[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 155

On January 11 2012 09:16 UniversalSnip wrote:
Things I don't like about the new masteries:

- Highest half or so of defense tree blows
- Poor readability on utility tree, I have no idea what the value of the majority of these masteries are. We're talking about marginal advantages per point and since the benefits are basically invisible in game there's no opacity to point selection here. I suspect I would actually be using this on some non-supports if I had any idea what I was getting in game. Since 21 defense kind of evidently sucks this ends up making offense look crazy op.
- Still some 'trap' masteries like the 0.5% damage. There's more than enough customization options that distinguish new players from experienced ones in the items, why in the masteries too...? When you pick a shitty item in game somebody will educate you and you learn, when you pick a shitty mastery you will probably have it indefinitely.
- Summoner masteries, I don't understand the purpose of these. I'm really confused about this, why not just have the upgraded versions by default? Nothing more annoying than going back and having to reset everything for one mastery point switch, I don't see how I as a player am getting more fun out of putting one point in these things or not. It's not even a meaningful choice because the alternative is almost always worthless.

Things I do like:
- Pretty much everything else, the new trees are just more usable than the old ones, there's less garbage and i like having the offense tree be a viable caster option.

On January 11 2012 09:24 Mufaa wrote:
Are there any jungle champs who can punish an overextended lanes with almost guaranteed results in solo q? I know rammus and Shaco but they're perm bans at my ELO and I usually jungle GP but before ulti his ganks are really lackluster and while I have no problems just jungling if ganks aren't going to accomplish anything, I run into a lot of "omfg noob GP can't gank, gg" which often results in whoever is raging throwing the game. Most of the time it feels like if I had gotten a positive early gank instead of turning a lane into a farmfest the game would be different (based off of the few games I can go Shaco or rammus). I've tried amumu but his seem to require too much team assistance when 9/10 times no lane is organized and I can't rely on them for anything but AA and using abilities if it'll net them the kb.

On January 11 2012 09:33 Attakijing wrote:
Do you guys think I could just post a thread on the TL dota 2 forum and ask them what it's like for someone who has played a lot of LoL? I understand a lot of the basics, like the map is bigger, denying, moves are larger in scale do more damage and cost more mana, long lane short lane, carries carry harder, no ap, couriers...

what I want to know is what is actually different about the games, not little details. in LoL the meta is still very strict, and the people that stay in lanes basically ignore the rest of the map, focus intently on last hitting and using their spells to implicitly deny last hits and zone, and then the jungler has a giant responsibility w/r/t macro. each lane is essentially expected to stay aware of the map just so that they don't die, but most people don't do this even at high level play and it is almost impossible to kill someone under their tower without dying until at least level 6-8. (edit: i forgot to mention, after laning phase the game becomes this really boring warding/teamfight baiting game that i can never watch even if my two favorite teams are fighting each other)

From what I can tell about dota, it is a lot harder in general--maybe if you are facing 1 or 2 specific heroes they can just teleport in from off screen and kill you. So in general laning seems a lot more technical and skill/practice-based in dota while in LoL it is much more interesting, whereas the macro is dramatically more interesting than the macro of LoL. This makes dota a way better spectator sport but LoL is more immediate fun.

This came from the post earlier where a guy said that dota is not changing (which i also thought was true) and someone told him that in fact dota is changing faster than LoL. That completely changes my idea of what dota is...i thought LoL was the one where the meta changes every week because of huge buffs/nerfs and new champions like xerath or riven that go beyond what any champion was capable of before them.

If you guys have something to say it would be nice, but i also want to hear from people that like dota/dota 2 more than LoL...i'm just not sure if this would make a good thread or not. it would basically just be a copypaste of this post.

On January 11 2012 09:16 UniversalSnip wrote:
Things I don't like about the new masteries:

- Highest half or so of defense tree blows
- Poor readability on utility tree, I have no idea what the value of the majority of these masteries are. We're talking about marginal advantages per point and since the benefits are basically invisible in game there's no opacity to point selection here. I suspect I would actually be using this on some non-supports if I had any idea what I was getting in game. Since 21 defense kind of evidently sucks (at least to me, I'm not sure if anyone else agrees with this) it ends up making offense look crazy op.
- Still some 'trap' masteries like the 0.5% damage. There's more than enough customization options that distinguish new players from experienced ones in the items, why in the masteries too...? When you pick a shitty item in game somebody will educate you and you learn, when you pick a shitty mastery you will probably have it indefinitely.
- Summoner masteries, I don't understand the purpose of these. I'm really confused about this, why not just have the upgraded versions by default? Nothing more annoying than going back and having to reset everything for one mastery point switch, I don't see how I as a player am getting more fun out of putting one point in these things or not. It's not even a meaningful choice because the alternative is almost always worthless.

Things I do like:
- Pretty much everything else, the new trees are just more usable than the old ones, there's less garbage and i like having the offense tree be a viable caster option.

I still don't understand the new jungle. I really feel there needs to be more math on this.

I suspect there actually is a paucity of gold in the jungle simply because gp10 is so attractive at the moment - this would point to gold being a giffen good out of the jungle. On the other hand it could simply be a result of less protracted combat coming out of the jungle and the creeps not really being a threat, which is the kind of thing that tends to make laners build gp10... or it could be something else. I don't know.

On January 11 2012 08:44 Kenpachi wrote:
I forgot Xin Zhao existed
he still sucks

On January 11 2012 09:50 Attakijing wrote:

fuck i searched for "dota lol" in post content and couldnt find anything.

On January 11 2012 09:33 Attakijing wrote:
Do you guys think I could just post a thread on the TL dota 2 forum and ask them what it's like for someone who has played a lot of LoL? I understand a lot of the basics, like the map is bigger, denying, moves are larger in scale do more damage and cost more mana, long lane short lane, carries carry harder, no ap, couriers...

what I want to know is what is actually different about the games, not little details. in LoL the meta is still very strict, and the people that stay in lanes basically ignore the rest of the map, focus intently on last hitting and using their spells to implicitly deny last hits and zone, and then the jungler has a giant responsibility w/r/t macro. each lane is essentially expected to stay aware of the map just so that they don't die, but most people don't do this even at high level play and it is almost impossible to kill someone under their tower without dying until at least level 6-8. (edit: i forgot to mention, after laning phase the game becomes this really boring warding/teamfight baiting game that i can never watch even if my two favorite teams are fighting each other)

From what I can tell about dota, it is a lot harder in general--maybe if you are facing 1 or 2 specific heroes they can just teleport in from off screen and kill you. So in general laning seems a lot more technical and skill/practice-based in dota while in LoL it is much more interesting, whereas the macro is dramatically more interesting than the macro of LoL. This makes dota a way better spectator sport but LoL is more immediate fun.

This came from the post earlier where a guy said that dota is not changing (which i also thought was true) and someone told him that in fact dota is changing faster than LoL. That completely changes my idea of what dota is...i thought LoL was the one where the meta changes every week because of huge buffs/nerfs and new champions like xerath or riven that go beyond what any champion was capable of before them.

If you guys have something to say it would be nice, but i also want to hear from people that like dota/dota 2 more than LoL...i'm just not sure if this would make a good thread or not. it would basically just be a copypaste of this post.

On January 11 2012 09:56 TheYango wrote:

There's also quite a few TLers who post in both forums.

On January 11 2012 09:39 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:

Skarner and Udyr come to mind, especially if they have red buff. Probably Lee Sin or Noc could do it too but might be a bit harder. And if your name is SaintVicious, you can play Annie and Rumble too lol.

Jax remake preview is out btw!

On January 11 2012 09:54 arb wrote:

so did i till you mentioned it, havent seen a xin zhao in forever