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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2012 13:57 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 13:49 barbsq wrote:On January 12 2012 13:39 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2012 13:36 Craton wrote:
I already dislike Rylai's in many cases because of the ability for you to be permaslowed with little to no available counterplay. I don't really want to see that proliferated, especially when you consider how easily the champs who can use it can already stick to their target. What situations are those? The last time someone made that complaint to me, their situation essentially amounted to "OMG QQ I tried to 1v1 Vlad and was losing/someone else from their team came, so I tried to run and couldn't get away!". That's not a situation that needs counterplay--you made a bad choice to engage and got punished for it. Most situations I can think of where Rylai's permaslow is practically similar (e.g. a situation where there are no CCs to interrupt the chain-casting of a spammable nuke) are like that one. EDIT: Also as far as item design goes. I maintain that Riot hasn't done enough in exploring the possibilities for more item actives. necroboooookkkkk Aghanim?
I mean, there's obviously shit that Riot isn't going to put in the game because it's hard to do with LoL's interface (summoning items like Necrobook or Manta), is obviously too powerful for LoL's power level (Sheepstick or BKB), or is against other design principles (sustain items like Soul Ring or Arcane Boots).
If we're talking about items that are conceivable to add to LoL, I'd ask why Riot hasn't added something like Medallion (-armor on target enemy while also applying same -armor debuff to yourself) or Buckler/Pipe (or other ally-castable defensive buffs).
Personally, I think supports would love having an item active that would let them put a shield or defensive buff on a teammate.
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1% of champs who would reasonably buy an ad spellvamp item:
Caitlyn, Corki, Garen, Graves, Irelia, Jax, lee sin, MF, Pantheon, Renek, Riven, Skarner, Talon, Urgot, Wukong.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
1% of champs who would reasonably buy an ad spellvamp item:
Caitlyn, Corki, Garen, Graves, Irelia, Jax, lee sin, MF, Pantheon, Renek, Riven, Skarner, Talon, Urgot, Wukong.
I think one of the problems with an AD spellvamp item is that a sustain item that's potentially even stronger than Wriggle's for a lot of these guys is a worrisome prospect for Riot (particularly the manaless guys).
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On January 12 2012 14:00 Alzadar wrote:
Re: Sunfire
I've started really preferring it on Malphite (over Warmog's), you get enough health from other sources that you're still tanky enough with the lower health amount. It synergizes very well with Abyssal Scepter to make a very nice two item combo that provides a lot of defence and a lot of damage.
The only significant bonus you get from the recipe upgrade is the passive itself, so it's 800g for 35 magic damage per second in an AoE. It sounds like a small amount but it's actually pretty good, especially on someone like Malphite where you're going to be standing right in the middle of the enemy team. In a teamfight you could easily do 600+ magic damage across the board.
It gives you a similar amount of damage to Atma's (hard to compare of course), but you don't have to sink 800g on crit chance, so for a character where crit is no good, I think Sunfire is better.
The magic damage is going to be reduced by MR and most of the enemy team is going to have atleast 100MR so you're essentially doing only 18min damage per second.
Also atma is pretty cost efficient even without any health items. 45armor - 700 gold (chainmail) and 45AD is 1650 gold (BF Sword) which you get with 2250health. That is already the item cost of atmas (700+1650=2350).
Now consider that the damage is going to increase with any health you buy+it gives you 18% crit.
If you say that atmas doesn't give you health but Sunfire does, you should just spend a bit more for randuin's which is way more cost efficient while having superb utility teamfights. It also build from HoG, so you can sit on it for a while unless randuin is your first major item.
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A lot of champions would be super broken with a good AD spellvamp item.
I disagree with your picks though. Caitlyn, Irelia, MF, Skarner and Wukong wouldn't really benefit very much from it.
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On January 12 2012 14:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 14:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
1% of champs who would reasonably buy an ad spellvamp item:
Caitlyn, Corki, Garen, Graves, Irelia, Jax, lee sin, MF, Pantheon, Renek, Riven, Skarner, Talon, Urgot, Wukong. I think one of the problems with an AD spellvamp item is that a sustain item that's potentially even stronger than Wriggle's for a lot of these guys is a worrisome prospect for Riot (particularly the manaless guys).
You say that, but there is an item that gives spellvamp and ap and fucking STACKS. You might have heard of it.
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nevermind maybe he can =S
Either way, Jax's ulti looks way terrible now o.O just me?
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On January 12 2012 14:14 Alzadar wrote:
A lot of champions would be super broken with a good AD spellvamp item.
I disagree with your picks though. Caitlyn, Irelia, MF, Skarner and Wukong wouldn't really benefit very much from it.
It would be amazing on a Cait in a poke comp. Q wave, gain health. Irelia+ult TRY to argue it wouldnt be very good. Same on MF. Skarner Q- heath every 2 seconds if you wanted to go that route. Wukong q, e, ult would all like some free healing.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2012 14:16 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 14:10 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2012 14:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
1% of champs who would reasonably buy an ad spellvamp item:
Caitlyn, Corki, Garen, Graves, Irelia, Jax, lee sin, MF, Pantheon, Renek, Riven, Skarner, Talon, Urgot, Wukong. I think one of the problems with an AD spellvamp item is that a sustain item that's potentially even stronger than Wriggle's for a lot of these guys is a worrisome prospect for Riot (particularly the manaless guys). You say that, but there is an item that gives spellvamp and ap and fucking STACKS. You might have heard of it.
And hasn't that proven to be a problem on manaless AP casters?
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On January 12 2012 14:14 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 14:00 Alzadar wrote:
Re: Sunfire
I've started really preferring it on Malphite (over Warmog's), you get enough health from other sources that you're still tanky enough with the lower health amount. It synergizes very well with Abyssal Scepter to make a very nice two item combo that provides a lot of defence and a lot of damage.
The only significant bonus you get from the recipe upgrade is the passive itself, so it's 800g for 35 magic damage per second in an AoE. It sounds like a small amount but it's actually pretty good, especially on someone like Malphite where you're going to be standing right in the middle of the enemy team. In a teamfight you could easily do 600+ magic damage across the board.
It gives you a similar amount of damage to Atma's (hard to compare of course), but you don't have to sink 800g on crit chance, so for a character where crit is no good, I think Sunfire is better. The magic damage is going to be reduced by MR and most of the enemy team is going to have atleast 100MR so you're essentially doing only 18min damage per second. Also atma is pretty cost efficient even without any health items. 45armor - 700 gold (chainmail) and 45AD is 1650 gold (BF Sword) which you get with 2250health. That is already the item cost of atmas (700+1650=2350). Now consider that the damage is going to increase with any health you buy+it gives you 18% crit. If you say that atmas doesn't give you health but Sunfire does, you should just spend a bit more for randuin's which is way more cost efficient while having superb utility teamfights. It also build from HoG, so you can sit on it for a while unless randuin is your first major item.
Eh, resistances don't really have anything to do with it. By the same token, most of the enemy team is going to have 150 armor so your Atma's only actually gives you 40% of the AD it displays. There's no use in bringing that variable into the discussion when it effects any item you could buy.
Atma's is good for auto attackers, but there a lot of tanky champions that don't scale well with AD, so the cost efficiency doesn't matter. Rageblade is the most cost efficient item in the game but you rarely see it, because few actually make use of its stats.
On Malphite I actually do go Sunfire -> Randuins as my first two big items, depending on the state of the enemy AP carry might have to get Negatron before Randuins.
On January 12 2012 14:19 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 14:14 Alzadar wrote:
A lot of champions would be super broken with a good AD spellvamp item.
I disagree with your picks though. Caitlyn, Irelia, MF, Skarner and Wukong wouldn't really benefit very much from it. It would be amazing on a Cait in a poke comp. Q wave, gain health. Irelia+ult TRY to argue it wouldnt be very good. Same on MF. Skarner Q- heath every 2 seconds if you wanted to go that route. Wukong q, e, ult would all like some free healing.
Why not just get lifesteal as all those characters if you need regen? A Piltover Peacemaker on a bunch of minions with 20% spellvamp would heal like 200 hp, she could get that from like 5 auto attacks with the same lifesteal.
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On January 12 2012 14:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 14:16 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 14:10 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2012 14:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
1% of champs who would reasonably buy an ad spellvamp item:
Caitlyn, Corki, Garen, Graves, Irelia, Jax, lee sin, MF, Pantheon, Renek, Riven, Skarner, Talon, Urgot, Wukong. I think one of the problems with an AD spellvamp item is that a sustain item that's potentially even stronger than Wriggle's for a lot of these guys is a worrisome prospect for Riot (particularly the manaless guys). You say that, but there is an item that gives spellvamp and ap and fucking STACKS. You might have heard of it. And hasn't that proven to be a problem on manaless AP casters?
And riot has done what with it?
The other difference is that the only physical casters without mana are renek (who already has a heal) and riven (who is already broken). All the rest have mana. Not to mention the fact that unlike ap carries, pysical casters all have the downside of being melee, which means that even if you have spell vamp on riven, you will still get shat on if they send swain, kennen, or ryze top. And autoattacking bruisers can buy wriggles already, which gives them an innate advantage over someone who wants to be using spells to harass.
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Sooooo
Jax's counterstrike cooldown is apparently either 13 or 14 seconds at max ranks. Good job ruining the champion...
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I think it has mentioned before but imo Sunfire would be a better looking item if its aoe was just straight true dmg. I think where it is now it feels so weak with any resistances at all.
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On January 12 2012 14:24 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 14:20 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2012 14:16 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 12 2012 14:10 TheYango wrote:On January 12 2012 14:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
1% of champs who would reasonably buy an ad spellvamp item:
Caitlyn, Corki, Garen, Graves, Irelia, Jax, lee sin, MF, Pantheon, Renek, Riven, Skarner, Talon, Urgot, Wukong. I think one of the problems with an AD spellvamp item is that a sustain item that's potentially even stronger than Wriggle's for a lot of these guys is a worrisome prospect for Riot (particularly the manaless guys). You say that, but there is an item that gives spellvamp and ap and fucking STACKS. You might have heard of it. And hasn't that proven to be a problem on manaless AP casters? And riot has done what with it? The other difference is that the only physical casters without mana are renek (who already has a heal) and riven (who is already broken). All the rest have mana. Not to mention the fact that unlike ap carries, pysical casters all have the downside of being melee, which means that even if you have spell vamp on riven, you will still get shat on if they send swain, kennen, or ryze top. And autoattacking bruisers can buy wriggles already, which gives them an innate advantage over someone who wants to be using spells to harass.
Just because Riot hasn't done anything with Wota doesn't mean they aren't aware of it. There are also only a handful of manaless AP casters, and they benefit hugely from wota.
And being melee doesn't matter. They are inherently tankier BECAUSE they are in melee range. I'm not sure why you're arguing in favor of an item that would make these bruisers even tankier and more survivable when we already know that sustain is a problem, especially top lane.
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Huge Props to Riot for their public opposition towards SOPA. I don't know if other game companies are doing/have been doing this but nonetheless, much Riot has gained much e-respect from me.
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On January 12 2012 14:08 Two_DoWn wrote:
1% of champs who would reasonably buy an ad spellvamp item:
Caitlyn, Corki, Garen, Graves, Irelia, Jax, lee sin, MF, Pantheon, Renek, Riven, Skarner, Talon, Urgot, Wukong.
That is not a "reasonable" list in the slightest.
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On January 12 2012 14:44 Brambled wrote:
I think it has mentioned before but imo Sunfire would be a better looking item if its aoe was just straight true dmg. I think where it is now it feels so weak with any resistances at all.
wouldnt 35 true damage a second be a bit op? esp since it'd be a passive aura
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Considering Riot felt Sunfire cape was too strong while doing 40 magic damage I'm pretty sure 35 true damage would indeed be op. Hahaha.
IMO they just need to make stacking sunfires possible again.  3 sunfire cape Garen.. *sigh* I miss it so much.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 12 2012 15:31 Chrispy wrote:Considering Riot felt Sunfire cape was too strong while doing 40 magic damage I'm pretty sure 35 true damage would indeed be op. Hahaha. IMO they just need to make stacking sunfires possible again. 3 sunfire cape Garen.. *sigh* I miss it so much.
Me too. And that was back when last whisper was actually good too. T_T
God the game was so much better back then.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i55.tinypic.com/9zq1ar.jpg)
