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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2012 16:45 tobi9999 wrote:
Damn, why do they build philo..... Ninja Tabi then HoG is #1 build or just keep cloth armor
Because there's clearly only one way to build a hero, regardless of what role you have to play for your team, or what position you're playing?
Tabi->HoG is ok for a 2nd/3rd position-minded build. If you're playing a 4th position tanky support-ish role (as most junglers are now relegated to in competitive games), you need Philo to supplement your gold income. You're also going to turn it into Shurelya's fairly early in that kind of role as well.
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I think running Vlad was Doublelift's idea. He thinks vlad is a counter to the bruiser top meta so he wanted to try out Vlad in a scrim before they stopped scrimming for the night. He talked about it on SOTL with Wicked and HSGG.
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Baa?21247 Posts
Vlad is super good tbh, very underrated.
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On January 12 2012 17:01 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 16:45 tobi9999 wrote:
Damn, why do they build philo..... Ninja Tabi then HoG is #1 build or just keep cloth armor Because there's clearly only one way to build a hero, regardless of what role you have to play for your team, or what position you're playing? Tabi->HoG is a 2nd/3rd position-minded build. If you're playing a 4th position tanky support-ish role (as most junglers are now relegated to in competitive games), you need Philo to supplement your gold income. You're also going to turn it into Shurelya's fairly early in that kind of role as well.
Saint? support role?
He's building Rylais, something usually only seen by solotop Singed to rape people when fed. Jungle Singed needs Randuins fast. and yes he needs to build shurelias, but philostone openings don't work because of how weak he is in jungle without cloth 5.
SaintVicious wasted more money on pots than money he gained with philostone because he was unable to sustain in jungle :/
EDIT: I just feel like Saint is investing in the wrong items because he is misinformed :/ Like that one time where he though Madreds + wriggles was a good investment because they stacked. Except he still think that T_T
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Moral of the story from today's scrims: Wards are good.
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On January 12 2012 17:00 tobi9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 16:58 overt wrote:On January 12 2012 16:45 tobi9999 wrote:
EDIT: Why the fk does Chauster think Vlad is so good, when the only person he can beat is regi, and it's only because Vlad works against Regi's playstyle of aggression. Sure he is strong lategame, but there are so many other APs that are even better like Karth/Ryze/Cassio He just won lane against Yorick too. Chauster's Vlad is really fucking good. Like Salce levels of good. no he didn't, he got outcs'd and only got kills because singed helped a bit, while jarvan got 2 dragons due to jungler being top.
It's hard to judge it perfectly because no vision of top lane aside from mini-map. Saint went top because HSGG/Doublelift were constantly pushed to enemy tower at bottom lane and giving Jarvan free kills when he ganked.
Chauster played the lane well and at the end of the game saint even commented that Chauster "dominated his lane." Regardless, he got two kills in lane against Yorick, who cares if they involved the jungler?
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Man, the jax remake really is retarded, used to be one of the most fun champs, a bruiser with a unique build, now he'll just be another tanky dps that goes fucking atmogs, real fucking dumb.
Sure, you can still build like a rageblade or a gunblade on him, enjoy dying way faster though.
Also phreak rushing triforce, called it.
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On January 12 2012 11:43 Alaric wrote:
E range is actually greater than 600 if you only want to hit a specific target as you've still the dragging component. It's 600 to the start of the lazer.
I agree that there's nothing he's best at tho: outclassed at farming, outclassed at range by Xerath, as solotop by Ryze/Swain, as sustained dps by Ryze/Cass/etc., as bursty mage by... well, let's say Annie for example.
He does a lot of stuff, he's very versatile, but at the cost of not being outstanding anywhere (except perhaps at farming). Also, his tools are kinda expensive — rylai+wota makes him the kind of mobile character I like a lot during clean-up phases, where the range on E and the delay allow you to slow pursuers from out of their potentiel gap closers' range, but also allows you to catchup. When big bursts have been expended the spell vamp + shield on Q's actually decent, and the cooldown on his stun at high level allows it to be used several times during a chase.
I use Augment:Death to make sure I'll OS the wave (I hit a lot, and I mean easily 4-5, timings if I rush rylai or other stuff while aiming for Gravity, where I E the wave to see every minion à 35 hp, bleh), but the range from Gravity allowing you to actually cut retreats, play in the jungle initiate on people I really miss.
Also, can't play Panth on my smurf. So many retarded people, it doesn't matter if I crush that Riven when Talon bot is 10-0 and has got Phage+Bruta when I end the latter. Plus he doesn't actually fall off as hard as me.
I hear a lot of people talk about q-w in the laning phase, to be honest I rarely use W exept in defensive situations or times when I really go for the kill, but my main harass is E and if you level it first (I take Q as my first skill but from then on max E first) it starts to hit HARD fast. The range on it is great, and basically against most mids if you hit m twice you can combo them down with your ult as soon as laser's back up.
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Thats pretty much the biggest thing I found with most viktors that end up being underwhelming. They focus way too hard on q/w. All the viktors that I see do well focus on E and use W defensively.
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On January 12 2012 17:29 JackDino wrote:
Man, the jax remake really is retarded, used to be one of the most fun champs, a bruiser with a unique build, now he'll just be another tanky dps that goes fucking atmogs, real fucking dumb.
Sure, you can still build like a rageblade or a gunblade on him, enjoy dying way faster though.
I quoted Phreak a few pages back, but I'll just link now
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1698545
Jax is going to get his stats changed to compensate for his lack of a passive. The plan is to give him more viable builds and they will nerf or buff him depending how balanced he when released. As far as his response to the atmog comments
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=19599949#post19599949
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On January 12 2012 17:37 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 17:29 JackDino wrote:
Man, the jax remake really is retarded, used to be one of the most fun champs, a bruiser with a unique build, now he'll just be another tanky dps that goes fucking atmogs, real fucking dumb.
Sure, you can still build like a rageblade or a gunblade on him, enjoy dying way faster though. I quoted Phreak a few pages back, but I'll just link now http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1698545Jax is going to get his stats changed to compensate for his lack of a passive. The plan is to give him more viable builds and they will nerf or buff him depending how balanced he when released. As far as his response to the atmog comments http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=19599949#post19599949
That's not the point, the point is he'll just be another tanky dps with the usual tanky dps, if you build rageblade/gunblade on him you'll die really fast, especially with the loss of ~80 free MR, they'd have to buff him a lot to make up for the lost hp/mr.
It also looks like he has a 10second cd or so on his E, huge nerf to his survivability again(he ran away from a tryndamere lol).
You're quoting phreak who rushes triforce saying atmogs isn't an optimal build, when triforce is a shitty item on him aswell(too expensive for what it gives him), or the fact that phreak uses 5% attackspeed from runes which is terrible, especially with the nerf to his ult you really need mr/lvl runes.
The fact that they say he might do well vs trynd in lane after the remake(quoting one of those rioters) just goes to show that they have no clue about the champ lol, or the fact that phreak says that atmogs is bad on him when atmas is a great item on him, except after the remake he'll need a source of HP somewhere.
Despite scaling with AP, he'll just be another tanky dps. You won't have dodge anymore, you won't have MR anymore and you won't have the free hp anymore. Anyone who will build glasscannon is crazy.
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wriggles + pure tank jax might be somewhat viable
he might be a good aura holder too, because he's someone you are disensentivized to focus because of dodge and aoe stun
honestly he didn't look that bad to me in the spotlight. not OP by any means but probably actually balanced
the best champs are the balanced ones. look at leona.
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I'm currently trying to learn morgana and i don't get how the fuck other people are so good with her.
The problem is the laning phase: i get tons of cs and most of the times i am outcsing my opponent. No wonder i guess - i just W the creeps, get all the cs and look how my opponent doesnt get his cs because his tower kills some of them.
But how do i kill him? Most of the times the creeps are between me and my opponent so i can't hit him with Q. And of course they run instantly out of my W because im having such trouble hitting them with Q. Is it even possible to kill them when they know how to play?
And when the miracle happens and my W -> Q combo hits them - this wont happen again until they are back to full hp 
Team fights are no problem though - i'm landing really good ults and use my hourglass correctly. Even catch some of them with Q - no wonder when you shoot it at a whole group of enemies and not a single target like in the laning phase.
I know that lvl 6 combo can give you an easy kill. R -> W -> Q -> ignite. They are slowed cause of the R and so i can land my Q. But i wanna get a kill pre 6. I see soooo many Morgana players getting fed really early - how do they do that? I just don't get it. All i can think of is "learn to hit with Q" - but i don't know how to improve this. Always trying to do this when there are no creeps between us.
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In my experience against a good mid it will be hard to get a kill early on, basically only if they really go for you (in which case they'll usually leave minion cover). To be honest I get most of my kills from Morgana killing the would-be-ganker, or ganking other lanes etc.
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On January 12 2012 18:31 Vibes wrote:I'm currently trying to learn morgana and i don't get how the fuck other people are so good with her. The problem is the laning phase: i get tons of cs and most of the times i am outcsing my opponent. No wonder i guess - i just W the creeps, get all the cs and look how my opponent doesnt get his cs because his tower kills some of them. But how do i kill him? Most of the times the creeps are between me and my opponent so i can't hit him with Q. And of course they run instantly out of my W because im having such trouble hitting them with Q. Is it even possible to kill them when they know how to play? And when the miracle happens and my W -> Q combo hits them - this wont happen again until they are back to full hp Team fights are no problem though - i'm landing really good ults and use my hourglass correctly. Even catch some of them with Q - no wonder when you shoot it at a whole group of enemies and not a single target like in the laning phase. I know that lvl 6 combo can give you an easy kill. R -> W -> Q -> ignite. They are slowed cause of the R and so i can land my Q. But i wanna get a kill pre 6. I see soooo many Morgana players getting fed really early - how do they do that? I just don't get it. All i can think of is "learn to hit with Q" - but i don't know how to improve this. Always trying to do this when there are no creeps between us.
first thing you do is push the first 2 waves hard with W, right when the second wave dies you Q your opponent. if it hits, he tanks all creeps plus your ignite and lost the lane right there.
Otherwise, against some opponents simply pushing and not dying wins the lane. Others are fragile and cant take even only 1 W tick per wave for very long. But for outright killing, the opponent would have to make a mistake and be agressive at the wrong time so that you can start with R and not with your Q.
Spamming Q and hoping it hits isnt how you should play morgana in lane.
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On January 12 2012 16:56 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 15:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 15:42 Skithiryx wrote:On January 12 2012 15:33 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 15:31 Chrispy wrote:Considering Riot felt Sunfire cape was too strong while doing 40 magic damage I'm pretty sure 35 true damage would indeed be op. Hahaha. IMO they just need to make stacking sunfires possible again. 3 sunfire cape Garen.. *sigh* I miss it so much. Me too. And that was back when last whisper was actually good too. T_T God the game was so much better back then. Brutalizer > IEdge > LWhisper on your ranged carries, those were the days when MF was still viable as well QQ Seriously. Its like anyone who says LW is still a great item has brainwashed themselves. Its like saying rabbadons is a good item compared to how it used to be Zhonyas ring. To be fair, Rabadon's when it first came out was arguably stronger than ZRing. because the cost-effectiveness was batshit insane. ZRing didn't become cost-effective for the AP till you got 80 outside AP. Rabadon's gave 700 gold extra worth of AP with NO outside AP. With ~80 outside AP (runes, DRings, etc.), you were essentially paying the cost of 2 NLRs and getting almost a 3rd one for free.
I wouldn't say arguably, rabadon's was grossly op when it first came out
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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2012 19:19 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 16:56 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2012 15:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 15:42 Skithiryx wrote:On January 12 2012 15:33 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 15:31 Chrispy wrote:Considering Riot felt Sunfire cape was too strong while doing 40 magic damage I'm pretty sure 35 true damage would indeed be op. Hahaha. IMO they just need to make stacking sunfires possible again. 3 sunfire cape Garen.. *sigh* I miss it so much. Me too. And that was back when last whisper was actually good too. T_T God the game was so much better back then. Brutalizer > IEdge > LWhisper on your ranged carries, those were the days when MF was still viable as well QQ Seriously. Its like anyone who says LW is still a great item has brainwashed themselves. Its like saying rabbadons is a good item compared to how it used to be Zhonyas ring. To be fair, Rabadon's when it first came out was arguably stronger than ZRing. because the cost-effectiveness was batshit insane. ZRing didn't become cost-effective for the AP till you got 80 outside AP. Rabadon's gave 700 gold extra worth of AP with NO outside AP. With ~80 outside AP (runes, DRings, etc.), you were essentially paying the cost of 2 NLRs and getting almost a 3rd one for free. I wouldn't say arguably, rabadon's was grossly op when it first came out
It depends on the hero that was getting it. For anyone that got ZRing before, I think ZRing was better. For anyone that didn't, Rabadon's was.
I also think Rabadon's was a complete failure for Riot from a design standpoint. Their express goal was to create more itemization diversity for AP heroes, but they instead made an item that every AP will get in 90% of games. There was actually much wider variation in AP builds BEFORE DCap existed, than after.
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On January 12 2012 19:23 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 19:19 UniversalSnip wrote:On January 12 2012 16:56 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2012 15:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 15:42 Skithiryx wrote:On January 12 2012 15:33 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 15:31 Chrispy wrote:Considering Riot felt Sunfire cape was too strong while doing 40 magic damage I'm pretty sure 35 true damage would indeed be op. Hahaha. IMO they just need to make stacking sunfires possible again. 3 sunfire cape Garen.. *sigh* I miss it so much. Me too. And that was back when last whisper was actually good too. T_T God the game was so much better back then. Brutalizer > IEdge > LWhisper on your ranged carries, those were the days when MF was still viable as well QQ Seriously. Its like anyone who says LW is still a great item has brainwashed themselves. Its like saying rabbadons is a good item compared to how it used to be Zhonyas ring. To be fair, Rabadon's when it first came out was arguably stronger than ZRing. because the cost-effectiveness was batshit insane. ZRing didn't become cost-effective for the AP till you got 80 outside AP. Rabadon's gave 700 gold extra worth of AP with NO outside AP. With ~80 outside AP (runes, DRings, etc.), you were essentially paying the cost of 2 NLRs and getting almost a 3rd one for free. I wouldn't say arguably, rabadon's was grossly op when it first came out It depends on the hero that was getting it. For anyone that got ZRing before, I think ZRing was better. For anyone that didn't, Rabadon's was. I also think Rabadon's was a complete failure for Riot from a design standpoint. Their express goal was to create more itemization diversity for AP heroes, but they instead made an item that every AP will get in 90% of games. There was actually much wider variation in AP builds BEFORE DCap existed, than after.
The issue with ZRing was that superoffensive AP glasscannons got the powerfull defensive active stasis even without making a conscious decision to include a defensive item or even a tradeoff in terms of offensive capability.
Itemization diversity doesn´t mean having several items serve the same purpose for the sake of having different icons in the inventory.
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Was watching chu8's stream last night (saw Loci trying out a lot of Shen permutations, hihi), and Reidan was playing quite a lot of jungle Kassadin on the enemy teams and doing fairly decently (was first pick, so baited a lot of lane counters to Kass, too). He's got some VODs up (games against Dyrus on his smurf, etc), and I found them fairly diverting : http://www.own3d.tv/video/376949/Reidan_Kassadin_Jungle_1
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On January 12 2012 18:46 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 18:31 Vibes wrote:I'm currently trying to learn morgana and i don't get how the fuck other people are so good with her. The problem is the laning phase: i get tons of cs and most of the times i am outcsing my opponent. No wonder i guess - i just W the creeps, get all the cs and look how my opponent doesnt get his cs because his tower kills some of them. But how do i kill him? Most of the times the creeps are between me and my opponent so i can't hit him with Q. And of course they run instantly out of my W because im having such trouble hitting them with Q. Is it even possible to kill them when they know how to play? And when the miracle happens and my W -> Q combo hits them - this wont happen again until they are back to full hp Team fights are no problem though - i'm landing really good ults and use my hourglass correctly. Even catch some of them with Q - no wonder when you shoot it at a whole group of enemies and not a single target like in the laning phase. I know that lvl 6 combo can give you an easy kill. R -> W -> Q -> ignite. They are slowed cause of the R and so i can land my Q. But i wanna get a kill pre 6. I see soooo many Morgana players getting fed really early - how do they do that? I just don't get it. All i can think of is "learn to hit with Q" - but i don't know how to improve this. Always trying to do this when there are no creeps between us. first thing you do is push the first 2 waves hard with W, right when the second wave dies you Q your opponent. if it hits, he tanks all creeps plus your ignite and lost the lane right there. Otherwise, against some opponents simply pushing and not dying wins the lane. Others are fragile and cant take even only 1 W tick per wave for very long. But for outright killing, the opponent would have to make a mistake and be agressive at the wrong time so that you can start with R and not with your Q. Spamming Q and hoping it hits isnt how you should play morgana in lane.
Never thought about trying that, as even with mp5/lvl yellows it's quite mana intensive early on... it's kinda reliant about hitting Q on an expecting opponent too (I know that unless I get caught in an awkward place, as long as I stay on the lookout it'll take a decent player to hit me with a skillshot and I'm not even good), plus the snare isn't that long at level 1, do they get to tank that much damage from the minions?
I agree for the rest, except if it's a melee/low range like Gragas/Swain (and one will outfarm you, the other outsustain after some levels) you generally need them to make a mistake to get caught into W.
You don't have to cast it right away tho, you can use it to last hit the first low health minion. If people want to be conservative with their mana and get close to auto-attack, that can get you one or two ticks if they aren't positioning well.
Also, there's ganks. Thanks to the pushing and the shield, you can stand in the middle of the lane and bait ganks, or setup counterganks. Depending on your positioning and your opponent's, you can try to trick them as they want to put the minions between you two, and can't stand in the wave, to make ganks easier for your jungler.
When you want to combo somebody, you do start with Q. But as soon as you're sure it'll connect, you cast W so that they eat a tick before, and then you R so that once the snare wears off, they either flash or the slow means they'll eat the full W (that shit hurts, ironically not as much as Nasus' spirit fire—noticed that, better base, scaling, AoE and burst for less mana, good thing Nasus isn't AP  ). If the debuff is still active when the second burst of R hits, they'll be at 0 MR (or close to it, and you've got mpen runes), so making them eat as much ticks as you can before hitting the other spells is an important part of the combo.
I need to get more aggressive and go gank other lanes more often with her.
But I need to be able to play her for this.
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EPT
