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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
Killing her is also not really feasible. If you make any attempt to flash>ult her, she just puts up shield and then bursts you back. Best I can do is Lightning Rush her to bait the Q>attempt to juke it>Q+W her. She also doesn't really hate to autoattack that much thanks to her stupid pool. Ugh, she so dumb. -.- | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
I used to control and rape entire games solo as a jungler at this elo before the changes, now I feel that I can only do it with the two above. Is that me not being adjusting properly or every other jungler being underpowered instead of those two being overpowered? Whenever I play someone else I feel as if my overall influence on the game is much lower. =( | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On January 15 2012 16:18 r.Evo wrote: I'm starting to learn the art from the vicious saint. Top is 0-2 and bitches at you? "You just died twice 1n1 go fix your own mess" Bot is 0-2 and bitches at you? "You just fed them wards, waste of time, ur on ur own" Didn't get what he says when mid is behind yet. =D ...but seriously, "It's warded" is like the BEST answer to botlanes bitching about ganks nowadays imoimo. I feel like many players have simply never jungled before... like ever. Even on SV's stream I see lanes bitching because he isn't ganking for them despite the fact that they are pushed right to the enemy tower and have zero wards. I don't really care who you have jungling for you with what champ, its just a low percentage gank. Jungle QQ. -.- On January 15 2012 17:12 r.Evo wrote: ...am I the only person who feels as if the new jungle is balanced around stuff like Skarner or Rammus? I used to control and rape entire games solo as a jungler at this elo before the changes, now I feel that I can only do it with the two above. Is that me not being adjusting properly or every other jungler being underpowered instead of those two being overpowered? Whenever I play someone else I feel as if my overall influence on the game is much lower. =( I'd add Udyr, Shy, and LeeSin to that list. I also think that Nocturne, Maokai, and Malphite are pretty good in the new jungle too. I'm not the best player in the world, but I think the new Jungle is more about farming. If you have a good jungle speed you can get more gold from new jungle, and if you fail ganks you start to fall behind the other jungler. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 15 2012 17:12 r.Evo wrote: ...am I the only person who feels as if the new jungle is balanced around stuff like Skarner or Rammus? I used to control and rape entire games solo as a jungler at this elo before the changes, now I feel that I can only do it with the two above. Is that me not being adjusting properly or every other jungler being underpowered instead of those two being overpowered? Whenever I play someone else I feel as if my overall influence on the game is much lower. =( I mostly only jungle Udyr and Shyvana because I don't own Skarner and I really dislike Rammus' play style. Udyr does fine imo. Shyvana is hit or miss but that's more due to my skill and the luck of what teammates I get. Then again, when I play jungle Shyvana I pretty much just farm my jungle and counter-jungle all day. I only gank if it's like 100% guaranteed kill. You end up with a shit load of gold if you farm properly with her, like more than solo lanes, and contrary to what some think Shyvana is actually a really strong champion. You just have to hope that your team can survive without you ganking much 'cause your ganks are pretty garbage. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
Yes, new jungle gives much more gold. Gives about as much as a solo lane according to SV. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
This means that while a jungler who farms will initially have approximately 72% of the gold income of someone who last hits perfectly, by 16:40 that will have dropped to 65%. from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301338 is bullshit? I usually tend to trust mathcraft more than top player statements since e.g. saint farms lanes like all day. =P | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 15 2012 17:38 r.Evo wrote: Wait, so this statement: from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301338 is bullshit? I usually tend to trust mathcraft more than top player statements since e.g. saint farms lanes like all day. =P That's assuming perfect last hitting. No one gets every last hit in any game ever. Even super top level games people miss CS. Not to mention jungle Shyvana was basically made for counter-jungling in new jungle. Also, I steal my laners farm if they die to ganks...so there's that too.  | ||
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R11
Canada213 Posts
On January 15 2012 17:11 dignity wrote: So I have been playing support quite a bit lately, and I'm wondering if getting the third gold item is worth it. Does it delay your first major item too much? I've played a lot of games as support (pretty much main role) and I feel it's not worth it in general as the time for the item to pay for itself and the opportunity cost for other items is too high. The benefit is that it will grant you a lot of gold to finish off items if your team specifically intends to have a long game but I think the issue is: 1. 2 gold items is usually enough to consistently ward around the map and a little bit of gold extra for your major item. 2. I think when you play against good players or a passive laning phase, the amount of assists or kills is lower, so by the time you get your third item it will take forever for it to pay off and you will be behind if the enemy support gets a Ageis or Shureyla. 3. I've been finding that a quick Shureyla or oracle is much better if you want to gain an advantage or extend your advantage. This can lead to more gold through increased assists/kills and just help the team more in general. 4. Your third gold item is likely an ice pick or avarice blade which doesn't really build into items a support really needs. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On January 15 2012 17:38 r.Evo wrote: Wait, so this statement: from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301338 is bullshit? I usually tend to trust mathcraft more than top player statements since e.g. saint farms lanes like all day. =P What lane with evenly skilled players ever ends up with perfect last hitting? Add in looking at the mini map, harrassing, trading effectively, etc and I'd bet your average solo lane with two evenly skilled players gets maybe 70-80% of perfect farm if that. As someone who has jungled before and after the jungle changes a fair bit, you get way more gold now assuming you're playing an AoE jungle. You play like Nunu/Cho/WW/Shaco you get less gold than before, but if you can keep up with that spawn timer you are golden. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On January 15 2012 14:47 Kaneh wrote: How to farm (not just last hitting, but where to be to soak up waves) what do you mean by this one? | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Soniv and I are duo qing, and soniv choses to fully embrace his mancrush on viktor and plays him. Team says nothing, in stark contrast to the outcry given in earlier games. Fast forward to 30 minutes in: Soniv 4-3-4 Viktor (Im 8-1 on trist, fresh off of that dirty bastard soniv denying my penta by sniping a kill from me), doing the typical viktor thing of hitting people for a lot of damage, says- "You guys are the best team Ive played with as viktor. No one is complaining at all." Que our malphite: "Meh, Ive had worse trolls" | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On January 15 2012 17:38 r.Evo wrote: Wait, so this statement: from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301338 is bullshit? I usually tend to trust mathcraft more than top player statements since e.g. saint farms lanes like all day. =P The mathcraft (my mathcraft) is perfectly accurate for the scenario it described. The issue is the scenario itself isn't descriptive of most LoL matches. I threw that tidbit out there mostly as a starting point for discussion. As has been pointed out last hitting is rarely perfect. For that reason the possibility of junglers largely farming the jungle has been in the back of my mind. Passive jungling doesn't fit the current meta very well, but I can imagine it having a place in some future meta. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 15 2012 17:45 R11 wrote: I've played a lot of games as support (pretty much main role) and I feel it's not worth it in general as the time for the item to pay for itself and the opportunity cost for other items is too high. The benefit is that it will grant you a lot of gold to finish off items if your team specifically intends to have a long game but I think the issue is: 1. 2 gold items is usually enough to consistently ward around the map and a little bit of gold extra for your major item. 2. I think when you play against good players or a passive laning phase, the amount of assists or kills is lower, so by the time you get your third item it will take forever for it to pay off and you will be behind if the enemy support gets a Ageis or Shureyla. 3. I've been finding that a quick Shureyla or oracle is much better if you want to gain an advantage or extend your advantage. This can lead to more gold through increased assists/kills and just help the team more in general. 4. Your third gold item is likely an ice pick or avarice blade which doesn't really build into items a support really needs. I'd only get 3rd gold item if it's before the 13 min mark, I dunno why, I just do... | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
How do you build him ? I feel like he really needs CDR to be fully effective but have no idea how to itemize it. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 15 2012 19:30 mr_tolkien wrote: How do you build him ? I feel like he really needs CDR to be fully effective but have no idea how to itemize it. CDR Boots and dfg put you on 34% with masteries if you really want, that leaves blue elixir and it'll put you on 40. You don't really need full cdr tho, you just farm farm farm farm farm and then you gib their carry and kill everyone. DFG helps with that though. Nothing more fun against facecheckers than dfg morde. Also OMG RIOT SO UNORIGINAL NEW CHAMP IS INVERTED MOBILE ANIVIA OMG RIOT WTF. Something along those lines, surprised I haven't seen it yet by now. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On January 15 2012 19:37 JackDino wrote: CDR Boots and dfg put you on 34% with masteries if you really want, that leaves blue elixir and it'll put you on 40. You don't really need full cdr tho, you just farm farm farm farm farm and then you gib their carry and kill everyone. DFG helps with that though. Nothing more fun against facecheckers than dfg morde. Also OMG RIOT SO UNORIGINAL NEW CHAMP IS INVERTED MOBILE ANIVIA OMG RIOT WTF. Something along those lines, surprised I haven't seen it yet by now. DFG itemizes mana regen so I'm reluctant to buy it on Morde >.> I hate to pay for useless stats ! | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 15 2012 19:40 mr_tolkien wrote: DFG itemizes mana regen so I'm reluctant to buy it on Morde >.> I hate to pay for useless stats ! Yeah you better not buy lichbane on akali or morde, better not buy triforce on morde, better not buy boots on morde because he doesn't use them. In fact don't buy any armour on morde because he doesn't use it he's 40% titanium 60% other metals, can't wear armour. The mp5 on it is so small it really doesn't matter. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On January 15 2012 19:45 JackDino wrote: Yeah you better not buy lichbane on akali or morde, better not buy triforce on morde, better not buy boots on morde because he doesn't use them. In fact don't buy any armour on morde because he doesn't use it he's 40% titanium 60% other metals, can't wear armour. 10 MP5 is worth something like 450g, this is not cheap in the cost of DFG :o The mana in Lichbane/TriForce is also costly, but it's offset by a godlike passive (in a 1260g object) for Akali who has high base AD and low CDs. The access to the passive on DFG is 2k6 gold, so you have a useless item in your stash longer. I'll try it though, I really think that he's unkillable with CDR and massive spellvamp. | ||
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