|
Heed these two simple warnings. It will help make our GD a better place. Consider this fair notice to all users. Warning will be dished out this patch. Thanks. Neo, 31.01.12 |
On February 11 2012 13:11 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:04 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 11 2012 13:00 r.Evo wrote:On February 11 2012 12:53 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 11 2012 12:49 r.Evo wrote:On February 11 2012 02:12 Two_DoWn wrote:
Trundle isnt very good simply because the ONLY thing that he brings to a team is his pillar. Thats it. And even then other characters have better peel/disengage abilities than pillar (for example, alistar is MUCH better in a poke comp than trundle can ever hope to be).
The other problem he has is that his ultimate is terrible. It really doesnt DO anything for him. Optimally you need to run through the enemy team to the tank, then run through the team to the carry. All the while getting beat to shit. And his ult just isnt even that good. You barely leech life, and in terms of abilities that give stat bonuses id MUCH rather have shy's ult than trundles. I know I'm late but I can't stop myself from pointing out that TD must be talking about a different game here. In his game, the tanks form the backline and the carries are sitting in front. For some reason the tanks seem to have insane resists and therefor have to be protected by the carries. Which game is that TD? =P If fights took place in an ideal manner, sure. Unfortunatly, most of the time fights tend to be spread in a few different directions, with your damage to one side with the tanks chasing them, their damage somewhere else, and a bunch of champs in between. I mean, look at any teamfight and tell me that you can go straight from their tank to a carry without getting beat the shit out off in between. The "normal" pattern of a teamfight though is that you kinda have to cross their tankline to reach their carries. Ult their tanky champ, continue waddling towards their carries. - Their tanky dps has less tank and can be shut down easier while you can still make their dps hit you. Tadaa, goal achieved! You are considering a 2 dimensional fight only. What about a dragon fight where: @@@ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------####### ----------------------------------------------------% The enemy carries are the @ up in the brush by mid, you are in drag pit, your team splits south. just... use paint
When you see the jungle guide you will understand the scope of my MS paint skills.
|
New champ looks badass and his kit seems fun! Will be cool to try him out.
|
I enjoy the Riot memorial "We can't admit we completely screwed up in buffing an ability, so we're gonna nerf other things that were fine" balance style in place with the Vlad nerfs.
Sure, Q cooldown being reduced so Vlad can lane and allowing him to hold 4 stacks of E indefinitely were terrible ideas, so let's nerf E's regen buff and Hemoplague.
SENSE.
|
On February 11 2012 13:32 Seiuchi wrote:
I enjoy the Riot memorial "We can't admit we completely screwed up in buffing an ability, so we're gonna nerf other things that were fine" balance style in place with the Vlad nerfs.
Sure, Q cooldown being reduced so Vlad can lane and allowing him to hold 4 stacks of E indefinitely were terrible ideas, so let's nerf E's regen buff and Hemoplague.
SENSE.
I think what they want is that you get to push more buttons. Like really before buff early game Vlad has to wait a pretty long time get to do anything. Reducing the numbers pretty much means that Vlad gets to do the same thing but a bit weaker.
Aka play style remains the same, just reduced strength.
|
On February 11 2012 13:39 warscythes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:32 Seiuchi wrote:
I enjoy the Riot memorial "We can't admit we completely screwed up in buffing an ability, so we're gonna nerf other things that were fine" balance style in place with the Vlad nerfs.
Sure, Q cooldown being reduced so Vlad can lane and allowing him to hold 4 stacks of E indefinitely were terrible ideas, so let's nerf E's regen buff and Hemoplague.
SENSE. I think what they want is that you get to push more buttons. Like really before buff early game Vlad has to wait a pretty long time get to do anything. Reducing the numbers pretty much means that Vlad gets to do the same thing but a bit weaker. Aka play style remains the same, just reduced strength.
Vlad's still getting buffed early game as even if E causes less of a health buff you're still getting more Qs off and you can more reliably keep E at more stacks.
Vlad's an unhealthy design and should get Eve'd, but him pressing more buttons is a bad thing. The only semblance of balance Vlad's design has is his power curve, letting him press buttons in lane flattens the bad part of that just because more Qs is more damage and more heal.
|
Imagine how easy it'd be to balance him if they just made him use mana.
|
It can be specially bloody 'red mana' to keep the flavor though.
Tada. All objections disposed of.
|
On February 11 2012 13:43 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:39 warscythes wrote:On February 11 2012 13:32 Seiuchi wrote:
I enjoy the Riot memorial "We can't admit we completely screwed up in buffing an ability, so we're gonna nerf other things that were fine" balance style in place with the Vlad nerfs.
Sure, Q cooldown being reduced so Vlad can lane and allowing him to hold 4 stacks of E indefinitely were terrible ideas, so let's nerf E's regen buff and Hemoplague.
SENSE. I think what they want is that you get to push more buttons. Like really before buff early game Vlad has to wait a pretty long time get to do anything. Reducing the numbers pretty much means that Vlad gets to do the same thing but a bit weaker. Aka play style remains the same, just reduced strength. Vlad's still getting buffed early game as even if E causes less of a health buff you're still getting more Qs off and you can more reliably keep E at more stacks. Vlad's an unhealthy design and should get Eve'd, but him pressing more buttons is a bad thing. The only semblance of balance Vlad's design has is his power curve, letting him press buttons in lane flattens the bad part of that just because more Qs is more damage and more heal.
I actually think he's pretty okay where he is right now. He has champions that can fuck him up in lane by crushing him early on when he's weakest and he has match ups where his opponent can't hurt him enough early to make him not completely bully them once he hits level 8-9.
Yeah, his kit makes balancing him tough but I don't think he's too out of line right now and I don't think his kit is so messed up that he deserves to be nerfed more after this next patch.
|
On February 11 2012 13:04 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:00 r.Evo wrote:On February 11 2012 12:53 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 11 2012 12:49 r.Evo wrote:On February 11 2012 02:12 Two_DoWn wrote:
Trundle isnt very good simply because the ONLY thing that he brings to a team is his pillar. Thats it. And even then other characters have better peel/disengage abilities than pillar (for example, alistar is MUCH better in a poke comp than trundle can ever hope to be).
The other problem he has is that his ultimate is terrible. It really doesnt DO anything for him. Optimally you need to run through the enemy team to the tank, then run through the team to the carry. All the while getting beat to shit. And his ult just isnt even that good. You barely leech life, and in terms of abilities that give stat bonuses id MUCH rather have shy's ult than trundles. I know I'm late but I can't stop myself from pointing out that TD must be talking about a different game here. In his game, the tanks form the backline and the carries are sitting in front. For some reason the tanks seem to have insane resists and therefor have to be protected by the carries. Which game is that TD? =P If fights took place in an ideal manner, sure. Unfortunatly, most of the time fights tend to be spread in a few different directions, with your damage to one side with the tanks chasing them, their damage somewhere else, and a bunch of champs in between. I mean, look at any teamfight and tell me that you can go straight from their tank to a carry without getting beat the shit out off in between. The "normal" pattern of a teamfight though is that you kinda have to cross their tankline to reach their carries. Ult their tanky champ, continue waddling towards their carries. - Their tanky dps has less tank and can be shut down easier while you can still make their dps hit you. Tadaa, goal achieved! You are considering a 2 dimensional fight only. What about a dragon fight where: @@@ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------####### ----------------------------------------------------% The enemy carries are the @ up in the brush by mid, you are in drag pit, your team splits south.
Look right, ult tanky dps. Look left, charge carry. =P
@USnip: You should play Dwarf Fortress. Once you've done that TD's "painting" looks like fucking art.
|
On February 11 2012 13:57 overt wrote:
I actually think he's pretty okay where he is right now. He has champions that can fuck him up in lane by crushing him early on when he's weakest and he has match ups where his opponent can't hurt him enough early to make him not completely bully them once he hits level 8-9.
Yeah, his kit makes balancing him tough but I don't think he's too out of line right now and I don't think his kit is so messed up that he deserves to be nerfed more after this next patch.
See this is where we disagree, the only conceivable way to balance Vlad without giving him mana costs is to make it so he has ZERO matchups where he isn't crushed by other champs.
|
On February 11 2012 13:57 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:04 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 11 2012 13:00 r.Evo wrote:On February 11 2012 12:53 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 11 2012 12:49 r.Evo wrote:On February 11 2012 02:12 Two_DoWn wrote:
Trundle isnt very good simply because the ONLY thing that he brings to a team is his pillar. Thats it. And even then other characters have better peel/disengage abilities than pillar (for example, alistar is MUCH better in a poke comp than trundle can ever hope to be).
The other problem he has is that his ultimate is terrible. It really doesnt DO anything for him. Optimally you need to run through the enemy team to the tank, then run through the team to the carry. All the while getting beat to shit. And his ult just isnt even that good. You barely leech life, and in terms of abilities that give stat bonuses id MUCH rather have shy's ult than trundles. I know I'm late but I can't stop myself from pointing out that TD must be talking about a different game here. In his game, the tanks form the backline and the carries are sitting in front. For some reason the tanks seem to have insane resists and therefor have to be protected by the carries. Which game is that TD? =P If fights took place in an ideal manner, sure. Unfortunatly, most of the time fights tend to be spread in a few different directions, with your damage to one side with the tanks chasing them, their damage somewhere else, and a bunch of champs in between. I mean, look at any teamfight and tell me that you can go straight from their tank to a carry without getting beat the shit out off in between. The "normal" pattern of a teamfight though is that you kinda have to cross their tankline to reach their carries. Ult their tanky champ, continue waddling towards their carries. - Their tanky dps has less tank and can be shut down easier while you can still make their dps hit you. Tadaa, goal achieved! You are considering a 2 dimensional fight only. What about a dragon fight where: @@@ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------####### ----------------------------------------------------% The enemy carries are the @ up in the brush by mid, you are in drag pit, your team splits south. Look right, ult tanky dps. Look left, charge carry. =P @USnip: You should play Dwarf Fortress. Once you've done that TD's "painting" looks like fucking art.
OI WHAT DO YOU FUCKING MEAN LOOKS LIKE ART.
IT IS ART!
|
On February 11 2012 14:02 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:57 overt wrote:
I actually think he's pretty okay where he is right now. He has champions that can fuck him up in lane by crushing him early on when he's weakest and he has match ups where his opponent can't hurt him enough early to make him not completely bully them once he hits level 8-9.
Yeah, his kit makes balancing him tough but I don't think he's too out of line right now and I don't think his kit is so messed up that he deserves to be nerfed more after this next patch. See this is where we disagree, the only conceivable way to balance Vlad without giving him mana costs is to make it so he has ZERO matchups where he isn't crushed by other champs.
Lots of APs have pretty shitty early games though so obviously certain APs can't really punish Vlad all that much at super early levels. If your solution is to just make Vlad so shitty that every champion can rape him early levels then you've just made Vlad less useful than Evelynn (and at least Eve has the prospect of a planned remake in the future).
Basically, Vlad is counter-able right now. He's definitely not the strongest AP in the game. Yet Riot is going to nerf him just after buffing him instead of waiting to see what happens to him.
|
On February 11 2012 14:08 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:02 Seiuchi wrote:On February 11 2012 13:57 overt wrote:
I actually think he's pretty okay where he is right now. He has champions that can fuck him up in lane by crushing him early on when he's weakest and he has match ups where his opponent can't hurt him enough early to make him not completely bully them once he hits level 8-9.
Yeah, his kit makes balancing him tough but I don't think he's too out of line right now and I don't think his kit is so messed up that he deserves to be nerfed more after this next patch. See this is where we disagree, the only conceivable way to balance Vlad without giving him mana costs is to make it so he has ZERO matchups where he isn't crushed by other champs. Lots of APs have pretty shitty early games though so obviously certain APs can't really punish Vlad all that much at super early levels. If your solution is to just make Vlad so shitty that every champion can rape him early levels then you've just made Vlad less useful than Evelynn (and at least Eve has the prospect of a planned remake in the future). Basically, Vlad is counter-able right now. He's definitely not the strongest AP in the game. Yet Riot is going to nerf him just after buffing him instead of waiting to see what happens to him.
vlad is completely broken right now, best solution is to revert the cooldown changes, but designers too stubborn to admit a fault and just try to nerf different things.
Same with shen, they waited over a year after nerfing his KI strike to buff it back, in hopes that nobody remembers :p
|
|
|
Ziggs GP best combo ever.
Ally got you down? Is he overextended somewhere, anywhere getting his ass beat by 3 or more enemies?
Fear not, CIRCLE OF DOOM WILL SAVE HIM AND EVEN GIVE HIM A TRIPLE KILL FOR BEING A RETARD!
Testimonial: Our Renekton was @ their wolves gettin some extra gold ya know, then outta no where (and by no where i mean their lanes and jungle) a talon, a nid and their trusty lee sin start curb stomping him for being an idiot. It was okay though GP slowed everyone down and then... BOOM! VAPORIZED TALON! COOKED NID! AND MELTED REE SIN!
|
Oh Hotshot...lol
HSGG: "Doublelift, pick me any AD hero"
DL: "Ok, I got you Graves"
HSGG: "WTF I don't want Graves, what the hell Doublelift"
DL: "Hotshot you are such a troll"
|
On February 11 2012 15:36 Koenig99 wrote:
Oh Hotshot...lol
HSGG: "Doublelift, pick me any AD hero"
DL: "Ok, I got you Graves"
HSGG: "WTF I don't want Graves, what the hell Doublelift"
DL: "Hotshot you are such a troll"
This whole game is just funny, in a twisted sort of way. HSGG spends the entire time shittalking DL, and DL spends the entire time killing everyone on the map.
edit: and then hotshot d/c's. when he gets back in the call DL asks him if he's coming back into the game, HSGG says "no, you've just gotta do this one on your own", DL: "okay". Gets triple kill in 4v5 teamfight. (granted on fed akali but still amusing).
|
So is the CLG gaming house in Korea a sure thing? Saint is on HSGG's stream saying how they're gonna be seeing each other everyday soon.
|
I dunno I'd be so wary of making such an investment. I know Doublelift doesn't have anywhere else to go so he'll stick around, but I'm still partly shocked he hasn't up and left yet anyway. CLG's cohesion as a whole has just suffered so badly, and a gaming house would either help that or just outright destroy it if some egos aren't checked.
|
Vancouver14381 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
I dunno I'd be so wary of making such an investment. I know Doublelift doesn't have anywhere else to go so he'll stick around, but I'm still partly shocked he hasn't up and left yet anyway. CLG's cohesion as a whole has just suffered so badly, and a gaming house would either help that or just outright destroy it if some egos aren't checked.
Doesn't sound like it will be permanent though if they're just staying for the OGN Proleague. They'll try to go for the grand prize and then go back to whatever they have now once it's over (especially if they can't stand each other).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
