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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2012 06:42 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 06:29 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 24 2012 06:22 Slayer91 wrote:
Renek, Olaf, Nasus don't really burst people and Jax/Irelia meh. Poppy is more of an assassin than a bruiser.
Like, renek is known as a weak lategame bruiser, and definitely doesn't burst that hard, unless you can somehow full combo someone without having to use your skills to help gap close.
I mean you can't draw a hard line anywhere but in general lategame means carries damage outscales your tank items which means fights tend to be shorter instead of the longer more drawn out stuff that these sustain bruisers thrive in. Obviously if AD carrys get taken out quickly it changes but generally those fuckers are hard to deal with lategame. Meh I dissagree pretty hard with your assessment that "nonburst" melee dont have good late games. I dont think that catagorization works. I guess I also have some very different opinions about who good late game bruisers are as well. I agree. A lategame WW or GP on my team is something I welcome anytime. Being burst, vs nonburst isn't what makes a lategame bruiser useful. Its nice to have the ability to jump in and smash a carry, but there are other things that these champs can do to be useful.
Warwick is a good example of why this distinction between "good lategame" and "good with farm" matters. Warwick is a very strong lategame champion--his damage and survivability scales off enemy defensive stats (because Q deals and heals %-based damage), he provides a teamwide attack speed buff, and has a strong suppression skill. But his itemized scaling isn't that special. So while he's a strong hero to have lategame, the difference between 4-item Warwick and 6-item Warwick isn't as big as between, say, 4-item Riven and 6-item Riven.
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Burst bruisers are the ones that take ignite while the sustained dps guys are running like teleport or exhaust.
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Anyone watching saint's stream ATM?
I just got my new favourite quote of a pro player:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4TuU1.jpg)
Fun part is seeing 2 of his teammates saying that saint is a bad jungler hue
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On February 24 2012 06:38 TheYango wrote:
"Good lategame" means the same thing on melees as it does on ranged--good steroids (whether offensive or defensive), good scaling with itemized stats.
Their steroids and scaling just have to be that much more insane to make up for the fact that they're melee. I don't think I have to tell anyone how a lot of melee carry steroids would be absolutely obscene if they were on ranged champions.
EDIT: I guess it's worth distinguishing between "good lategame" and "good with farm". There are a lot of heroes that are strong lategame, but not because they wreck people with 6 items worth of farm.
Well I think good lategame is simply how effective they teamfight lategame, generally someone like warwick has some problems with a QSS IE PD LW AD Carry on the other team. I mean obviously it doesn't make him bad since their bruisers assumedly has the same problem. But anyone who can instantly burst an AD carry who makes a mistake and is pretty tanky to boot is going to be able to carry a lategame teamfight against any AD who makes any kind of mistake.
It's not like I play udyr a lot but don't do much lategame, I mean I don't usually do poorly lategame but I definitely have to tread carefully and rely on my team a lot whereas midgame you can just rampage around killing everyone. Similar story with WW.
I mean I wouldn't give a damn about 6 item riven if their team has a 6 item vayne and an alistar what can she do?
I purely look at lategame from a functional perspective as opposed to notions of steriods and scaling which apply well to ranged champions but less so to melee.
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On February 24 2012 06:53 Kaniol wrote:Anyone watching saint's stream ATM? I just got my new favourite quote of a pro player: Fun part is seeing 2 of his teammates saying that saint is a bad jungler hue
Saint jungling Naut? Damn my work not allowing streams, I'd really like to see him in the hands of a good jungler and not shitty players like me.
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use your shurelia's oddone!!
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This is a pretty interesting amount of data about the top NA AD carries gathered by a fine gentleman and scholar.
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On February 24 2012 02:35 Requizen wrote:
Alright, I've decided. I'm going to spend the next couple days playing nothing but AP carries to get better, unless it's really unfeasible to the team.
My roster of such includes Brand, Viktor, TF (AP build), Fiddle, Lux, Orianna, Kennen, and Ryze (though I don't know if he's feasible without having a mana page for him, which I don't).
Who should I focus on (for whatever reason you see fit), and are their pages on here up to date?
Play Orianna. The best late game ap carry.
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On February 24 2012 07:11 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 06:53 Kaniol wrote:Anyone watching saint's stream ATM? I just got my new favourite quote of a pro player: Fun part is seeing 2 of his teammates saying that saint is a bad jungler hue Saint jungling Naut? Damn my work not allowing streams, I'd really like to see him in the hands of a good jungler and not shitty players like me.
Saint is terrible at nautilus. I think it is made exponentially worse by the fact he is on tilt hard and doesn't like playing naut.
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On February 24 2012 07:16 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 02:35 Requizen wrote:
Alright, I've decided. I'm going to spend the next couple days playing nothing but AP carries to get better, unless it's really unfeasible to the team.
My roster of such includes Brand, Viktor, TF (AP build), Fiddle, Lux, Orianna, Kennen, and Ryze (though I don't know if he's feasible without having a mana page for him, which I don't).
Who should I focus on (for whatever reason you see fit), and are their pages on here up to date? Play Orianna. The best late game ap carry.
Very arguable. If you have a someone like Riven who deals INSANE amounts of late game damage and a few disables to follow up after your ult, sure. Damage wise, Orianna's just not up there late game. She offers great utility and if that's what you are looking for, she's great.
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On February 24 2012 07:18 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 07:16 Erasme wrote:On February 24 2012 02:35 Requizen wrote:
Alright, I've decided. I'm going to spend the next couple days playing nothing but AP carries to get better, unless it's really unfeasible to the team.
My roster of such includes Brand, Viktor, TF (AP build), Fiddle, Lux, Orianna, Kennen, and Ryze (though I don't know if he's feasible without having a mana page for him, which I don't).
Who should I focus on (for whatever reason you see fit), and are their pages on here up to date? Play Orianna. The best late game ap carry. Very arguable. If you have a someone like Riven who deals INSANE amounts of late game damage and a few disables to follow up after your ult, sure. Damage wise, Orianna's just not up there late game. She offers great utility and if that's what you are looking for, she's great.
CC scales.
A stun late game is much stronger than a stun early game due to the nature of team fights/objectives/respawn timer/damage vs tankiness wise.
It is how champions like Leona/Ashe scale even though it seems that they should be really weak late game.
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On February 24 2012 07:11 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 06:53 Kaniol wrote:Anyone watching saint's stream ATM? I just got my new favourite quote of a pro player: Fun part is seeing 2 of his teammates saying that saint is a bad jungler hue Saint jungling Naut? Damn my work not allowing streams, I'd really like to see him in the hands of a good jungler and not shitty players like me.
Think I've seen saint jungle naut in like 5 games and his combined score has been like 4-25 or so, might not be the stream to watch for nautilus gameplay
I think TeddyRO and chu8 are ones that somehow make nautilus work and I have no clue how
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On February 24 2012 07:21 warscythes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 07:18 Shiv. wrote:On February 24 2012 07:16 Erasme wrote:On February 24 2012 02:35 Requizen wrote:
Alright, I've decided. I'm going to spend the next couple days playing nothing but AP carries to get better, unless it's really unfeasible to the team.
My roster of such includes Brand, Viktor, TF (AP build), Fiddle, Lux, Orianna, Kennen, and Ryze (though I don't know if he's feasible without having a mana page for him, which I don't).
Who should I focus on (for whatever reason you see fit), and are their pages on here up to date? Play Orianna. The best late game ap carry. Very arguable. If you have a someone like Riven who deals INSANE amounts of late game damage and a few disables to follow up after your ult, sure. Damage wise, Orianna's just not up there late game. She offers great utility and if that's what you are looking for, she's great. CC scales. A stun late game is much stronger than a stun early game due to the nature of team fights/objectives/respawn timer/damage vs tankiness wise. It is how champions like Leona/Ashe scale even though it seems that they should be really weak late game.
In that regard, I wouldn't really call anything Ori has "CC" aside from her ult, and it's highly unlikely that you're getting more than ~3 people in it per fight given the size and cooldown.
On February 24 2012 07:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 07:11 Requizen wrote:On February 24 2012 06:53 Kaniol wrote:Anyone watching saint's stream ATM? I just got my new favourite quote of a pro player: Fun part is seeing 2 of his teammates saying that saint is a bad jungler hue Saint jungling Naut? Damn my work not allowing streams, I'd really like to see him in the hands of a good jungler and not shitty players like me. Think I've seen saint jungle naut in like 5 games and his combined score has been like 4-25 or so, might not be the stream to watch for nautilus gameplay I think TeddyRO and chu8 are ones that somehow make nautilus work and I have no clue how
That gives me a sad. I like Saint, and I like Naut.
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On February 24 2012 06:36 Shikyo wrote:
Speaking of lategame bruisers, what about building last whisper on yorick and huehuehueing when your golems deal like 300 deeps while you arent even nearby?
Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought armor pen doesn't apply to ghouls. Which is why typical yorick rune pages just use ad reds instead for the early-game harrass; and also why yorick's harrass falls off a lot late-game.
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Everytime I try to do Wolves-Blue, my team either camps blue and doesn't help me with wolves, or they run off to lane immediately afterwards. At least low levels tend to comply if you explain concisely.
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On February 24 2012 07:25 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 06:36 Shikyo wrote:
Speaking of lategame bruisers, what about building last whisper on yorick and huehuehueing when your golems deal like 300 deeps while you arent even nearby? Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought armor pen doesn't apply to ghouls. Which is why typical yorick rune pages just use ad reds instead for the early-game harrass; and also why yorick's harrass falls off a lot late-game.
Ya sure are wrong, it definitely affects ghouls! They benefit from 1/3 your ad and all of your apen
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fwiw, I think WW lategame on 6 items is fucking crazy OP. his item scaling is pretty strong, dunno where you're coming from saying that his item scaling is weak.
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On February 24 2012 07:28 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 07:25 bmn wrote:On February 24 2012 06:36 Shikyo wrote:
Speaking of lategame bruisers, what about building last whisper on yorick and huehuehueing when your golems deal like 300 deeps while you arent even nearby? Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought armor pen doesn't apply to ghouls. Which is why typical yorick rune pages just use ad reds instead for the early-game harrass; and also why yorick's harrass falls off a lot late-game. Ya sure are wrong, it definitely affects ghouls! They benefit from 1/3 your ad and all of your apen
Wow, you're right, no idea where I got this silly notion from. Time to try last whisper. :-)
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On February 24 2012 07:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 07:11 Requizen wrote:On February 24 2012 06:53 Kaniol wrote:Anyone watching saint's stream ATM? I just got my new favourite quote of a pro player: Fun part is seeing 2 of his teammates saying that saint is a bad jungler hue Saint jungling Naut? Damn my work not allowing streams, I'd really like to see him in the hands of a good jungler and not shitty players like me. Think I've seen saint jungle naut in like 5 games and his combined score has been like 4-25 or so, might not be the stream to watch for nautilus gameplay I think TeddyRO and chu8 are ones that somehow make nautilus work and I have no clue how
Yeah, Saint's not been doing so well in these last couple of games as Naut. Also, I've only ever seen Chu play Naut in lane, though it's pretty fun to watch, still.
Does animation cancelling Naut's attacks help with his clear speed at all? I actually have no clue how animation cancelling affects attacks and attack speed in LoL, or if it's only good for kiting, but Naut's attacks look like they have a huge wind-down time.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2012 07:25 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 06:36 Shikyo wrote:
Speaking of lategame bruisers, what about building last whisper on yorick and huehuehueing when your golems deal like 300 deeps while you arent even nearby? Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought armor pen doesn't apply to ghouls. Which is why typical yorick rune pages just use ad reds instead for the early-game harrass; and also why yorick's harrass falls off a lot late-game.
They do benefit from your armor pen. The reason Yorick runepages still use AD reds is because E, which makes up a large portion of your early game harassment, does AD-scaling magic damage.
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EPT
