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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 20 2011 06:14 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 05:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2011 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2011 05:27 Alzadar wrote:
Why isn't Galio mid a more common strategy? He counters every single one of the common mid laners, and unlike Kassadin he isn't necessarily going to be be countered if they do a change up and he has to lane against a Ranged AD.
Was duoing with my friend with him Galio and me Ryze, the other team had Singed and Leblanc so we did a switcheroo and both of our opponents were under 30 cs at 20 minutes. he's good, but he can't carry as hard as other champs can. his damage drops off unless you go balls to teh wall AP and even then his damage isn't amazing and you get really squishy. galio ult is gamebreaking if landed well, but asides from that it's not as easy to carry with him as say Kassadin or other standard AP carries. He doesn't have to carry hard, he cripples the enemy AP carry to the point where they're almost useless. Have you ever seen a 23 cs Leblanc with 1/2/1 at 25 minutes? Hilariously weak. How about a 2/1/1 Galio with 110 cs at 25 minutes? Not so weak. Obviously a fringe case, I think the enemy LB dealt with it poorly. But Galio seems like a very powerful choice mid. His damage does scale off later in the game, but that's ok because he's incredibly beefy and has a game-winning ultimate. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but a game where you supposedly dominated your lane and end up with 110 CS at 25 minutes is not indicative of the strength/weakness of ANYTHING. How is Galio supposed to stop LeBlanc from CSing? I just don't see it happening.
She can't bully him out of lane very well cuz he benefits from MR and gets tanky. His Q and E push waves really fast, so she is often forced to cs under the tower. Leblanc really needs the early kills for her to matter late game. Galio loves farm fests.
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On December 20 2011 06:14 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 05:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2011 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2011 05:27 Alzadar wrote:
Why isn't Galio mid a more common strategy? He counters every single one of the common mid laners, and unlike Kassadin he isn't necessarily going to be be countered if they do a change up and he has to lane against a Ranged AD.
Was duoing with my friend with him Galio and me Ryze, the other team had Singed and Leblanc so we did a switcheroo and both of our opponents were under 30 cs at 20 minutes. he's good, but he can't carry as hard as other champs can. his damage drops off unless you go balls to teh wall AP and even then his damage isn't amazing and you get really squishy. galio ult is gamebreaking if landed well, but asides from that it's not as easy to carry with him as say Kassadin or other standard AP carries. He doesn't have to carry hard, he cripples the enemy AP carry to the point where they're almost useless. Have you ever seen a 23 cs Leblanc with 1/2/1 at 25 minutes? Hilariously weak. How about a 2/1/1 Galio with 110 cs at 25 minutes? Not so weak. Obviously a fringe case, I think the enemy LB dealt with it poorly. But Galio seems like a very powerful choice mid. His damage does scale off later in the game, but that's ok because he's incredibly beefy and has a game-winning ultimate. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but a game where you supposedly dominated your lane and end up with 110 CS at 25 minutes is not indicative of the strength/weakness of ANYTHING. How is Galio supposed to stop LeBlanc from CSing? I just don't see it happening.
lb cs'ing has never been an issue. in fact, lb's typically have the lowest cs of all casters at the end of the game (as far as i've seen). lb primarily wins by a combination of completely shutting down some lane or person such that they become a nonfactor for the rest of the game, and by getting fed kills off said person, not by getting farmed.
edit: that and lb is shit at cs'ing under tower, which are conditions that any galio will force on her with 0 effort
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On December 20 2011 06:16 tobi9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:14 Shiv. wrote:On December 20 2011 05:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2011 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2011 05:27 Alzadar wrote:
Why isn't Galio mid a more common strategy? He counters every single one of the common mid laners, and unlike Kassadin he isn't necessarily going to be be countered if they do a change up and he has to lane against a Ranged AD.
Was duoing with my friend with him Galio and me Ryze, the other team had Singed and Leblanc so we did a switcheroo and both of our opponents were under 30 cs at 20 minutes. he's good, but he can't carry as hard as other champs can. his damage drops off unless you go balls to teh wall AP and even then his damage isn't amazing and you get really squishy. galio ult is gamebreaking if landed well, but asides from that it's not as easy to carry with him as say Kassadin or other standard AP carries. He doesn't have to carry hard, he cripples the enemy AP carry to the point where they're almost useless. Have you ever seen a 23 cs Leblanc with 1/2/1 at 25 minutes? Hilariously weak. How about a 2/1/1 Galio with 110 cs at 25 minutes? Not so weak. Obviously a fringe case, I think the enemy LB dealt with it poorly. But Galio seems like a very powerful choice mid. His damage does scale off later in the game, but that's ok because he's incredibly beefy and has a game-winning ultimate. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but a game where you supposedly dominated your lane and end up with 110 CS at 25 minutes is not indicative of the strength/weakness of ANYTHING. How is Galio supposed to stop LeBlanc from CSing? I just don't see it happening. People used to think Malzahar, Ashe, Warwick, Galio were OP then they started buying QSS over Banshee Veil 
Wat, doesn't QSS just remove CC at the moment of use? Galio's ulti retaunts for the entire duration so i don't know how would QSS counter it
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On December 20 2011 06:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:14 Shiv. wrote:On December 20 2011 05:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2011 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2011 05:27 Alzadar wrote:
Why isn't Galio mid a more common strategy? He counters every single one of the common mid laners, and unlike Kassadin he isn't necessarily going to be be countered if they do a change up and he has to lane against a Ranged AD.
Was duoing with my friend with him Galio and me Ryze, the other team had Singed and Leblanc so we did a switcheroo and both of our opponents were under 30 cs at 20 minutes. he's good, but he can't carry as hard as other champs can. his damage drops off unless you go balls to teh wall AP and even then his damage isn't amazing and you get really squishy. galio ult is gamebreaking if landed well, but asides from that it's not as easy to carry with him as say Kassadin or other standard AP carries. He doesn't have to carry hard, he cripples the enemy AP carry to the point where they're almost useless. Have you ever seen a 23 cs Leblanc with 1/2/1 at 25 minutes? Hilariously weak. How about a 2/1/1 Galio with 110 cs at 25 minutes? Not so weak. Obviously a fringe case, I think the enemy LB dealt with it poorly. But Galio seems like a very powerful choice mid. His damage does scale off later in the game, but that's ok because he's incredibly beefy and has a game-winning ultimate. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but a game where you supposedly dominated your lane and end up with 110 CS at 25 minutes is not indicative of the strength/weakness of ANYTHING. How is Galio supposed to stop LeBlanc from CSing? I just don't see it happening. She can't bully him out of lane very well cuz he benefits from MR and gets tanky. His Q and E push waves really fast, so she is often forced to cd under the tower. Leblanc really needs the early kills for her to matter late game. Galio loves farm fests.
I'm not saying it's not a MU in Galio's favor, which it obviously is. I'm just saying 23 CS at 25 minutes is not the result of Galio countering a lot of APs mid (which he does in a way) but of a serious case of brain injury. No matter HOW hard you are getting bullied in lane, you PROBABLY should be able to get more than a creep every minute.
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On December 20 2011 06:14 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 05:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2011 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2011 05:27 Alzadar wrote:
Why isn't Galio mid a more common strategy? He counters every single one of the common mid laners, and unlike Kassadin he isn't necessarily going to be be countered if they do a change up and he has to lane against a Ranged AD.
Was duoing with my friend with him Galio and me Ryze, the other team had Singed and Leblanc so we did a switcheroo and both of our opponents were under 30 cs at 20 minutes. he's good, but he can't carry as hard as other champs can. his damage drops off unless you go balls to teh wall AP and even then his damage isn't amazing and you get really squishy. galio ult is gamebreaking if landed well, but asides from that it's not as easy to carry with him as say Kassadin or other standard AP carries. He doesn't have to carry hard, he cripples the enemy AP carry to the point where they're almost useless. Have you ever seen a 23 cs Leblanc with 1/2/1 at 25 minutes? Hilariously weak. How about a 2/1/1 Galio with 110 cs at 25 minutes? Not so weak. Obviously a fringe case, I think the enemy LB dealt with it poorly. But Galio seems like a very powerful choice mid. His damage does scale off later in the game, but that's ok because he's incredibly beefy and has a game-winning ultimate. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but a game where you supposedly dominated your lane and end up with 110 CS at 25 minutes is not indicative of the strength/weakness of ANYTHING. How is Galio supposed to stop LeBlanc from CSing? I just don't see it happening.
I'm kind of making the numbers up, but I think they were somewhere around those lines. There were a lot of teamfights going on botlane and around dragon (Singed and myself excluded), so a lot of the time both mids were away fighting instead of farming. I'm not sure of the exact mechanics of how to play the lane, but Galio can obviously trade favorably any time he wants as well as push harder than Leblanc can.
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110cs is pretty bad @ 25minutes if you dominate lane lol.
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On December 20 2011 06:22 JackDino wrote:
110cs is pretty bad @ 25minutes if you dominate lane lol.
It's good if you can deny cs from their mid, and force their mid to be less than you.
it's not about # of CS, it's about relative CS. I think everyone can agree that a semi farmed galio >>>> non farmed ap mid.
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On December 20 2011 06:21 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:16 tobi9999 wrote:On December 20 2011 06:14 Shiv. wrote:On December 20 2011 05:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2011 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2011 05:27 Alzadar wrote:
Why isn't Galio mid a more common strategy? He counters every single one of the common mid laners, and unlike Kassadin he isn't necessarily going to be be countered if they do a change up and he has to lane against a Ranged AD.
Was duoing with my friend with him Galio and me Ryze, the other team had Singed and Leblanc so we did a switcheroo and both of our opponents were under 30 cs at 20 minutes. he's good, but he can't carry as hard as other champs can. his damage drops off unless you go balls to teh wall AP and even then his damage isn't amazing and you get really squishy. galio ult is gamebreaking if landed well, but asides from that it's not as easy to carry with him as say Kassadin or other standard AP carries. He doesn't have to carry hard, he cripples the enemy AP carry to the point where they're almost useless. Have you ever seen a 23 cs Leblanc with 1/2/1 at 25 minutes? Hilariously weak. How about a 2/1/1 Galio with 110 cs at 25 minutes? Not so weak. Obviously a fringe case, I think the enemy LB dealt with it poorly. But Galio seems like a very powerful choice mid. His damage does scale off later in the game, but that's ok because he's incredibly beefy and has a game-winning ultimate. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but a game where you supposedly dominated your lane and end up with 110 CS at 25 minutes is not indicative of the strength/weakness of ANYTHING. How is Galio supposed to stop LeBlanc from CSing? I just don't see it happening. People used to think Malzahar, Ashe, Warwick, Galio were OP then they started buying QSS over Banshee Veil Wat, doesn't QSS just remove CC at the moment of use? Galio's ulti retaunts for the entire duration so i don't know how would QSS counter it
i'm pretty sure if you qss galio's ulti you will be cleansed for enough duration for you to walk out of it. similar to how if you have mercs you can usually avoid galio ult's damage since the taunt ends early.
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On December 20 2011 06:11 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:07 chalice wrote:
i was always under the impression that 37.5% cdr was what was needed to get off 4 q's with urgot, i think getting 4 with less from items was likely due to extra from runes/masteries that's the cdr needed for exactly 4 cooldowns, which means it's actually the break point for 5 q's, except that no1 can hit 5 q's with only 0.03 seconds of buffer time, which is what 38% would give
Roll cancelling in Capcom vs SNK2 was a tighter window than than hitting 5 q's at 40% cdr. Not to mention you only have to hit 1 button instead of 6-10 buttons. The penalty for missing a q is a lot less than messing up a roll cancel too. If you tried to roll cancel through something but didn't you got punished. If you only get 4 q's instead of 5 its not a big dea.
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On December 20 2011 06:29 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:21 Kaniol wrote:On December 20 2011 06:16 tobi9999 wrote:On December 20 2011 06:14 Shiv. wrote:On December 20 2011 05:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 20 2011 05:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2011 05:27 Alzadar wrote:
Why isn't Galio mid a more common strategy? He counters every single one of the common mid laners, and unlike Kassadin he isn't necessarily going to be be countered if they do a change up and he has to lane against a Ranged AD.
Was duoing with my friend with him Galio and me Ryze, the other team had Singed and Leblanc so we did a switcheroo and both of our opponents were under 30 cs at 20 minutes. he's good, but he can't carry as hard as other champs can. his damage drops off unless you go balls to teh wall AP and even then his damage isn't amazing and you get really squishy. galio ult is gamebreaking if landed well, but asides from that it's not as easy to carry with him as say Kassadin or other standard AP carries. He doesn't have to carry hard, he cripples the enemy AP carry to the point where they're almost useless. Have you ever seen a 23 cs Leblanc with 1/2/1 at 25 minutes? Hilariously weak. How about a 2/1/1 Galio with 110 cs at 25 minutes? Not so weak. Obviously a fringe case, I think the enemy LB dealt with it poorly. But Galio seems like a very powerful choice mid. His damage does scale off later in the game, but that's ok because he's incredibly beefy and has a game-winning ultimate. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but a game where you supposedly dominated your lane and end up with 110 CS at 25 minutes is not indicative of the strength/weakness of ANYTHING. How is Galio supposed to stop LeBlanc from CSing? I just don't see it happening. People used to think Malzahar, Ashe, Warwick, Galio were OP then they started buying QSS over Banshee Veil Wat, doesn't QSS just remove CC at the moment of use? Galio's ulti retaunts for the entire duration so i don't know how would QSS counter it i'm pretty sure if you qss galio's ulti you will be cleansed for enough duration for you to walk out of it. similar to how if you have mercs you can usually avoid galio ult's damage since the taunt ends early.
A good Galio will cancel the ult earlier if important targets have Tenacity (no need if just some MR stacking tank has Mercs). It will still deal full damage most of the time.
I believe that Galio's ult DOES retaunt, but I have no idea how exactly it works. If it's just a periodic taunt every X seconds, then you might sometimes go extremely unlucky with QSS. I also never specifically tested if it retaunts, and it's admittedly hard to tell stuff clearly in the middle of a teamfight, so I might be wrong.
On December 20 2011 06:34 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:11 barbsq wrote:On December 20 2011 06:07 chalice wrote:
i was always under the impression that 37.5% cdr was what was needed to get off 4 q's with urgot, i think getting 4 with less from items was likely due to extra from runes/masteries that's the cdr needed for exactly 4 cooldowns, which means it's actually the break point for 5 q's, except that no1 can hit 5 q's with only 0.03 seconds of buffer time, which is what 38% would give Roll cancelling in Capcom vs SNK2 was a tighter window than than hitting 5 q's at 40% cdr. Not to mention you only have to hit 1 button instead of 6-10 buttons. The penalty for missing a q is a lot less than messing up a roll cancel too. If you tried to roll cancel through something but didn't you got punished. If you only get 4 q's instead of 5 its not a big dea.
I would assume that you don't play that game in a client-server archiecture with the server potentially being hundreds of miles away.
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On December 20 2011 06:34 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:11 barbsq wrote:On December 20 2011 06:07 chalice wrote:
i was always under the impression that 37.5% cdr was what was needed to get off 4 q's with urgot, i think getting 4 with less from items was likely due to extra from runes/masteries that's the cdr needed for exactly 4 cooldowns, which means it's actually the break point for 5 q's, except that no1 can hit 5 q's with only 0.03 seconds of buffer time, which is what 38% would give Roll cancelling in Capcom vs SNK2 was a tighter window than than hitting 5 q's at 40% cdr. Not to mention you only have to hit 1 button instead of 6-10 buttons. The penalty for missing a q is a lot less than messing up a roll cancel too. If you tried to roll cancel through something but didn't you got punished. If you only get 4 q's instead of 5 its not a big dea.
that assumes that league has equally tight animations tho... which i'm not really certain about. *shrug*, i spent quite some time trying to hit 5 shots with 40% cdr (that's the only cdr testing i did with urgot) and couldn't do it, so if some1 else can, then more power to you.
edit: that and, as spines pointed out, lag might be a problem too
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On December 20 2011 06:24 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:22 JackDino wrote:
110cs is pretty bad @ 25minutes if you dominate lane lol. It's good if you can deny cs from their mid, and force their mid to be less than you. it's not about # of CS, it's about relative CS. I think everyone can agree that a semi farmed galio >>>> non farmed ap mid.
If you dominate(this is a pretty strong word) you should both deny the enemy and have high cs.
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about Galio ult,
you can definitely QSS and just walk out of it lol.
It can only taunt a person once, only 99% sure though.
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Yeah its close to impossible unless you've got a sub 30 ping. Which is pretty much impossible.
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On December 20 2011 06:48 Sabin010 wrote:
Yeah its close to impossible unless you've got a sub 30 ping. Which is pretty much impossible.
Not if you play on EU lol, plenty of people on EUW with sub 30 ping. US has quite some low pings aswell, not sure if under 30 but 40 def possible on US.
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Just checked this in a custom game, galio's ulti doesn't retaunt after you use QSS. Weird, i'm pretty sure that it did retaunt me some time ago, maybe i was just imagining things...
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On December 20 2011 06:47 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:24 wei2coolman wrote:On December 20 2011 06:22 JackDino wrote:
110cs is pretty bad @ 25minutes if you dominate lane lol. It's good if you can deny cs from their mid, and force their mid to be less than you. it's not about # of CS, it's about relative CS. I think everyone can agree that a semi farmed galio >>>> non farmed ap mid. If you dominate(this is a pretty strong word) you should both deny the enemy and have high cs.
Shiv and yourself are the only ones that have used the word dominate... Although I'd say having more than four times your opponent's farm is dominating, regardless of how much you would have if you were farming perfectly.
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On December 20 2011 06:59 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 06:47 JackDino wrote:On December 20 2011 06:24 wei2coolman wrote:On December 20 2011 06:22 JackDino wrote:
110cs is pretty bad @ 25minutes if you dominate lane lol. It's good if you can deny cs from their mid, and force their mid to be less than you. it's not about # of CS, it's about relative CS. I think everyone can agree that a semi farmed galio >>>> non farmed ap mid. If you dominate(this is a pretty strong word) you should both deny the enemy and have high cs. Shiv and yourself are the only ones that have used the word dominate... Although I'd say having more than four times your opponent's farm is dominating, regardless of how much you would have if you were farming perfectly.
My bad, happens with responding to someone who quotes something and all that stuff.
The thing is, having only 125cs is gonna be pretty shitty on a tanky champ liek gallio if their top/ad have 200+cs. That said if you only stack MR to counter your lane you won't be that usefull anyways unless you land a good ult. Lebonk still does tons of dmg vs squishies even without items. Depends on wether you prefer a 4v4 or 5v5 I guess.
As for the gallio ult, did you have mercs and were you right in the middle or on the edge when you QSSd?
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United States47024 Posts
On December 20 2011 06:21 Kaniol wrote:
Wat, doesn't QSS just remove CC at the moment of use? Galio's ulti retaunts for the entire duration so i don't know how would QSS counter it
Galio ult doesn't re-taunt. It only does so once at the beginning. Proof point 1: If you walk into his ulti after he starts it, you don't get taunted (though you might still take the damage at the end). Proof point 2: If you have Mercs, you can walk out before its over.
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EPT
