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[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 191

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Public Service Announcement
Use the Champion threads whenever appropriate.
Don't use General Discussion simply out of ease.
=====
If you want to whine about server lag, use the QQ thread. We all suffer alike when Riot servers kaput. No need to make a post about it in GD.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 01 2012 01:49 GMT
#3801
Morgana's been nerfed! So she's probably shit now, altho T_D would say Shyvana's still worse. So, no reason to ban her anymore, right? Guys?
Also Viktor and Jax buffs. Tried a bit of Jax, played awfully bad (his jungle's so slow, even with AS reds x_o) but he's fun, and not expensive, so...
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
February 01 2012 01:51 GMT
#3802
Idk, I always thought Viktor was strong, just a champ no one played (Xerath)

No need to buff :T
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
February 01 2012 01:52 GMT
#3803
I feel like its pretty easy to dodge viktor's lazer and its a shitty spell for an ap to have as his main damage source
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-01 01:55:40
February 01 2012 01:53 GMT
#3804
On February 01 2012 10:32 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2012 10:28 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Viktor's main problem is having a crappy kit.


His kit is sick good

Q: Fat shortrange nuke with shield to discourage jumping him
W. No, seriously, you jump me im gonna fuck you in the ass, all of you
E. Poke all day while running away
R. GET OFF MY NUTS OR TAKE 2600 DAMAGE

He's like the best utility poker/harasser in the game, his kit so heavily discourages initiating onto him or his team.


I agree that parts of his kit look really appealing, but utility on an ap carry is incredibly hard to make viable. Outside of his ult (which is honestly really good now if he survives long enough, now), he has trouble with sustained damage in a fight, and obviously is not a burst champion. Utility is great when you survive long enough to make use of it. The only "utility" ap carries I see do well are Galio, who obviously has built in tanky effectiveness with his passive, W and ult. Everyone with utility has been either a support or a tank to be very viable, which Viktor isn't (non tanky base stats, very limited amount of survivability in his skills), on top of having a non existent passive. His E is mediocre at best for his main damage as an ap carry.

I was trying to be concise when I said crappy, but that was a bit of a narrowminded thing to say. I think there are fundamental problems with his stats and kit. He feels like he'll fall into the same nebulous area as Kayle, pokey ap with some great utility skills, but doesn't fill necessary roles like as good as other champs to be extremely viable.

I could very well be proven wrong but I dunno, frail utility characters aren't my thing. Q is meh, E is meh, W is really good but a utility skill on an ap carry (kind of like Cassio W without the added benefit of Cassio's E, if you get my drift).

His ult is really good unless he dies, which seems prone to happen even with his "counter initiating" ability, which usually means running away and making his ult that much less effective.
Remember Violet.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
February 01 2012 01:53 GMT
#3805
Teamfight, AOE stun and a good lazer combo with ult can be pretty damn scary.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
February 01 2012 01:53 GMT
#3806
Riot seems determined to make Jax insta ban/pick.
Seiuchi
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States931 Posts
February 01 2012 01:55 GMT
#3807
On February 01 2012 10:47 Craton wrote:
WotA nerf was dumb. Should've nerfed the stacking.


Can they just nerf the healing of spellvamp on manaless champions to 35-50% or something and call it a day?
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
February 01 2012 01:55 GMT
#3808
On February 01 2012 10:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Viktor gonna start being insta-ban, and I'm gonna be a sad AP player

I dunno. The other 8-9 champions that are in desperate need of banning basically got ignored or had no meaningful changes, so even when his ult is OP as fk I dunno that he'll get banned that much.
twitch.tv/cratonz
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
February 01 2012 01:57 GMT
#3809
On February 01 2012 10:53 RogerX wrote:
Teamfight, AOE stun and a good lazer combo with ult can be pretty damn scary.


I'm not saying it's not, I just think his role is too nebulous and ineffective for him to be super viable in comparison to other great AP carries you're more often likely to see.
Remember Violet.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-01 01:58:21
February 01 2012 01:57 GMT
#3810
On February 01 2012 10:19 UniversalSnip wrote:
His ult did NOT need more damage... haha.

Lol it already oneshots an entire team. <3 I'll be enjoying carrying noobs with my Augment Q Viktor (buff it plz so it's even more imba)


On February 01 2012 10:55 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2012 10:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Viktor gonna start being insta-ban, and I'm gonna be a sad AP player

I dunno. The other 8-9 champions that are in desperate need of banning basically got ignored or had no meaningful changes, so even when his ult is OP as fk I dunno that he'll get banned that much.

Btw you guys serious? Viktor will still be UP unless played by me with Augment Q, but they all go Augment E so he'll be awful
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
February 01 2012 01:57 GMT
#3811
Nothing is going to beat cassiopiea. 25% movement speed buff attached to 450 damage. Plus an aoe slow, plus a single target nuke on a .5 second cd, plus an frontal cone stun nuke. She's like a mash up of annie and brand into this unkillable beast. Also I never knew cassio's q increases her movement speed, I was wondering how the fuck she could keep up with nunu.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-01 01:59:49
February 01 2012 01:59 GMT
#3812
On February 01 2012 10:57 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Nothing is going to beat cassiopiea. 25% movement speed buff attached to 450 damage. Plus an aoe slow, plus a single target nuke on a .5 second cd, plus an frontal cone stun nuke. She's like a mash up of annie and brand into this unkillable beast. Also I never knew cassio's q increases her movement speed, I was wondering how the fuck she could keep up with nunu.


She and Ryze are pretty much the best ap carries. Nearly unparalleled sustained damage with survivability (different kind for each, Cassio has mad kiting and usually spell vamp with crazy damage, Ryze has tankiness).

They're obviously not perfect or uncounterable, but so incredibly solid at pretty much all phases of the game.
Remember Violet.
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
February 01 2012 02:03 GMT
#3813
was just discussing dis in LP (more than 1 person talking at a time!)
i think viktor's problem is that if he falls behind he is useless.
what this says about his kit is up for discussion.

for comparisons, other APs when behind can rely on superior initiation, CC, and utility for ganks to catch back up or to put pressure on the enemy laner, or on their superior scaling to wait on in the lategame (or a combination of the two: hi cass!).

viktor does not have the instantaneous CC, mobility, or range to make up for a decided lack of either in my opinion. Increasing his numbers will only increase the number of scenarios or lanes in which he instastomps an enemy (when he is in the lead, i do think he is a real threat and powerful). but in competitive play, in these scenarios and more neutral lanes, a jungler or roamer willing to put in the effort to make the lane playable or winnable for viktor's opponent that has superior utility or damage. someone told me that viktor's ultimate and w forces the enemy team to disperse and messes up positioning. i feel that there are too many other picks that have similar or superior effect (gragas' ult's instantaneous destruction and immediate and unalterable repositioning, cass's instant huge damage and stun / slow, various aoe CC's and mobile champs that can bait favorable fights while dealing good damage and single target cc [kass / ahri]) who can manage to play from a unfavorable situation.

i personally dislike such polar champs (win lane, win game, lose lane, lose game). obviously this is a large generalization but i feel it holds more true for viktor than for most other APs.
Hey! Listen!
DoXa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Switzerland1448 Posts
February 01 2012 02:03 GMT
#3814
I'm really liking the Ashe buffs. Though im sad that they didn't buff warwick. his base mana is soooo low. you ult and Q and you're basically done.

And the new items are pretty neat. going to test them for sure
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
February 01 2012 02:03 GMT
#3815
Spectator mode will now indicate if a Champion is at very low health on the side bars to draw attention to the area



nice they actually used my idea. when i was getting my account unbanned from permanent ban Rivington said he would pass on this idea to the design team and guess they did it pretty quick.
Brees on in
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-01 02:09:33
February 01 2012 02:08 GMT
#3816
On February 01 2012 11:03 Navi wrote:
was just discussing dis in LP (more than 1 person talking at a time!)
i think viktor's problem is that if he falls behind he is useless.
what this says about his kit is up for discussion.

for comparisons, other APs when behind can rely on superior initiation, CC, and utility for ganks to catch back up or to put pressure on the enemy laner, or on their superior scaling to wait on in the lategame (or a combination of the two: hi cass!).

viktor does not have the instantaneous CC, mobility, or range to make up for a decided lack of either in my opinion. Increasing his numbers will only increase the number of scenarios or lanes in which he instastomps an enemy (when he is in the lead, i do think he is a real threat and powerful). but in competitive play, in these scenarios and more neutral lanes, a jungler or roamer willing to put in the effort to make the lane playable or winnable for viktor's opponent that has superior utility or damage. someone told me that viktor's ultimate and w forces the enemy team to disperse and messes up positioning. i feel that there are too many other picks that have similar or superior effect (gragas' ult's instantaneous destruction and immediate and unalterable repositioning, cass's instant huge damage and stun / slow, various aoe CC's and mobile champs that can bait favorable fights while dealing good damage and single target cc [kass / ahri]) who can manage to play from a unfavorable situation.

i personally dislike such polar champs (win lane, win game, lose lane, lose game). obviously this is a large generalization but i feel it holds more true for viktor than for most other APs.


Well even if you take that to be true its really hard to lose lane as Viktor, he can just sit back and clear the whole wave with E, He's extremely hard to gank or kill in lane with QW. E has 700 range to start, and something ridiculous like 1100 max range and can be cast while moving....its the best farming skill in the game.

I know when I play Viktor that he feels like one of the safest mids.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Ecael
Profile Joined February 2008
United States6703 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-01 02:09:17
February 01 2012 02:09 GMT
#3817
On February 01 2012 11:03 Brees wrote:
Spectator mode will now indicate if a Champion is at very low health on the side bars to draw attention to the area



nice they actually used my idea. when i was getting my account unbanned from permanent ban Rivington said he would pass on this idea to the design team and guess they did it pretty quick.

They have that implemented already on tourny realm I think, the King of Europe broadcast had the low hp champs' icons flashing red on the side.

I guess this just means that it'll go live.
Divine-Sneaker
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1225 Posts
February 01 2012 02:10 GMT
#3818
Why so much hate on cass lately? I know she's good, she's among my favorite AP's, but at least she has the big requirement of being purely skillshot based. Miss q, you're fucked until it comes off CD. Burn w on bad zoning spot, no q spam for you bro. Miscalculate ult activation time or range, get fucked.

I just hope that consideration of the skill required to effectively play a champ is taken into account when looking at who is strong and who isn't.
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-01 02:11:39
February 01 2012 02:10 GMT
#3819
On February 01 2012 10:57 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2012 10:19 UniversalSnip wrote:
His ult did NOT need more damage... haha.

Lol it already oneshots an entire team. <3 I'll be enjoying carrying noobs with my Augment Q Viktor (buff it plz so it's even more imba)


Show nested quote +
On February 01 2012 10:55 Craton wrote:
On February 01 2012 10:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Viktor gonna start being insta-ban, and I'm gonna be a sad AP player

I dunno. The other 8-9 champions that are in desperate need of banning basically got ignored or had no meaningful changes, so even when his ult is OP as fk I dunno that he'll get banned that much.

Btw you guys serious? Viktor will still be UP unless played by me with Augment Q, but they all go Augment E so he'll be awful


Why the crap would you ever augment Q. The speed boost doesn't even last the 3 seconds it claims to last (it really lasts 2 seconds) and the stats it gives are the worst of the three augments. With the projectile speed increase leveling Q certainly seems much improved but augmenting it still seems entirely pointless.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
February 01 2012 02:11 GMT
#3820
On February 01 2012 11:09 Ecael wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2012 11:03 Brees wrote:
Spectator mode will now indicate if a Champion is at very low health on the side bars to draw attention to the area



nice they actually used my idea. when i was getting my account unbanned from permanent ban Rivington said he would pass on this idea to the design team and guess they did it pretty quick.

They have that implemented already on tourny realm I think, the King of Europe broadcast had the low hp champs' icons flashing red on the side.

I guess this just means that it'll go live.


yup I told them to implement this a while ago. Starcraft ideas ftw
Brees on in
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