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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 15 2012 03:20 Mogwai wrote:
yep, the next logical step for the game is corki/vayne/graves/teemo top lane. 2 ranged carries is better than one.
The only reasonable counter I've found is by saying fuck you AD and AP carry and just farm the fuck out of everything and be really tanky so they just have to run. Your AD and AP don't need damage against 4 squishies anyway, might as well get 1-2 super fat tanks that they can't stay and fight because it takes too long before your damage catches up.
Also, shen still has his auto attacks dealing physical. You have to do an unreasonable amount of defensive building to make his damage small and even then he reduces the rest of your damage between his W and his Q healing.
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Speaking of which why the hate on Karma?
She is a bad support (bad heal, bad shield, bad control) and she isn't very good as ap in soloQ because you need a strong teamplay to fully use her.
As nobody play her in soloQ nobody is good with her and nobody wanna lose theire time in practice to see if she could be good and here we are. I think she might be good with soaka or janna and an ad that won't get focus (like ez or maybe corky) so karma protect the bruisers while they have to be the focus of ennemy team.
he beats the bag out of Garen with wriggle's rush btw
So does anyone stacking armor.
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On February 15 2012 03:22 Nenyim wrote:She is a bad support (bad heal, bad shield, bad control) and she isn't very good as ap in soloQ because you need a strong teamplay to fully use her. As nobody play her in soloQ nobody is good with her and nobody wanna lose theire time in practice to see if she could be good and here we are. I think she might be good with soaka or janna and an ad that won't get focus (like ez or maybe corky) so karma protect the bruisers while they have to be the focus of ennemy team. So does anyone stacking armor.
You dont need a strong team in soloq, just shield the idiot that charges in, not only will you do tons of damage, he'll live much longer. If you wouldn't have had karma he'd die way sooner. Karma great in solo queue.
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On February 15 2012 03:21 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:18 Mogwai wrote:On February 15 2012 03:13 barbsq wrote:On February 15 2012 03:03 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 15 2012 02:41 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
Because hes a tank? Part of why I hate this term. It gets people to incorrectly assign a defensive role to a champ that is in no way restricted to playing a defensive role. On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
Shen gains damage, but thats not even what you want in a tank. Sure, you can play him tanky DPS, but he still has no way of sticking on a carry regardless. Taunt them and then what? Continue to run at them? Hell, Shen shouldn't even be able to taunt if the carry is positioning correctly. So how the hell does an 8 second CD dash that has moderate range and taunts every target along the way not compare favorably to like...every other gap closer in the game? On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
New Shen should be more aggressive, but I think he will still have the same problem against anyone that shoves a lane into him. Yes, he does have weaknesses. Weaknesses that he shares with a lot of the champ pool. Not an extraordinary strike against him. He doesn't need to be uncounterable to be an extremely strong pick. On February 15 2012 02:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 15 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
Does anyone else feel that Ionic Spark needs a tiny buff to the bounce range of the chain lightning effect? The range is just short enough that you can't hit the ranged creeps with the chain lightning when you attack the melee ones, which makes it awkward as a farming item (and its use as an AoE pushing/farming tool is the only real reason I'd buy it over Wit's). If they did, would this somewhat diminish the power of Voli's ult? I mean, I know the damage still wouldn't be there, but the arc range is one nice thing about Voli's ult. Honestly, if Volibear's ult range comparing favorably/unfavorably with Ionic Spark makes or breaks the champion, he's got bigger issues. I never said it was strictly a defensive role. As I said, tanks/bruisers need to STICK TO OR PROTECT a carry. Shen does not do either of those well enough compared to other tanks/bruisers. You would be surprised what happens in 8 seconds. A Vayne could kill everyone in the face if given appropriate protection in that time. Of course he doesn't need to be uncounterable. He still isn't a strong pick because of how bad he is at farming, and how he will probably still force a lane to be free farm. If thats the case, I would gladly take Nasus and Irelia for example over Shen. He can do whatever he pleases while they kill everything. didnt neo just curbstomp an irelia? and if shen crushes irelia, damn good chance he crushes nasus, or any1 who has even a remotely weak laning phase. Shen chucks 150 damage in your face every 3 seconds at level 5 and completely ignores your damage output. He hits you for more if you get close enough to eat ki strikes and more autos. I really don't get where you're getting this, "anyone can free farm vs. Shen" idea, but let me tell you it's pure bullshit. So... Lets build MR? Pretty sure I'm done. Just have to wait for this stupid as shit hype to blow over.
right, so that's just like how nasus and irelia are soooo good vs. Pantheon by stacking armor. oh wait... (not to menion shen autos like a beast and is outputting a solid mix of magic and physical damage in lane)
good to know for future reference that you won't back down from a bad viewpoint even when 3 good players who all actually put thought into the game and have actual experience with the character are telling you that you're actually just wrong.
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Shouldnt xz, ire, jarman, renek, and riven all dump on an ad carry top? Wukong too.
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On February 15 2012 03:25 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:21 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 15 2012 03:18 Mogwai wrote:On February 15 2012 03:13 barbsq wrote:On February 15 2012 03:03 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 15 2012 02:41 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
Because hes a tank? Part of why I hate this term. It gets people to incorrectly assign a defensive role to a champ that is in no way restricted to playing a defensive role. On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
Shen gains damage, but thats not even what you want in a tank. Sure, you can play him tanky DPS, but he still has no way of sticking on a carry regardless. Taunt them and then what? Continue to run at them? Hell, Shen shouldn't even be able to taunt if the carry is positioning correctly. So how the hell does an 8 second CD dash that has moderate range and taunts every target along the way not compare favorably to like...every other gap closer in the game? On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
New Shen should be more aggressive, but I think he will still have the same problem against anyone that shoves a lane into him. Yes, he does have weaknesses. Weaknesses that he shares with a lot of the champ pool. Not an extraordinary strike against him. He doesn't need to be uncounterable to be an extremely strong pick. On February 15 2012 02:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 15 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
Does anyone else feel that Ionic Spark needs a tiny buff to the bounce range of the chain lightning effect? The range is just short enough that you can't hit the ranged creeps with the chain lightning when you attack the melee ones, which makes it awkward as a farming item (and its use as an AoE pushing/farming tool is the only real reason I'd buy it over Wit's). If they did, would this somewhat diminish the power of Voli's ult? I mean, I know the damage still wouldn't be there, but the arc range is one nice thing about Voli's ult. Honestly, if Volibear's ult range comparing favorably/unfavorably with Ionic Spark makes or breaks the champion, he's got bigger issues. I never said it was strictly a defensive role. As I said, tanks/bruisers need to STICK TO OR PROTECT a carry. Shen does not do either of those well enough compared to other tanks/bruisers. You would be surprised what happens in 8 seconds. A Vayne could kill everyone in the face if given appropriate protection in that time. Of course he doesn't need to be uncounterable. He still isn't a strong pick because of how bad he is at farming, and how he will probably still force a lane to be free farm. If thats the case, I would gladly take Nasus and Irelia for example over Shen. He can do whatever he pleases while they kill everything. didnt neo just curbstomp an irelia? and if shen crushes irelia, damn good chance he crushes nasus, or any1 who has even a remotely weak laning phase. Shen chucks 150 damage in your face every 3 seconds at level 5 and completely ignores your damage output. He hits you for more if you get close enough to eat ki strikes and more autos. I really don't get where you're getting this, "anyone can free farm vs. Shen" idea, but let me tell you it's pure bullshit. So... Lets build MR? Pretty sure I'm done. Just have to wait for this stupid as shit hype to blow over. right, so that's just like how nasus and irelia are soooo good vs. Pantheon by stacking armor. oh wait... (not to menion shen autos like a beast and is outputting a solid mix of magic and physical damage in lane) good to know for future reference that you won't back down from a bad viewpoint even when 3 good players who all actually put thought into the game and have actual experience with the character are telling you that you're actually just wrong.
And I have friends that have played him before tell me that its still not going to make him broken as everyone is making him sound.
Point?
I'm not saying that he is as bad as before, because these are nice buffs for him. I'm simply saying this won't make him the king of top lane.
Oh, and to address your comparison to Nasus/Irel building armor vs Panth: Panth hurts early. You don't feed him and simply farm, you rape him later.
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On February 15 2012 03:26 Two_DoWn wrote:
Shouldnt xz, ire, jarman, renek, and riven all dump on an ad carry top? Wukong too.
yes, gapclosers create quite a problem for AD carries
teemo and corki can still do well (teemo with blind, corki because close range = armor shred) but i do feel like most AD carries have a problem with jumpy bruisers
also /face-to-the-palm at all the shen hype in this topic
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Well, I think people misunderstand how armour stacking works. Spending a bunch of gold to reduce 100 damage to 50 damage is only meaningful in trade situations. If you are just getting beat on you'll still lose all your hp pretty damn fast. For example a level 7 irelia versus a level 9 lee sin even if you have 120 armour you'll still get owned, but level 9 irelia versus level 9 lee sin is a totally different story between the extra HP, levels in E and W meanning you can afford to trade without worrying about dying and your E stun and W not only heals you a lot but trucks him, so you win the trade and he has to back off meaning you heal off creeps more and your advantage snowballs. In the other situation you're too worried at being combo'd with QRQ and ignite that you can't really fight him.
In the same way pantheon can be pretty brutal early on because his passive is so damn good that armour stacking champs can't really trade so they need to survive till later levels when they get tankier before they can lane well.
Depending on the skill of both players and jungler pantheon can either snowball early and nasus and irelia will still be fucked or just as easily the opposite can happen.
On February 15 2012 03:30 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:26 Two_DoWn wrote:
Shouldnt xz, ire, jarman, renek, and riven all dump on an ad carry top? Wukong too. yes, gapclosers create quite a problem for AD carries teemo and corki can still do well (teemo with blind, corki because close range = armor shred) but i do feel like most AD carries have a problem with jumpy bruisers also /face-to-the-palm at all the shen hype in this topic
Man I really want to play shen again now as soon as EU patches. Maybe it's slightly over hyped because people couldn't believe how strong GP was when they massively buffed him but when people learned to play versus him it toned down, probably will be the same with shen, but I imagine he'll become a great pick again.
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Cloud, you alredy said your "expert friends" were 1500. No one you are arguing with is below 1700. Severall are 2k
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On February 15 2012 03:27 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:25 Mogwai wrote:On February 15 2012 03:21 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 15 2012 03:18 Mogwai wrote:On February 15 2012 03:13 barbsq wrote:On February 15 2012 03:03 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 15 2012 02:41 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
Because hes a tank? Part of why I hate this term. It gets people to incorrectly assign a defensive role to a champ that is in no way restricted to playing a defensive role. On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
Shen gains damage, but thats not even what you want in a tank. Sure, you can play him tanky DPS, but he still has no way of sticking on a carry regardless. Taunt them and then what? Continue to run at them? Hell, Shen shouldn't even be able to taunt if the carry is positioning correctly. So how the hell does an 8 second CD dash that has moderate range and taunts every target along the way not compare favorably to like...every other gap closer in the game? On February 15 2012 02:13 Cloud9157 wrote:
New Shen should be more aggressive, but I think he will still have the same problem against anyone that shoves a lane into him. Yes, he does have weaknesses. Weaknesses that he shares with a lot of the champ pool. Not an extraordinary strike against him. He doesn't need to be uncounterable to be an extremely strong pick. On February 15 2012 02:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 15 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:
Does anyone else feel that Ionic Spark needs a tiny buff to the bounce range of the chain lightning effect? The range is just short enough that you can't hit the ranged creeps with the chain lightning when you attack the melee ones, which makes it awkward as a farming item (and its use as an AoE pushing/farming tool is the only real reason I'd buy it over Wit's). If they did, would this somewhat diminish the power of Voli's ult? I mean, I know the damage still wouldn't be there, but the arc range is one nice thing about Voli's ult. Honestly, if Volibear's ult range comparing favorably/unfavorably with Ionic Spark makes or breaks the champion, he's got bigger issues. I never said it was strictly a defensive role. As I said, tanks/bruisers need to STICK TO OR PROTECT a carry. Shen does not do either of those well enough compared to other tanks/bruisers. You would be surprised what happens in 8 seconds. A Vayne could kill everyone in the face if given appropriate protection in that time. Of course he doesn't need to be uncounterable. He still isn't a strong pick because of how bad he is at farming, and how he will probably still force a lane to be free farm. If thats the case, I would gladly take Nasus and Irelia for example over Shen. He can do whatever he pleases while they kill everything. didnt neo just curbstomp an irelia? and if shen crushes irelia, damn good chance he crushes nasus, or any1 who has even a remotely weak laning phase. Shen chucks 150 damage in your face every 3 seconds at level 5 and completely ignores your damage output. He hits you for more if you get close enough to eat ki strikes and more autos. I really don't get where you're getting this, "anyone can free farm vs. Shen" idea, but let me tell you it's pure bullshit. So... Lets build MR? Pretty sure I'm done. Just have to wait for this stupid as shit hype to blow over. right, so that's just like how nasus and irelia are soooo good vs. Pantheon by stacking armor. oh wait... (not to menion shen autos like a beast and is outputting a solid mix of magic and physical damage in lane) good to know for future reference that you won't back down from a bad viewpoint even when 3 good players who all actually put thought into the game and have actual experience with the character are telling you that you're actually just wrong. And I have friends that have played him before tell me that its still not going to make him broken as everyone is making him sound. Point? I'm not saying that he is as bad as before, because these are nice buffs for him. I'm simply saying this won't make him the king of top lane. Oh, and to address your comparison to Nasus/Irel building armor vs Panth: Panth hurts early. You don't feed him and simply farm, you rape him later.
stacking armor against pantheon works because if you have enough sustain you can eventually run pantheon out of mana before you run out of life.
shen doesn't ever run out of mana so he can chuck shit at you all day and you will eventually run out of life. when you're up against a heavy harasser it's not so simple as "just stack resistances."
Sure your friends played a lot of shen but unless they're 2k elo like smash and all the rest telling you're wrong I highly doubt they were playing him optimally.
On February 15 2012 03:26 Two_DoWn wrote:
Shouldnt xz, ire, jarman, renek, and riven all dump on an ad carry top? Wukong too.
I have no experience with xz, irelia, and renek. Jarman does fine, even outtrades AD top lane. Riven does well against stuff not named Teemo. Teemo is a slippery fuck and played well can absolutely beat or tie a lane with Riven since Riven can't really catch him due to move quick and blind. Wukong should do well against ranged once he gains a few levels I think.
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On February 15 2012 03:32 Two_DoWn wrote:
Cloud, you alredy said your "expert friends" were 1500. No one you are arguing with is below 1700. Severall are 2k
Was an approximate, since I have a 1300 1400 and 2 1600+. We're able to compete with 1800-1900. Not quite 2k, but it'll have to do.
I'll just wait for Shen to not be broken as everyone thinks he will be.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
DONT WORRY GUYS
HIS FRIENDS SAID SHEN ISNT STRONG
ROFLING SO HARD
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
LOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOololl please ban me from this awful forum
User was banned for this post.
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Irelia not so much. She actually will get out bursted by graves and vayne for the early levels when you need to develop a strong enough lead to get your farm and we already know teemo counters her. Not sure about Croc, but his first 3 levels are really weak against range in my experience, so I imagine he'll have a hell of a time too.
Wu kong will probably beast them and he's in style, but Xin and Jarman are both out of style right now and it takes the community awhile to figure out what the new trends mean in terms of how to CP. Riven, I dunno, all those guys are slippery as hell and do a fuckton of damage, I'm not convinced her gap closing will be enough to not fall behind at early levels. You also left out mantheon, who does crush them all. But it really boils down to the fact that the team with last pick should be able to run a ranged carry top because there's no way to pick someone who counters range without getting dumped on by certain other matchups other than... wait for it... Xin and Shen (and no I'm not kidding). At least that's how I see it going down.
Oh yea, or we could all just play Yorick, but fuck that shit.
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On February 15 2012 03:37 Brees wrote:
LOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOololl please ban me from this awful forum
DONT DO IT! Its what he wants!
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Laning vs shen is comparable to laning against panth in my shitty top experience. Vorpals dont do as much dmg as spears but they never end and he has his own sustain.
I suck @ top lane though lol
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On February 15 2012 03:37 Brees wrote:
LOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOolollLOLOLOOLOOololl please ban me from this awful forum
lub inept
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is this the new posting quality in this subforum?
Nautilus seems pretty fun, but i don't see why they release two similar champs in such a short time (Naut and the pig-riding lady...sejuani or whatever).
And shen looks really strong now. go full tank, still do alot of damage. and his counterganks with his ult are really nice.
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Vorpal's way lower range than Spear though and you can't spam them on cooldown because of the energy cost.
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On February 15 2012 03:41 WirelessWaffle wrote:
Laning vs shen is comparable to laning against panth in my shitty top experience. Vorpals dont do as much dmg as spears but they never end and he has his own sustain.
I suck @ top lane though lol
your description ruins the real spirit of Pantheon which is dunking on people.
shen's his own creature top. he bursts fairly well, sustains very well, and harasses fairly well. he's just generally very strong top lane from basically every angle.
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EPT
