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As we all know, Ignite is extremely popular both in normal and ranked on low/mid ELO. The question is - why is it picked over other, seemingly more useful spells?
Let's compare Exhaust with Ignite, for example:
In ganking/early 2v1
- The slow granted by Exhaust should allow you to get 1-2 nukes into a fleeing target, unless your cooldowns are truly ridiculous. If more than one person is attacking, this should always outdamage Ignite.
- Exhaust gives more opportunity for chaining stuns/slows
- Exhaust forces the target to flee instead of taking one of the attackers with them, ensuring safety
In early 2v2
- Exhaust shuts down physical carries. Thus, most of a duo lane's DPS is negated, while also preventing escape
In early 1v1
- Exhaust can win a duel the same way Ignite can; Ignite can guarantee a trade instead of a loss, but won't help you survive
- In case of a jungler gank, see above
In escaping
- Exhaust can slow the stunner/biggest DPS threat. Ignite won't help at all
In late game teamfights
- an exhausted carry's nullified damage output (even after squishy targets' armor) exceeds Ignite's damage after ~3 shots, and it can also assist in chasing after the fight
Personally, I play my nukers Flash/Teleport or Flash/Clarity. I've found even a chaser such as Katarina to benefit more from Ghost/Exhaust than Ignite/Exhaust.
I understand that Ignite has situational use, in synergies (Poppy, Mordekaiser) and countering (Mundo, Tryndamere, lifesteal in general). However, >2 ignites per team seem really ridiculous - or am I overlooking something important here?
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you use ignite to counter healing spells, other than that its just a cheap ks skill.
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exhaust can't shut down flash in short lanes or over walls - for midlane in particular unless one side is very overextended exhaust usually won't secure a kill as reliably as ignite
its good for anti-heal
it finds its popularity in mid for aforementioned reasons
there tend to be a decent number of sustained toplanes or burst killers toplane, and ignite goes well against / with these kits
some more bursty ADs can also consider taking ignite, but heal provides more in terms of pure numbers (if an ignited person uses heal I believe it heals more than the ignite deals in damage at all levels) and is usable reliably so heal is a more popular option botlane
junglers who take exhaust instead of flash (due to lack of flash/ghost as a necessity in kit, additional jungling / counterjungling safety) often as mentioned have something in their kit to make up for the lack of an positioning summoner spell, and they are often in a position to use exhaust for the reasons you mentioned above - often in the front line and can apply exhaust to the enemy AD much more easily as well as being able to use it in ganks or in counterjungling - exhaust is stronger in 2v1s or 2v2 situations as the enemy is more likely to want to run away but is less likely to be able to in these situations
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Ignite adds burst damage, which is what most mid aps look for so you can 100-0. You don't want to give them time to escape or use flash, or if they flash out the ignite ticks can kill them off.
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On February 25 2012 04:54 bokeevboke wrote:
you use ignite to counter healing spells, other than that its just a cheap ks skill.
Not really true. It's very useful for AP carries because they generally want to maximize their burst. Additionally, when they go for a kill in lane or small skirmishes, AP carries generally don't have much damage once they use their spell rotation (with a few exceptions). Their auto attacks are usually not very strong and don't do much damage; ignite allows them to do that extra little bit of damage to secure a kill. You also sometimes want to run it on champs with high kill potential in lane like Pantheon to maximize your 1v1 killing potential. Late game and during teamfights it's more for countering heals and for that extra edge.
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Typically you always need at least 1 ignite on a team just to counter lifesteal or vamp. Even if you're not facing a swain/mundo/ww you need an ignite for the ad carry to cut their lifesteal.
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ignite > flash > exhaust > heal > ignite
that's how the quartet of popular summoners work in my mind
the suggestion in the OP that clarity is better than ignite is pretty :wtf:
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On February 25 2012 05:20 gtrsrs wrote:
ignite > flash > exhaust > heal > ignite
that's how the quartet of popular summoners work in my mind
the suggestion in the OP that clarity is better than ignite is pretty :wtf:
I hope he meant cleanse.
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On February 25 2012 04:45 stargrave wrote:
Personally, I play my nukers Flash/Teleport or Flash/Clarity. I've found even a chaser such as Katarina to benefit more from Ghost/Exhaust than Ignite/Exhaust.
The fact you even mentionned Clarity makes your opinion invalid.
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On February 25 2012 05:35 Fredle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 04:45 stargrave wrote:
Personally, I play my nukers Flash/Teleport or Flash/Clarity. I've found even a chaser such as Katarina to benefit more from Ghost/Exhaust than Ignite/Exhaust.
The fact you even mentionned Clarity makes your opinion invalid.
This sounds mean but it's true. There is no way clarity should ever be considered at any level.
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- The slow granted by Exhaust should allow you to get 1-2 nukes into a fleeing target, unless your cooldowns are truly ridiculous. If more than one person is attacking, this should always outdamage Ignite.
This kinda is the reason why you generally see ignite on AP midlaners. Almost all of them rely on skills to do the majority of their damage, and often these skills have long cooldowns. To compound this, the length of midlane is really short, so running to your tower for cover is really easy to do. This is the big reason why you see ignite on AP champs above exhaust almost all the time. They just can't really make use of exhaust. It doesn't really work too well defensively either, as generally if the opponent has come into range for you to exhaust, they probably have already blown all their cooldowns anyway.
You almost never see ignite on bot lane except on some champions like Tristana, for a lot of the reasons you already stated, and you don't see ignite on junglers either, as the junglers that can make do without flash usually take exhaust, for the reasons you stated.... (Lee Sin, Shyvana, Shaco, etc.). I just don't actually see ignite that much in my games at all and I'm a very low level player (1200). At most I'll see two on a team, but generally I usually only see one each team, almost always on their mid AP champ.
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Ignite is very strong, the heal debuff is very important, and in mid lane, where you compete only with burst it makes the diference between kills and near kills.
On top lane, the anti heal is very usefull because of all the sustain monsters that go around.
It's not used as much bot or jungle because the damage scales with level and bot/jungle are usually the least leveled character on the team
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When 2 bursty champs (read: most ap champs) meet, ignite plays a huge role in being able to 100-0 the enemy champ. Whoever doesn't bring ignite will lose a full exchange, so their opponent can play more aggressively.
There are certain mid champs that don't really benefit that much from ignite. Ryze and Karthus for example do enough sustained damage to not rely on a single combo killing their opponent, so I'd rather have exhaust or teleport on them unless facing swain or something like that. Cassio on the other hand does great sustained damage too, but you still want ignite to be able to kill someone during your ult stun.
While you can justify teleport in some scenarios (awesome to turn ganks around or to gank yourself, or just to split push more with TF), clarity is basically wasting a summoner.
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Ultimately, it's the much lower cooldown compared to exhaust/heal that makes Ignite the better choice for mid.
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On February 25 2012 07:19 Juicyfruit wrote:
Ultimately, it's the much lower cooldown compared to exhaust/heal that makes Ignite the better choice for mid.
highly debatable and probably not true stated that way - i would avoid absolute statements like this lul
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TBH sometimes I'll ignite my opponent at the first trade just to gain the 5ad/ap for easier lasthitting and stronger trades later. This is champion dependant though.
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On February 25 2012 07:40 Navi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 07:19 Juicyfruit wrote:
Ultimately, it's the much lower cooldown compared to exhaust/heal that makes Ignite the better choice for mid. highly debatable and probably not true stated that way - i would avoid absolute statements like this lul
I don't know, I think if heal or exhaust cooldown was the same as ignite, I'd find it very hard to argue picking up ignite. But you're right I'm only thinking about the 1v1 aspect :x
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On February 25 2012 07:53 Amui wrote:
TBH sometimes I'll ignite my opponent at the first trade just to gain the 5ad/ap for easier lasthitting and stronger trades later. This is champion dependant though.
Lol, I don't think this is ever worth it, and if it is, you picked the wrong summoners.
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Exhaust isn't that bad mid, but it depends on heroes. It's pretty good on heroes like cassio where you have sustained damage and just want to lay your e's into them as much as possible, but there aren't that many aps who don't have burst damage and rely on cds.
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In addition to what has already been mentioned, ignite is somewhat popular bot lane as well. Obviously, if you're running a kill lane it's great, but it is sometimes picked in standard ad / support lanes. This goes for high elo as well, often you will see top NA teams running ignite bottom (albeit not as commonly as other spells, but it's still run). I'd say (as many already have) that the main reason to run ignite is for the extra burst. It's a tradeoff, would ignite give more damage, or would exhaust slow them long enough to be in range for another round of spells / a significant number of auto attacks.
Often lanes like sivir taric will take ignite. In fact, any lane with an aggressive support (ali, leona, taric) it's not all that uncommon to see an ignite, either on the support or on the AD
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EPT
