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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 20 2012 03:45 Dgiese wrote:
Meh, this is just a discussion between those who prefer to buy lottery tickets, and people who prefer to get guaranteed returns from their money. If you wanna buy a lotto ticket, go for it, dream big, reach for the stars.
The point is it isnt a lotto ticket. It allows you to unlock a game mechanic that you otherwise need to spend gold on. Why was 4% not a lotto but 1% is?
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United States47024 Posts
On February 20 2012 03:48 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 03:45 Dgiese wrote:
Meh, this is just a discussion between those who prefer to buy lottery tickets, and people who prefer to get guaranteed returns from their money. If you wanna buy a lotto ticket, go for it, dream big, reach for the stars. The point is it isnt a lotto ticket. It allows you to unlock a game mechanic that you otherwise need to spend gold on. Why was 4% not a lotto but 1% is?
Ehh, you can't really compare the 4% mastery to the a crit chance rune. The expected value of the 4% mastery was better than the alternatives you could spend mastery points on, so even though it was a gamble, it was mathematically favorable. Your expected return was still higher than the cost.
In terms of the tradeoff from a purely mathematical standpoint, the tradeoff of 1 crit red or yellow is unfavorable--the pure value, whether measured in gold or in raw DPS increase, is less for 1 crit red than 1 ArPen red. That 1 crit won't do more damage than coming out 1-2 damage better on every damage trade throughout the entire laning phase does (which is what you're giving up with 1 ArPen red or 1 armor yellow). Only if you happen to crit at some critical point in time will it actually be meaningful.
That's the reason this scenario is comparable to a lotto ticket. You're gambling on something you know is statistically unfavorable, on the basis that you don't feel the cost is meaningful, even though the expected return is bad. The lottery analogy doesn't quite fit when you're gambling on something that has expected return higher than the cost (as crit chance masteries did).
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hotshot shitalking about Curse tournament? srsly? lmao
what about girl4lol?? the most shitty tournament ever
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Long time lurker here, but I'd like to point out that since you won't be able to crit at all without CrC reds, the +10% CrD offensive mastery won't come into play until 20+ minutes. If we're only looking at early game, then instead of comparing 0.93% CrC vs 1.66 apen (or whatever else), we should be comparing 0.93% CrC AND 10% CrD vs. 1.66 apen (or whatever else). In which case, the former is obviously worth more.
So from a mathematical standpoint it is effective compared to other runes. But personally, I won't use it because I prefer consistency.
EDIT: be consistency I mean for last hitting as well.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 20 2012 04:32 asdfjh wrote:
Long time lurker here, but I'd like to point out that since you won't be able to crit at all without CrC reds, the +10% CrD offensive mastery won't come into play until 20+ minutes. If we're only looking at early game, then instead of comparing 0.93% CrC vs 1.66 apen (or whatever else), we should be comparing 0.93% CrC AND 10% CrD vs. 1.66 apen (or whatever else). In which case, the former is obviously worth more.
So from a mathematical standpoint it is effective compared to other runes. But personally, I won't use it because I prefer consistency.
EDIT: be consistency I mean for last hitting as well.
Not really, because the value of % crit damage isn't fixed--it's value as a DPS increase scales based on how much crit you have. If you're getting 0.93% crit to "unlock" the ability to crit, the value of 10% crit damage is almost nothing.
Crit damage is good because it scales really efficiently with having a lot of crit. "Unlocking" 10% crit damage is meaningless because until you have meaningful amounts of crit anyway, it's not that significant.
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On February 20 2012 04:36 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:32 asdfjh wrote:
Long time lurker here, but I'd like to point out that since you won't be able to crit at all without CrC reds, the +10% CrD offensive mastery won't come into play until 20+ minutes. If we're only looking at early game, then instead of comparing 0.93% CrC vs 1.66 apen (or whatever else), we should be comparing 0.93% CrC AND 10% CrD vs. 1.66 apen (or whatever else). In which case, the former is obviously worth more.
So from a mathematical standpoint it is effective compared to other runes. But personally, I won't use it because I prefer consistency.
EDIT: be consistency I mean for last hitting as well. Not really, because the value of % crit damage isn't fixed--it's value as a DPS increase scales based on how much crit you have. If you're getting 0.93% crit to "unlock" the ability to crit, the value of 10% crit damage is almost nothing. Crit damage is good because it scales really efficiently with having a lot of crit. By itself it's not worth anything.
Sorry. You're right. Before, I was just looking at how 10% CrD was like having 4 red 2.23% CrD runes. I was like... oh wow 1 rune for the same stats as 5?
From a DPS standpoint 0.93% CrC and 10% CrD works out to be equal to 1.023% CrC. So not as much as I imagined.
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So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things.
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On February 20 2012 03:48 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 03:45 Dgiese wrote:
Meh, this is just a discussion between those who prefer to buy lottery tickets, and people who prefer to get guaranteed returns from their money. If you wanna buy a lotto ticket, go for it, dream big, reach for the stars. The point is it isnt a lotto ticket. It allows you to unlock a game mechanic that you otherwise need to spend gold on. Why was 4% not a lotto but 1% is?
4% was a lotto, Riot removed it because they don't like advantages based on randomness, same reason why they removed dodge (the second reason was because it was hard to counter). Buying a lotery ticket allows you to unlock a mechanic of earning the money without working
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It was removed because everyone was already going 21 offense and grabbing it for free; there was no sacrifice.
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On February 20 2012 04:52 hasuprotoss wrote:
So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things.
if they werent so midgame oriented
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On February 20 2012 04:52 hasuprotoss wrote:
So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things.
Make them combinable with other items.
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I was wondering, have they placed the Strength of Spirit Mastery in the wrong place? I used to always get it on Ryze before the mastery change but now I don't think it's ideal to get anymore because you would have to give up intelligence which isn't worth it for anyone it all. Any thoughts?
On February 20 2012 05:05 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:52 hasuprotoss wrote:
So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things. Make them combinable with other items.
Shit I must be retarded. I get Cloak and Dagger sometimes 
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On February 20 2012 04:52 hasuprotoss wrote:
So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things.
Give them 40% Tenacity. You HAVE to get boots, so mercs is a good throwaway slot for tenacity. You dont need to waste a slot on a tenacity item (unless you are Choshotgg)
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On February 20 2012 05:05 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:52 hasuprotoss wrote:
So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things. Make them combinable with other items.
Yep. The issue with a lot of items right now is they don't build into something of value. If you get e.g. moonflair + sorc boots you have two very cheap items taking up an item slot, which hurts you later on. Items like the tenacity ones, Haunting Guise, etc. could all instantly become top picks if they had a higher build path.
You 100% do not need to give them 40 tenacity (nor will such a thing ever be done, mark this post!)
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So after all, they didn't hotfix Shen. :<
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Ok, so I'm pretty experienced with my ww now, and I'm currently learning Skarner. I feel that both of them serve a very similar purpose, but ww's ult seems more reliable and versatile, he has more survivability, and he does more damage. When would I want to choose Skarner over Warwick for jungle?
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On February 20 2012 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
Ok, so I'm pretty experienced with my ww now, and I'm currently learning Skarner. I feel that both of them serve a very similar purpose, but ww's ult seems more reliable and versatile, he has more survivability, and he does more damage. When would I want to choose Skarner over Warwick for jungle?
I was never as huge a skarner fan as other people, but Skar brings a bit more tankiness and mobility than WW does, and his early game ganking is slightly better.
Personally I feel Skar was always overrated (I think tourney results prove this) because of how powerful he is in solo q against uncoordinated teams.
Overall Skar has a stronger early game presence but I would rather have WW at 15 minutes than Skarner, provided the situation was the same.
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On February 20 2012 05:14 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 05:05 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 20 2012 04:52 hasuprotoss wrote:
So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things. Make them combinable with other items. Yep. The issue with a lot of items right now is they don't build into something of value. If you get e.g. moonflair + sorc boots you have two very cheap items taking up an item slot, which hurts you later on. Items like the tenacity ones, Haunting Guise, etc. could all instantly become top picks if they had a higher build path. You 100% do not need to give them 40 tenacity (nor will such a thing ever be done, mark this post!)
There are 2 ways to do it- build paths or more tenacity. Either solves the problem. Just upping the tenacity value is a safer way (because you dont mess with overall item balance- just adjusting a single value on an item)
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On February 20 2012 05:23 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 05:14 Craton wrote:On February 20 2012 05:05 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 20 2012 04:52 hasuprotoss wrote:
So a little off-topic, but what do you think sould be done to Moonflare Spellblade and Cloak and Dagger to make them remotely usable? Right now nobody in their right mind buys the things. Make them combinable with other items. Yep. The issue with a lot of items right now is they don't build into something of value. If you get e.g. moonflair + sorc boots you have two very cheap items taking up an item slot, which hurts you later on. Items like the tenacity ones, Haunting Guise, etc. could all instantly become top picks if they had a higher build path. You 100% do not need to give them 40 tenacity (nor will such a thing ever be done, mark this post!) There are 2 ways to do it- build paths or more tenacity. Either solves the problem. Just upping the tenacity value is a safer way (because you dont mess with overall item balance- just adjusting a single value on an item)
Upping tenacity any significant amount makes champions like cooldown fiddlesticks useless.
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EPT
