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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On November 22 2011 03:26 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 03:00 Shawngood wrote:Alternate vs. mTw, while heavily one-sided, was a great display of how strong the new team of Wickd is. Other than that the whole series of SK vs. Empire and SK vs. aAa was great to watch. Unfortunately I didn't catch anything of Sypher vs. Empire - gonna look for that now.  Regarding your complaint about the casters: No matter if Rivingten, Preak or Joe I often cringed at some of their analysis this weekend. Especially when they start thinking about comps (to which lane each hero will go and who beats who) it really shows how little they actually know compared to people who watch streams and scrims of proteams a lot. They also seem to lack the knowledge of what champions some of the players are especially good at... Then again they know how to create tension and do great play-by-play commentary which is waaaay more difficult than analyzing picks or the game in general I think. Just wait till they put out a replay system so that I can get some practice commentating. Then just hire me for IEM NPNP. Currently their biggest problem is their lack of knowledge. They dont know what builds are, they dont know players styles, strong champs, or really even what decent teamcomps are atm. Like the biggest example was phreak saying that GP was gonna be a jungle yesterday, when it was pretty well known that jungleplanks sucked with the old masteries. The other thing they do is analyze teamcomps INCREDIBLY poorly. Most of the time anyone with >1500 level knowledge knows what a teamcomp is geared towards, yet for some reason phreak et al are incapable of actually looking at comps, deciphering what they mean, and then putting together the scenario in which each team wins.
Everyone just runs atmogs on all champs that is all you need to know. My favourite was in the season 1 championship when Phreak said that gp had a weak end game.
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Runepages going for 6300 IP is so so gay. :/
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On November 22 2011 02:48 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 01:39 emucxg wrote:
nah... dont want take the risk and waste 900IP =( Wait, you can get a refund of IP purchases if its within 30 days?
Is this true? Cause I just bought Garen and I'm extremely dissapointed. ( For some reason I thought he had a way larger cap on his 'W' which gives him 0.5 armor and MR for every unit killed )
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I was asking because I bought tier 2 runes instead of tier 1 >.<
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KK- Fizz conclusions pt 2:
W does not scale with ap. At all. Ignore the little green numbers next to the damage. It doesnt actually scale with anything. Here is why- the skill does X damage over 5 seconds. However, all it does on subsequent hits is reset the duration. So any ap you stack on the skill is essentially reduced to 1/5- the extra tick that you get for the next hit extending the duration by a second or whatever your aspeed is. Instead, its much better to just go ad- you do more damage by just hitting someone harder than you do getting a bit of extra damage on that last tick of w.
The extension of this is that there is no reason for him to go ap whatsoever. Sure, his ratios are pretty damn good. The problem with ap fizz is he is entirely front loaded. He hits r, q, and e (if you feel comfortable wasting your escape for damage, which I think is a shitty play in most cases). Then he pokes with w. And as I've already said, his w doesnt actually scale with ap. So instead you end up bursting, then not actually having any damage with which to finish anyone off, since your cds are about 6 seconds on q and e.
So if his w doesnt scale, the question becomes how do we MAKE it scale, or at least appear to. I think the answer is ad. Every time you poke someone, you do your normal damage, then the w damage. But if w doesnt scale, the only way to make your attacks hurt more is to increase the damage that you do physically.
And if you look at the rest of his kit, he is BUILT to be a tanky dps who finds a target, gets to them, forces them from the fight, then bounces to another target. q and e give him an extreme amount of fight mobility, and r is essentially a hard snare- the movespeed reduction is so great there is no way for the enemy to run from you. So you just q to them, poke them with your stick and prevent anyone else from healing them or for lifesteal letting them heal themselves.
As for builds- the most effective opener I have found so far is whatever you start with (boots, cloth) and then just getting 2 dblades. They give everything you want in lane, extra damage for w, extra health, some sustain, and are hella cheap to boot. They also have the happy coincidence of being completely lane independent- you can get them mid and not feel stupid vs an ap, and top and not feel stupid vs someone like nasus. From there I think the way to go is wits and then tanky- I know frozen mallet is really good, but I want to give triforce a shot and see if that helps more.
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On November 22 2011 03:47 Mondieu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 02:48 mordek wrote:On November 22 2011 01:39 emucxg wrote:
nah... dont want take the risk and waste 900IP =( Wait, you can get a refund of IP purchases if its within 30 days? Is this true? Cause I just bought Garen and I'm extremely dissapointed. ( For some reason I thought he had a way larger cap on his 'W' which gives him 0.5 armor and MR for every unit killed )
You can actually refund up to 3 items ONE time. I refunded jax that cost 1350 ip and some other rp purchase.
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On November 22 2011 04:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
KK- Fizz conclusions pt 2:
W does not scale with ap. At all. Ignore the little green numbers next to the damage. It doesnt actually scale with anything. Here is why- the skill does X damage over 5 seconds. However, all it does on subsequent hits is reset the duration. So any ap you stack on the skill is essentially reduced to 1/5- the extra tick that you get for the next hit extending the duration by a second or whatever your aspeed is. Instead, its much better to just go ad- you do more damage by just hitting someone harder than you do getting a bit of extra damage on that last tick of w.
The extension of this is that there is no reason for him to go ap whatsoever. Sure, his ratios are pretty damn good. The problem with ap fizz is he is entirely front loaded. He hits r, q, and e (if you feel comfortable wasting your escape for damage, which I think is a shitty play in most cases). Then he pokes with w. And as I've already said, his w doesnt actually scale with ap. So instead you end up bursting, then not actually having any damage with which to finish anyone off, since your cds are about 6 seconds on q and e.
So if his w doesnt scale, the question becomes how do we MAKE it scale, or at least appear to. I think the answer is ad. Every time you poke someone, you do your normal damage, then the w damage. But if w doesnt scale, the only way to make your attacks hurt more is to increase the damage that you do physically.
And if you look at the rest of his kit, he is BUILT to be a tanky dps who finds a target, gets to them, forces them from the fight, then bounces to another target. q and e give him an extreme amount of fight mobility, and r is essentially a hard snare- the movespeed reduction is so great there is no way for the enemy to run from you. So you just q to them, poke them with your stick and prevent anyone else from healing them or for lifesteal letting them heal themselves.
As for builds- the most effective opener I have found so far is whatever you start with (boots, cloth) and then just getting 2 dblades. They give everything you want in lane, extra damage for w, extra health, some sustain, and are hella cheap to boot. They also have the happy coincidence of being completely lane independent- you can get them mid and not feel stupid vs an ap, and top and not feel stupid vs someone like nasus. From there I think the way to go is wits and then tanky- I know frozen mallet is really good, but I want to give triforce a shot and see if that helps more.
W not scaling is wrong. It definitely scales. The passive portion doesn't scale very well, you're right, but you can't ignore the active scaling (0.35) on W. When combined with his Q, it's a total of 1.1 AP scaling for just one combo. Every auto after is 0.35 scaling on top of everything else.
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On November 22 2011 03:41 TheKefka wrote:
Runepages going for 6300 IP is so so gay. :/
Yeah. I think the runes themselves are so expensive and every 2 weeks or 3 they bring another champ out for 6300. So if you werent with the game since the start you have to first spend 20.000 on runes for the 2 pages you get. If you play maybe 2 or 3 games a day (and that is not very likely for every day of the week) you will need months to even get that. Now you can buy champs with real money but runes worth 20.000 still are only enogh for 2 classes at most. So for a solid base in ranked games you probably have to play for at least half a year.
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It is complete bullshit that the bigger the game gets the greedier the company gets. I remember back in the day when they companies actually had to sell good games to make money and put food on the table. Sadly today you can just wrap up any shit and someone will buy it.
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On November 22 2011 04:09 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 04:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
KK- Fizz conclusions pt 2:
W does not scale with ap. At all. Ignore the little green numbers next to the damage. It doesnt actually scale with anything. Here is why- the skill does X damage over 5 seconds. However, all it does on subsequent hits is reset the duration. So any ap you stack on the skill is essentially reduced to 1/5- the extra tick that you get for the next hit extending the duration by a second or whatever your aspeed is. Instead, its much better to just go ad- you do more damage by just hitting someone harder than you do getting a bit of extra damage on that last tick of w.
The extension of this is that there is no reason for him to go ap whatsoever. Sure, his ratios are pretty damn good. The problem with ap fizz is he is entirely front loaded. He hits r, q, and e (if you feel comfortable wasting your escape for damage, which I think is a shitty play in most cases). Then he pokes with w. And as I've already said, his w doesnt actually scale with ap. So instead you end up bursting, then not actually having any damage with which to finish anyone off, since your cds are about 6 seconds on q and e.
So if his w doesnt scale, the question becomes how do we MAKE it scale, or at least appear to. I think the answer is ad. Every time you poke someone, you do your normal damage, then the w damage. But if w doesnt scale, the only way to make your attacks hurt more is to increase the damage that you do physically.
And if you look at the rest of his kit, he is BUILT to be a tanky dps who finds a target, gets to them, forces them from the fight, then bounces to another target. q and e give him an extreme amount of fight mobility, and r is essentially a hard snare- the movespeed reduction is so great there is no way for the enemy to run from you. So you just q to them, poke them with your stick and prevent anyone else from healing them or for lifesteal letting them heal themselves.
As for builds- the most effective opener I have found so far is whatever you start with (boots, cloth) and then just getting 2 dblades. They give everything you want in lane, extra damage for w, extra health, some sustain, and are hella cheap to boot. They also have the happy coincidence of being completely lane independent- you can get them mid and not feel stupid vs an ap, and top and not feel stupid vs someone like nasus. From there I think the way to go is wits and then tanky- I know frozen mallet is really good, but I want to give triforce a shot and see if that helps more. W not scaling is wrong. It definitely scales. The passive portion doesn't scale very well, you're right, but you can't ignore the active scaling (0.35) on W. When combined with his Q, it's a total of 1.1 AP scaling for just one combo. Every auto after is 0.35 scaling on top of everything else.
So at 119 ap, I do the same damage as a wits end on hit effect, but don't get the passive attack speed (leading to more damage) or the passive MR. Alternitvely, I could just leave it at 70 (with no ap) and itemize to stay in a fight and be a fighter. AP is good on him, but only if it gives you some large amount of HP to go with it. That being said Rylai's doesn't work on his W and his ult already has a slow that overlaps the rylai's slow, so you will most likely get more benefit out of building a frozen mallet than rylais.
ROA on the on the other hand is most likely a very good starting item on him. HP and AP for that sweet 1 to 1 ratio on Sharky. Sheen is also more than likely better than building Gunblade or Deathcap simply because your AD through leveling already breaks 90 by level 10 which is some serious burst with Q and W.
Edit: I need an editor for my posts >.>
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On November 22 2011 04:09 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 04:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
KK- Fizz conclusions pt 2:
W does not scale with ap. At all. Ignore the little green numbers next to the damage. It doesnt actually scale with anything. Here is why- the skill does X damage over 5 seconds. However, all it does on subsequent hits is reset the duration. So any ap you stack on the skill is essentially reduced to 1/5- the extra tick that you get for the next hit extending the duration by a second or whatever your aspeed is. Instead, its much better to just go ad- you do more damage by just hitting someone harder than you do getting a bit of extra damage on that last tick of w.
The extension of this is that there is no reason for him to go ap whatsoever. Sure, his ratios are pretty damn good. The problem with ap fizz is he is entirely front loaded. He hits r, q, and e (if you feel comfortable wasting your escape for damage, which I think is a shitty play in most cases). Then he pokes with w. And as I've already said, his w doesnt actually scale with ap. So instead you end up bursting, then not actually having any damage with which to finish anyone off, since your cds are about 6 seconds on q and e.
So if his w doesnt scale, the question becomes how do we MAKE it scale, or at least appear to. I think the answer is ad. Every time you poke someone, you do your normal damage, then the w damage. But if w doesnt scale, the only way to make your attacks hurt more is to increase the damage that you do physically.
And if you look at the rest of his kit, he is BUILT to be a tanky dps who finds a target, gets to them, forces them from the fight, then bounces to another target. q and e give him an extreme amount of fight mobility, and r is essentially a hard snare- the movespeed reduction is so great there is no way for the enemy to run from you. So you just q to them, poke them with your stick and prevent anyone else from healing them or for lifesteal letting them heal themselves.
As for builds- the most effective opener I have found so far is whatever you start with (boots, cloth) and then just getting 2 dblades. They give everything you want in lane, extra damage for w, extra health, some sustain, and are hella cheap to boot. They also have the happy coincidence of being completely lane independent- you can get them mid and not feel stupid vs an ap, and top and not feel stupid vs someone like nasus. From there I think the way to go is wits and then tanky- I know frozen mallet is really good, but I want to give triforce a shot and see if that helps more. W not scaling is wrong. It definitely scales. The passive portion doesn't scale very well, you're right, but you can't ignore the active scaling (0.35) on W. When combined with his Q, it's a total of 1.1 AP scaling for just one combo. Every auto after is 0.35 scaling on top of everything else.
Not to mention that most champs with AP scaling on auto attacks, active ability or no, get 0.2 AP per attack. It's not quite enough to make massing AP worth it if you're autoing a lot (for lots of autos wit's end/tanky deeps still better) but it does mean that AP fizz auto attacks will actually hurt a good deal.
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I thought MoonBear said Blood Lord Vlad was 975? It's 1820 in the store right now.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On November 22 2011 04:38 lynx.oblige wrote:
I thought MoonBear said Blood Lord Vlad was 975? It's 1820 in the store right now.
I was wrong, my apologies. Lord Vladimir has new sound files in addition to the new particles which makes him Legendary. I was only told about the new sounds after I had made that post. Should have double checked with someone if particles were the only new thing he was getting before posting. I'll try and be more careful in the future about skins! ^^
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On November 22 2011 04:38 lynx.oblige wrote:
I thought MoonBear said Blood Lord Vlad was 975? It's 1820 in the store right now.
He made a mistake, said so a few pages back
Edit: Shen'd by the Moonbear himself
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Oh, guess I missed it. No big deal.
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Is there any logic behind Archangel's stacking? I just played a game against an Anivia who went Boots -> 3 Archangel's
It seems to me that after the first Archangel, you could either go Rod of Ages, which would give less AP but much much more durability and utility, or you could get a Deathcap which would give you more AP than a second Archangel. So if you're going for pure damage, Deathcap makes more sense than Archangel, and if you want survivability then Rod will give you decent enough AP as well.
The 3rd AA is even more ridiculous, at that point a Rod of Ages will actually give you MORE ability power than the Archangel, on top of all the other advantages of a Rod.
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On November 22 2011 04:46 Alzadar wrote:
Is there any logic behind Archangel's stacking? I just played a game against an Anivia who went Boots -> 3 Archangel's
It seems to me that after the first Archangel, you could either go Rod of Ages, which would give less AP but much much more durability and utility, or you could get a Deathcap which would give you more AP than a second Archangel. So if you're going for pure damage, Deathcap makes more sense than Archangel, and if you want survivability then Rod will give you decent enough AP as well.
The 3rd AA is even more ridiculous, at that point a Rod of Ages will actually give you MORE ability power than the Archangel, on top of all the other advantages of a Rod.
people think tear stacks and doesn't bother actually checking if it does.
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HOw active is eu west LiquidParty?
I'm thinking of migrating there from N - East
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On November 22 2011 04:22 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 04:09 Ryuu314 wrote:On November 22 2011 04:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
KK- Fizz conclusions pt 2:
W does not scale with ap. At all. Ignore the little green numbers next to the damage. It doesnt actually scale with anything. Here is why- the skill does X damage over 5 seconds. However, all it does on subsequent hits is reset the duration. So any ap you stack on the skill is essentially reduced to 1/5- the extra tick that you get for the next hit extending the duration by a second or whatever your aspeed is. Instead, its much better to just go ad- you do more damage by just hitting someone harder than you do getting a bit of extra damage on that last tick of w.
The extension of this is that there is no reason for him to go ap whatsoever. Sure, his ratios are pretty damn good. The problem with ap fizz is he is entirely front loaded. He hits r, q, and e (if you feel comfortable wasting your escape for damage, which I think is a shitty play in most cases). Then he pokes with w. And as I've already said, his w doesnt actually scale with ap. So instead you end up bursting, then not actually having any damage with which to finish anyone off, since your cds are about 6 seconds on q and e.
So if his w doesnt scale, the question becomes how do we MAKE it scale, or at least appear to. I think the answer is ad. Every time you poke someone, you do your normal damage, then the w damage. But if w doesnt scale, the only way to make your attacks hurt more is to increase the damage that you do physically.
And if you look at the rest of his kit, he is BUILT to be a tanky dps who finds a target, gets to them, forces them from the fight, then bounces to another target. q and e give him an extreme amount of fight mobility, and r is essentially a hard snare- the movespeed reduction is so great there is no way for the enemy to run from you. So you just q to them, poke them with your stick and prevent anyone else from healing them or for lifesteal letting them heal themselves.
As for builds- the most effective opener I have found so far is whatever you start with (boots, cloth) and then just getting 2 dblades. They give everything you want in lane, extra damage for w, extra health, some sustain, and are hella cheap to boot. They also have the happy coincidence of being completely lane independent- you can get them mid and not feel stupid vs an ap, and top and not feel stupid vs someone like nasus. From there I think the way to go is wits and then tanky- I know frozen mallet is really good, but I want to give triforce a shot and see if that helps more. W not scaling is wrong. It definitely scales. The passive portion doesn't scale very well, you're right, but you can't ignore the active scaling (0.35) on W. When combined with his Q, it's a total of 1.1 AP scaling for just one combo. Every auto after is 0.35 scaling on top of everything else. Not to mention that most champs with AP scaling on auto attacks, active ability or no, get 0.2 AP per attack. It's not quite enough to make massing AP worth it if you're autoing a lot (for lots of autos wit's end/tanky deeps still better) but it does mean that AP fizz auto attacks will actually hurt a good deal.
I personally just like AP fizz more than bruiser because with your Q+W+R combo you have a combined 2.1 AP ratio of instant burst, which is higher than pre-nerf sion. Add a lichbane and you got 3.1 AP ratio of more or less frontloaded burst.
Tanky dps fizz is more sustained damage and is much better in some situations, but I just find that it's easier to roll faces with AP fizz than with tanky dps fizz because you snowball so much harder.
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On November 22 2011 04:49 freelander wrote:
HOw active is eu west LiquidParty?
I'm thinking of migrating there from N - East
Don't know,like 35 people online right now.
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EPT
