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On October 27 2011 08:20 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
Elementz has put revive teleport karthus as broken OP tier 1 for solo Q. Haven't had any experiences with it yet so far. Agree or disagree?
Honestly I don't think much about those tier lists. Champs go up and down without actually being changed (Tryndamere) so it's pretty clear Elementz (or any other top tier player doing tier lists) isn't able to predict the full potential of a champion until he gets popular.
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On October 27 2011 08:32 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 08:20 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
Elementz has put revive teleport karthus as broken OP tier 1 for solo Q. Haven't had any experiences with it yet so far. Agree or disagree? Honestly I don't think much about those tier lists. Champs go up and down without actually being changed (Tryndamere) so it's pretty clear Elementz (or any other top tier player doing tier lists) isn't able to predict the full potential of a champion until he gets popular.
It's also just the biased opinion of a single player (or small group of players) creating a list of things they like.
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On October 27 2011 08:32 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 08:20 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
Elementz has put revive teleport karthus as broken OP tier 1 for solo Q. Haven't had any experiences with it yet so far. Agree or disagree? Honestly I don't think much about those tier lists. Champs go up and down without actually being changed (Tryndamere) so it's pretty clear Elementz (or any other top tier player doing tier lists) isn't able to predict the full potential of a champion until he gets popular.
i feel like this is more because of good champions getting nerfed to shit then a weak champion being discovered although it does happen quite a bit
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On October 27 2011 08:45 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 08:32 Shiv. wrote:On October 27 2011 08:20 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
Elementz has put revive teleport karthus as broken OP tier 1 for solo Q. Haven't had any experiences with it yet so far. Agree or disagree? Honestly I don't think much about those tier lists. Champs go up and down without actually being changed (Tryndamere) so it's pretty clear Elementz (or any other top tier player doing tier lists) isn't able to predict the full potential of a champion until he gets popular. i feel like this is more because of good champions getting nerfed to shit then a weak champion being discovered although it does happen quite a bit
Might be a part of it, but take solo top for example. There's sooooo many viable champions right now, there just was no NEED to try out Tryndamere or even consider playing him over at least 10 other champs, according to Elementz' prior tier lists. Now, even though I don't really recall any of the major solo tops being nerfed to death recently, he is Tier 1? What the heck. And don't tell me it's jungle Trynd.
AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON KAT BEING T4 OR I GET REALLY REALLY MAD.
Edit: his introductory reason for Zombie Karthus being OP:
''You die... And you are still alive. Then you revive, die again... and you are still alive. You have 2 proccs of your passive!''
Oh really.
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Tier lists are kind of silly for a game that receives as many updates as LoL does.
Also,
+ Show Spoiler +Xpecial on WCG: "There is no scheduled time on the game, if it will be played at all. Also, Nobody deserves to receive death threats, so just stop it. Thanks, Xpecial" We need our drama thread back. Too scared of getting banned if I remake though.
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Maybe I'll make a proper drama thread later. Idk if I feel like dredging up all the older stuff.
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On October 27 2011 08:56 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 08:45 Frolossus wrote:On October 27 2011 08:32 Shiv. wrote:On October 27 2011 08:20 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
Elementz has put revive teleport karthus as broken OP tier 1 for solo Q. Haven't had any experiences with it yet so far. Agree or disagree? Honestly I don't think much about those tier lists. Champs go up and down without actually being changed (Tryndamere) so it's pretty clear Elementz (or any other top tier player doing tier lists) isn't able to predict the full potential of a champion until he gets popular. i feel like this is more because of good champions getting nerfed to shit then a weak champion being discovered although it does happen quite a bit Might be a part of it, but take solo top for example. There's sooooo many viable champions right now, there just was no NEED to try out Tryndamere or even consider playing him over at least 10 other champs, according to Elementz' prior tier lists. Now, even though I don't really recall any of the major solo tops being nerfed to death recently, he is Tier 1? What the heck. And don't tell me it's jungle Trynd. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON KAT BEING T4 OR I GET REALLY REALLY MAD. Edit: his introductory reason for Zombie Karthus being OP: ''You die... And you are still alive. Then you revive, die again... and you are still alive. You have 2 proccs of your passive!'' Oh really.
I agree that tier lists are meaningless, but didn't tryndamere get a huge change? IIRC, the last solo queue tier list was like 2 months ago, and thats around when he got changed.
Also, though he explained zombie karthus badly, I agree that zombie karthus is really strong in solo queue from playing him for a week or so. (Oh I can't land any of my qs, and I fed mid 0-10. Except I still win anyways because karthus does so much damage and revive guarantees 9 seconds of damage outside of your ult, which wins teamfights easily unless you're ridiculously far behind.)
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On October 27 2011 09:10 Nehsb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 08:56 Shiv. wrote:On October 27 2011 08:45 Frolossus wrote:On October 27 2011 08:32 Shiv. wrote:On October 27 2011 08:20 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
Elementz has put revive teleport karthus as broken OP tier 1 for solo Q. Haven't had any experiences with it yet so far. Agree or disagree? Honestly I don't think much about those tier lists. Champs go up and down without actually being changed (Tryndamere) so it's pretty clear Elementz (or any other top tier player doing tier lists) isn't able to predict the full potential of a champion until he gets popular. i feel like this is more because of good champions getting nerfed to shit then a weak champion being discovered although it does happen quite a bit Might be a part of it, but take solo top for example. There's sooooo many viable champions right now, there just was no NEED to try out Tryndamere or even consider playing him over at least 10 other champs, according to Elementz' prior tier lists. Now, even though I don't really recall any of the major solo tops being nerfed to death recently, he is Tier 1? What the heck. And don't tell me it's jungle Trynd. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON KAT BEING T4 OR I GET REALLY REALLY MAD. Edit: his introductory reason for Zombie Karthus being OP: ''You die... And you are still alive. Then you revive, die again... and you are still alive. You have 2 proccs of your passive!'' Oh really. I agree that tier lists are meaningless, but didn't tryndamere get a huge change? IIRC, the last solo queue tier list was like 2 months ago, and thats around when he got changed. Also, though he explained zombie karthus badly, I agree that zombie karthus is really strong in solo queue from playing him for a week or so. (Oh I can't land any of my qs, and I fed mid 0-10. Except I still win anyways because karthus does so much damage and revive guarantees 9 seconds of damage outside of your ult, which wins teamfights easily unless you're ridiculously far behind.)
IIRC last Tier list was Riven. Tryndamere got buffed with the friggin SKARNER patch.
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I don't know if I posted it on TL but I definitely said that Tryndamere was stupid strong after his change awhile back. You get vamp scepter and max heal, always farm never die.
I'm sure there are better builds people can do, I just remember right after the change laning against this same Trynd who did that both games and I literally couldn't bully him out of lane at all, he just shrugs off damage so well and farms all he wants.
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So, im sitting in a ranked queue and there are 2 people disconnected, one on each team. I get to waste time until the game finally realizes "oh these fucking people aren't here, lets put everyone else back in queue." Is Riot ever going to do something about this?
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On October 27 2011 09:20 overt wrote:
I don't know if I posted it on TL but I definitely said that Tryndamere was stupid strong after his change awhile back. You get vamp scepter and max heal, always farm never die.
I'm sure there are better builds people can do, I just remember right after the change laning against this same Trynd who did that both games and I literally couldn't bully him out of lane at all, he just shrugs off damage so well and farms all he wants.
While this is 100% true, the real point is: it took Elementz 4 patches to put him Tier 1. Pretty much the same with WuKong, who hasn't really been changed besides his Q hotfix IIRC, and all of a sudden he's T2?
All this Tier list does is observing current trends of the solo Q meta.
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On October 27 2011 09:36 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 09:20 overt wrote:
I don't know if I posted it on TL but I definitely said that Tryndamere was stupid strong after his change awhile back. You get vamp scepter and max heal, always farm never die.
I'm sure there are better builds people can do, I just remember right after the change laning against this same Trynd who did that both games and I literally couldn't bully him out of lane at all, he just shrugs off damage so well and farms all he wants. While this is 100% true, the real point is: it took Elementz 4 patches to put him Tier 1. Pretty much the same with WuKong, who hasn't really been changed besides his Q hotfix IIRC, and all of a sudden he's T2? All this Tier list does is observing current trends of the solo Q meta.
isnt that kinda the whole point of the tier list? to observe what's popular at the moment?
edit: i dont have a problem with the list itself, and i think what elementz is doing is just fine, i just hate when ppl use it as gospel
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United States37500 Posts
Ragging on Elementz is dumb. Use it as a reference, nothing more.
Want to know what's flavor of the month and popular? Take a gander.
It's also somewhat reflective of the current tournament scene tbh. But like barbsq said, don't treat it like gospel.
If anything, be moar like bosses scarra and Voyboy. Play what you like. Make those champions work. Start your own fotm. zz
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On October 27 2011 09:46 Two_DoWn wrote:
Like my new Swain FOTM.
Swain is legit. He's only tier 3 on Elementz list but he's tier 1 on mine. Seriously, I feel like he does just as much, maybe more, damage as Ryze and he feels just as tanky.
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On October 27 2011 09:49 overt wrote:Swain is legit. He's only tier 3 on Elementz list but he's tier 1 on mine. Seriously, I feel like he does just as much, maybe more, damage as Ryze and he feels just as tanky.
rainbow thugs #1 swain ololollololololol
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On October 27 2011 09:49 overt wrote:Swain is legit. He's only tier 3 on Elementz list but he's tier 1 on mine. Seriously, I feel like he does just as much, maybe more, damage as Ryze and he feels just as tanky.
He's an asshole to lane against. Oh i am just going to ult and lol at you trying to do damage
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On October 27 2011 09:44 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ragging on Elementz is dumb. Use it as a reference, nothing more.
Want to know what's flavor of the month and popular? Take a gander.
It's also somewhat reflective of the current tournament scene tbh. But like barbsq said, don't treat it like gospel.
If anything, be moar like bosses scarra and Voyboy. Play what you like. Make those champions work. Start your own fotm. zz
Sorry if I came across raging, that was honestly not my intention. I'm just so fed up of people quedoding me in normals when I play Katarina or Shaco. Well, Shaco appears to be perfectly fine again, but all the rage about Kat... I don't know. I just think it's insanely useless. If you want to gain Elo, it's probably not going to help if you start playing Revive Teleport Karthus all of a sudden. Play what you're good at and people who are good enough to care about what AP carry fits the teamcomp instead of just playing what they're used to don't need a tier list anyhow. Also, how am I supposed to use it as a orientation on what to use if it obviously isn't accurate, seeing how Trynd was shit tier for ages and then all of a sudden BOOM SUP I'M GOD NOW without even getting changed at all. To be fair, he always says all heroes are viable in the right hands, but then again: what's the whole point of the list?
I don't know, maybe I'm too tired 'cause it's 3 AM, but I really don't get it.
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On October 27 2011 10:01 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 09:44 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ragging on Elementz is dumb. Use it as a reference, nothing more.
Want to know what's flavor of the month and popular? Take a gander.
It's also somewhat reflective of the current tournament scene tbh. But like barbsq said, don't treat it like gospel.
If anything, be moar like bosses scarra and Voyboy. Play what you like. Make those champions work. Start your own fotm. zz Sorry if I came across raging, that was honestly not my intention. I'm just so fed up of people quedoding me in normals when I play Katarina or Shaco. Well, Shaco appears to be perfectly fine again, but all the rage about Kat... I don't know. I just think it's insanely useless. If you want to gain Elo, it's probably not going to help if you start playing Revive Teleport Karthus all of a sudden. Play what you're good at and people who are good enough to care about what AP carry fits the teamcomp instead of just playing what they're used to don't need a tier list anyhow. Also, how am I supposed to use it as a orientation on what to use if it obviously isn't accurate, seeing how Trynd was shit tier for ages and then all of a sudden BOOM SUP I'M GOD NOW without even getting changed at all. To be fair, he always says all heroes are viable in the right hands, but then again: what's the whole point of the list? I don't know, maybe I'm too tired 'cause it's 3 AM, but I really don't get it.
Kat is arguably much worse than Shaco...at least Shaco can find a place on a team even at high elo. Kat gets immediately shut down so long as the enemy team has even one cc (and if they're not complete idiots). Obviously it is possible to do well with her, but I imagine it is a great deal more difficult to do when her mere appearance in a teamfight causes every Taric/Sion/alistar to immediately jump on her ass. She is undoubtedly a pubstomper like Shaco is, but I would argue she stops stomping pubs much earlier than he does.
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United States37500 Posts
On October 27 2011 10:01 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 09:44 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ragging on Elementz is dumb. Use it as a reference, nothing more.
Want to know what's flavor of the month and popular? Take a gander.
It's also somewhat reflective of the current tournament scene tbh. But like barbsq said, don't treat it like gospel.
If anything, be moar like bosses scarra and Voyboy. Play what you like. Make those champions work. Start your own fotm. zz Sorry if I came across raging, that was honestly not my intention. I'm just so fed up of people quedoding me in normals when I play Katarina or Shaco. Well, Shaco appears to be perfectly fine again, but all the rage about Kat... I don't know. I just think it's insanely useless. If you want to gain Elo, it's probably not going to help if you start playing Revive Teleport Karthus all of a sudden. Play what you're good at and people who are good enough to care about what AP carry fits the teamcomp instead of just playing what they're used to don't need a tier list anyhow. Also, how am I supposed to use it as a orientation on what to use if it obviously isn't accurate, seeing how Trynd was shit tier for ages and then all of a sudden BOOM SUP I'M GOD NOW without even getting changed at all. To be fair, he always says all heroes are viable in the right hands, but then again: what's the whole point of the list? I don't know, maybe I'm too tired 'cause it's 3 AM, but I really don't get it.
I tend to wait 20 min for normal game queues with my fun police friends. :< How bad could a q dodge(s) be?
I get what you're saying. But even without Elementz's tier list, people would still follow what's popular from what they see in tournaments and streams. Remember Sion? And how he raped fk faces at solo top 4-5 months ago? Oh hay, slap on Boots of Mobility and we have a new fotm Sion at solo mid.
I just feel like too many people try to scapegoat Ele for the uncreative general public. Most gamers are flat out uncreative, period. Care to look at the SC2 ladder after every MLG?
w/e...
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EPT
