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.[Patch 1.0.0.134: Nautilus] General Discussion - Page 129
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
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bmn
886 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:27 Mogwai wrote: Lane camping is what's wrong with Lee Sin. Fucker just ruins the laning phase because his ganks are stupidly long range and stupidly effective from any angle (note this is just for top really, his mid ganks aren't that great). Really I just hate him because I'm a top laner and I can't remember the last time I had a fun time top lane with an opposing lee sin, regardless of my character choice. Nidalee is just bullshit, if she ever gets ahead, you have to send an extra person top to deal with her and even if you do, it's impossible to kill her. She's basically as good as Teemo at solo pushing and as good as Shaco at escaping ganks and I think that combination is incredibly toxic, especially on a character who deals unreasonable amounts of damage on like, wriggle's + frozen heart. Wow, I had no idea Nidalee was considered that strong when I got her. I got her mainly because the skill set looked interesting and I never saw her being played. I'm still at fairly low ELO, and the comments I get (if any) are teammates going "nidalee no ap? gg" in allchat when the game starts. Is she still a good pick for decent late-game damage/utility, e.g. comparable to other top bruisers? (I don't expect her to scale quite as well as Nasus/Irelia, and she seems a lot weaker in team fights once they have Rylai's etc.) As someone who always plays top when he can, I guess I just did end up enjoying asshole champs (mainly Rumble, but also Nidalee, Morde, Yorick). | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:34 bmn wrote: Wow, I had no idea Nidalee was considered that strong when I got her. I got her mainly because the skill set looked interesting and I never saw her being played. I'm still at fairly low ELO, and the comments I get (if any) are teammates going "nidalee no ap? gg" in allchat when the game starts. Is she still a good pick for decent late-game damage/utility, e.g. comparable to other top bruisers? (I don't expect her to scale quite as well as Nasus/Irelia, and she seems a lot weaker in team fights once they have Rylai's etc.) As someone who always plays top when he can, I guess I just did end up enjoying asshole champs (mainly Rumble, but also Nidalee, Morde, Yorick). Nid's... kinda weak late game? I dunno, she theoretically shouldn't be strong late game, but assuming your team can do anything 4v4, Nid just pushes elsewhere and gets free towers, steals buffs from the opposing team and just generally gives you crazy map presence regardless of how the rest of the game went. EDIT: besides, I'm not talking about power level in that bottom tier, it's mostly characters who's core gameplay I find incredibly toxic and/or horribly unfun. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Bruiser nidalee is annoying but it's possible to deal with. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:41 Mogwai wrote: Nid's... kinda weak late game? I dunno, she theoretically shouldn't be strong late game, but assuming your team can do anything 4v4, Nid just pushes elsewhere and gets free towers, steals buffs from the opposing team and just generally gives you crazy map presence regardless of how the rest of the game went. As long as Nid's building tanky, she's almost as good as any bruiser lategame (and if you need to you can always build AP for siege/kite comps). Those Cougar skills just have absurd base damages for the cooldowns. Her Bushwhack is not really noticeable, but it's one of the best tank killers (almost trundle ult). I'd definitely say she stays strong all game long. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:50 Slayer91 wrote: Well, non burst damage bruisers are relatively weak lategame though.. GP wants a word. So does Shyv. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I wouldn't consider GP that good lategame, unless he's building to the point where his Q crits are basically like an AP carries nuke spells. Someone like jarvan or wukong is a burst damage bruiser in my opinion. Someone like WW/udyr/Lee sin (can burst hard but has trouble getting positioning to do it) who don't do a whole lot to tank lines but can't quite gap close so easily takes more of a backseat when ranged AD have like 3-4 damage items. I guess it comes down to bursting their AD before they can really get away if you both have flash up, because if you can't burst em their support CCing makes it impossible to 1v1 them and you can't exactly "tank" them either. I mean, you can say shyvana farms hard but that's just saying if you get fed you're in lategame shyvana against midgame farmed ADs so no shit you're strong, works with all the others like nidalee udyr and warwick who can like 1v5 in that kind of situation. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
Wukong, Jax, Irelia, Garen, Jarman, Nasus, Olaf, Poppy, Renek, Riven, Xin Nonburst: GP, Shy, Udyr, WW, Mundo, | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Like, renek is known as a weak lategame bruiser, and definitely doesn't burst that hard, unless you can somehow full combo someone without having to use your skills to help gap close. I mean you can't draw a hard line anywhere but in general lategame means carries damage outscales your tank items which means fights tend to be shorter instead of the longer more drawn out stuff that these sustain bruisers thrive in. Obviously if AD carrys get taken out quickly it changes but generally those fuckers are hard to deal with lategame. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 24 2012 06:22 Slayer91 wrote: Renek, Olaf, Nasus don't really burst people and Jax/Irelia meh. Poppy is more of an assassin than a bruiser. Like, renek is known as a weak lategame bruiser, and definitely doesn't burst that hard, unless you can somehow full combo someone without having to use your skills to help gap close. I mean you can't draw a hard line anywhere but in general lategame means carries damage outscales your tank items which means fights tend to be shorter instead of the longer more drawn out stuff that these sustain bruisers thrive in. Obviously if AD carrys get taken out quickly it changes but generally those fuckers are hard to deal with lategame. Meh I dissagree pretty hard with your assessment that "nonburst" melee dont have good late games. I dont think that catagorization works. I guess I also have some very different opinions about who good late game bruisers are as well. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Their steroids and scaling just have to be that much more insane to make up for the fact that they're melee. I don't think I have to tell anyone how a lot of melee carry steroids would be absolutely obscene if they were on ranged champions. EDIT: I guess it's worth distinguishing between "good lategame" and "good with farm". There are a lot of heroes that are strong lategame, but not because they wreck people with 6 items worth of farm. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On February 24 2012 06:29 Two_DoWn wrote: Meh I dissagree pretty hard with your assessment that "nonburst" melee dont have good late games. I dont think that catagorization works. I guess I also have some very different opinions about who good late game bruisers are as well. I agree. A lategame WW or GP on my team is something I welcome anytime. Being burst, vs nonburst isn't what makes a lategame bruiser useful. Its nice to have the ability to jump in and smash a carry, but there are other things that these champs can do to be useful. | ||
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