because "managing mana not fun." (to quote riot)
I'm not sure I understand how you could say AD sion farms badly... His E allows him to last hit so easily it's ridiculous.... I mean I see how he could get harrasses out of lane, but farming is easy with him for me.
Actually every time I'm on a bad a bad losing streak or am not playing well, I'll pick Sion and get a free win or something. He's who I play best with.
Regarding him, has anyone tried a DSheild open? That's what I do if most of the time, and I take TP so whenever I get about 2k gold I will b and get a wriggles and boots. I really think that item is underrated in general with the recent nerfs to the other two, and I think it is more worthwhile than a cloth 5 open. I open that on some of my jungles too. Underrated item for sure.
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d-shield is great against auto-attacking mages like kennen imo
like they do enough physical to warrant armor, but enough magical to warrant hp, so cloth+5 isn't as good
go d-shield, be immovable in lane
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On May 26 2012 12:43 wussleeQ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 12:06 BlackPaladin wrote:
Darius most broken shit i've ever seen in existance l0l. It makes the pre-nerf irelia or gp look like a tame little puppy. Release nocturne, graves, orianna and xin zhao can compete with that i think.
Release ezreal, beta TF (w gate + aoe gold card stun), dat jax, old ult twitch...
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EPT
