EPTin arranged i think CV is still king, + Show Spoiler +
although there are some lanes (kill-oriented lanes like ezreal leona) that may prefer an additional ignite etc
[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 43
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Navi
5286 Posts
in arranged i think CV is still king, + Show Spoiler + as earlygame your team is more likely to defend your jungler's camps or help steal the enemies, as well as allowing your team to take the proper route to collapse onto a invading jungler in your own jungle. in the midgame-lategame knowing exactly where the enemy is / how low or high HP an objective is at (how many times have people dilly-dallied in front of baron or dragon, attempting to steal or engage when the objective in question is low, to only have it die at an unexpected time because they did not know / wards were cleared?) is important, the relative positioning of every champion is also extremely important (is irelia camping in that J brush or is she running from their red). ideally you have wards to help this but against competent oracle / pink ward using teams having that coverage is near impossible if the enemy team is in a dominant position. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 03 2012 08:27 arnath wrote: If you're trying to learn how to jungle, playing without any kind of pull whatsoever isn't a reasonably realistic situation. It puts you at really low hp during jungle clear which forces you to either a) buy starting items you wouldn't normally like Cloth +5 or b) go back to heal in a situation where you normally wouldn't. I agree that shit happens sometimes but I don't really consider this useful practice. Certainly most of the time you'll get a leash, but not all of the time. Being ready for the times you don't is part of being a jungler, the same way adapting to counter-jungling is. The difference being you can learn how to deal with a bad leash/reset by simply jumping into a custom game by yourself, while also practicing your basic execution. There are plenty of junglers who don't need to change their starting items to do this, even though they may be lower on health. Obviously if you can grab a friend and let them pull for you in custom game after custom game awesome, but unless you're trying to jungle Twitch or some other extremely fragile champion there's little reason to avoid practicing by yourself. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On March 03 2012 12:48 wei2coolman wrote: Yeah, but she has no escape at all. her lane is insanely gankable. That would make her too easy wouldn't it? She also seems to do fine vs garen. | ||
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seRapH
United States9758 Posts
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
On March 03 2012 13:01 Cloud wrote: That would make her too easy wouldn't it? She also seems to do fine vs garen. Well garen just sucks >.> Laning vs a riven or lee sin is the most frustrating thing as fiora. Actually, what beats riven in lane except for panth? I don't think I've ever lost a lane as riven | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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Juddas
768 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 03 2012 12:00 Shikyo wrote: Not always, but enough that it's so situational that exhaust is more consistently effective Disagree. Exhaust is not up for every fight. CV is not useful for every fight. But the net effect I would say is that Exhaust is up for a fight about as often as CV is useful. And in those fights, I would say that being able to assess the pre-fight positioning of every member of the enemy team is VASTLY more useful than a 2.5 second single-target slow/damage redux. On March 03 2012 13:21 Craton wrote: CV doesn't stop you from camping top lane. You only show them for 6 seconds, which is an insignificant amount of time. I would just see CV, walk away, then immediately walk back. With camping a lane you already know they're nearby, the only question is if they've left. CVing after they just walked away signals to the jungler to come back immediately because the laner will think they're safe, but it also signals that they don't have a ward (although this is likely already known). CVing and seeing the jungler in the bush just makes them waste a few extra seconds, but it doesn't change much. I'm not going to argue about CV during laning, because of the commonly picked summoners, I would agree that CV is the weakest during laning phase by a noticeable margin. But IMO once you're past laning phase, CV is no question the strongest summoner spell in the game. Particularly past the point in the game where both teams have stable oracles usage. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On March 03 2012 13:21 Craton wrote: CV doesn't stop you from camping top lane. You only show them for 6 seconds, which is an insignificant amount of time. I would just see CV, walk away, then immediately walk back. With camping a lane you already know they're nearby, the only question is if they've left. CVing after they just walked away signals to the jungler to come back immediately because the laner will think they're safe, but it also signals that they don't have a ward (although this is likely already known). CVing and seeing the jungler in the bush just makes them waste a few extra seconds, but it doesn't change much. i meant primarily before the first back. I've had a few games where top lane gets ganked 4 times before level 4, and I feel like CV would have prevented or at least mitigated some of it. Past that tho, it's up to the top laner to have wards | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 03 2012 13:45 Two_DoWn wrote: I dunno. The CD just makes it really iffy, and proper warding>cv any day. Past a point, how good your ward coverage is becomes more a function of how meticulous the enemy team is at clearing them, rather than how zealous you are at placing them--particularly when it comes to covering space that's on the enemy side of the map. These are really all the exact same arguments people raised last year when people were saying CV wasn't mandatory and said they'd rather take exhaust. Then 6 months later everyone was crying that CV needs nerfs, even when people weren't even thinking very hard about efficient CV usage and just blowing it on cooldown. IMO give it 6 months for support players to refine CV usage such that you make use of the CD carefully, and we'll be in the same place we were when CV got nerfed. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On March 03 2012 13:55 Juicyfruit wrote: Do you think it'll ever be viable for junglers to take CV instead of support? Bot lane's pretty intense these days... i dunno, i think it depends a lot. Counterjunglers def need flash, and some junglers would rather run exhaust than cv if they're not running flash. Mybe some kind of supporty type of jungler could run it like maokai | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 03 2012 13:59 barbsq wrote: i dunno, i think it depends a lot. Counterjunglers def need flash, and some junglers would rather run exhaust than cv if they're not running flash. Mybe some kind of supporty type of jungler could run it like maokai Mao needs flash. We already lose 1 summoner to smite. Its hard enough playing with a single summoner, playing without any is pretty much impossible. | ||
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valheru
Australia966 Posts
On March 03 2012 13:55 Juicyfruit wrote: Do you think it'll ever be viable for junglers to take CV instead of support? Bot lane's pretty intense these days... I'm not a jungler nor good but... the team fucking NEEDS smite otherwise lol blue steal lol red steal lol dragon steal and smite is really only useful to the jungler in the laning phase so he gets it. The jungler taking cv... eh I don't think so you have to sacrifice flash/ignite/exhaust/ghost which make you a lot less intimidating as a ganker, also it leaves a lot of junglers without an escape (rock, tree). Bot lane will benefit from the support having exhaust/ignite but the other lanes would suffer due to the smaller presence of the jungler. That's just my opinion and since I'm bad it probably isn't worth much. EDIT: lol just saw two down has exactly 5000 more posts than me  | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
i feel accomplished. the best part: after the game, grackis tried to make her feel good by saying my team is a bunch of scrubs on irc. we are scrubs, but i don't think she caught the underlying implication of his statement lolol ah i honestly didn't kno there was a brag thread as i've never checked out that thread. i've only known about the qq thread. but i'll keep that in mind next time thx | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On March 03 2012 14:24 billy5000 wrote: LOL i was irelia against this girl http://www.own3d.tv/live/130292/4Not.AMD.JULIASAURUS and just wrecked her i feel accomplished. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305322 brag thread, for future reference | ||
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