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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:31 TheYango wrote: Two weeks? More like two months. Talon patch came out August 24. IEM NY happened the weekend of October 13. oh for some reason i was thinking ghuanzhou, but the point still stands that people have figured him out and are beginning to counter him rather than ban, but alot of top teams still ban him vs certain teams like dignitas | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
If it were so easy to counter him he wouldn't be a top ban. He's not getting last picked in games where he is left unbanned either(a sign that he's a counterpickable/counterpick champ), he's autolock first pick status. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:32 taLbuk wrote: but the point still stands that people have figured him out and are beginning to counter him rather than ban, but alot of top teams still ban him vs certain teams like dignitas How does that point still stand? When was that point ever made for it to be standing somehow? Nobody is fucking counterpicking him. The only play we've seen since IEM NY is the WCG shit, and he's still a ban/first pick champion. What the fuck is wrong with you people. | ||
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Lancer723
United States486 Posts
Whether he's OP or not is a matter of opinion, but banning him makes perfect sense in the context of the matchup problems he creates. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
It's rare that "lots of instant AoE damage" is undesirable. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
If you can't stop Talon from last hitting with W, what's to stop him from ganking your allies that don't have a Chain Vest as soon as he hits 6? | ||
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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:40 red_ wrote: How does that point still stand? When was that point ever made for it to be standing somehow? Nobody is fucking counterpicking him. The only play we've seen since IEM NY is the WCG shit, and he's still a ban/first pick champion. What the fuck is wrong with you people. can you type without sounding like a complete hothead? "the point" was referring to my reply to theyango yes talon is good, and especially ban worthy vs teams who have masters of him like dignitas (like i said), but there are decent counters out there which players have shown to be effective | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:43 NeoIllusions wrote: What bothers me the most is this "Buy Chain Vest, win lane" idea as a counter to Talon. Yes, you won't die to Talon in your own lane but what's to stop him from farming? Rake make farming so incredibly easy for Talon unless you're a Garen who can Flash Silence, for example. If you can't stop Talon from last hitting with W, what's to stop him from ganking your allies that don't have a Chain Vest as soon as he hits 6? It's pretty dumb anyways just because you have a Chain vest doesn't mean 100% guaranteed he won't kill you again. While you just spent 700g on an armor item that doesn't necessarily fit with your champ he just spent 1000g on an item to rape you and your buddies harder | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:43 NeoIllusions wrote: What bothers me the most is this "Buy Chain Vest, win lane" idea as a counter to Talon. Yes, you won't die to Talon in your own lane but what's to stop him from farming? Rake make farming so incredibly easy for Talon unless you're a Garen who can Flash Silence, for example. If you can't stop Talon from last hitting with W, what's to stop him from ganking your allies that don't have a Chain Vest as soon as he hits 6? That's because a lot of time people use the argument "don't let them get kills early and they're worthless". | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:28 gtrsrs wrote: so i think wit's end needs a slight nerf i buy it on every champion i jungle with and i think it's retardedly strong makes tanky dps tankier and do more dps for essentially no cost recurve = 1050 (+40% AS) null = 400 (+24 MR) recipe = 550 (+6 MR, +42 magic damage on hit, +20 MR after 4 hits) even with 0 stacks i feel like the damage is well worth the combine cost, but with full stacks this item is stupidly efficient. 50 MR and 40% as with a BF sword included? O_o Yeah, it's pretty nasty right now. I've been thinking about this item a lot and how it fits a lot of champions who were already retartedly strong without it. It's preeeetty mean. I've been wondering how good it is on Shaco. Currently, I'm running Zerker Greaves, Lantern, Triforce on him, according to a recent guide on solomid, but in theory, the on-hit should be HOLYMOLYNASTY with his Ult and the attackspeed should free up the boots slot for Mercs (srs) or Mobility Boots (trololo) | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:43 NeoIllusions wrote: What bothers me the most is this "Buy Chain Vest, win lane" idea as a counter to Talon. Yes, you won't die to Talon in your own lane but what's to stop him from farming? Rake make farming so incredibly easy for Talon unless you're a Garen who can Flash Silence, for example. If you can't stop Talon from last hitting with W, what's to stop him from ganking your allies that don't have a Chain Vest as soon as he hits 6? Talon has zero sustain in his kit, low hp and mediocre resistances. If he cannot trade positively, he cannot stay in the lane. His only method of trading besides ewq is to throw w and hope you get hit, which will only be the case if you over extend. So? You push him out of the lane like anybody else that's melee and can't make proper trades, by pushing into creeps and forcing him to rake you instead of to rice. The alternative is just to smash the lane into his tower if you're running a hero that can obliterate a lane because it leaves you very open to go gank other lanes/take drag/push the tower. If he's forced to rake and hit the ranged creeps, he loses all of them to the tower. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:52 NeoIllusions wrote: People need to learn that "kills != farm" and "solid farm > kills" then. :< xcept that most ppl have no idea how to farm and the majority of their gold income comes from kills, thus does the misconception occur i've always used 2 terms for how stacked a champ is, fed = lots of gold from champ kills, farmed = lots of gold from cs/objectives | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:31 spinesheath wrote: Yes, Wit's End is extremely good. I thought everyone knew that at least for 2 months now. You also have to consider that it is a midrange dead end item so it's ok if it's more efficient than base items or big items. It's just a bit too much though, especially with magic damage being the biggest threat during midgame these days. The thing is, you build Wit's End on tanky dps champs that rely on AS, whose builds are typically (Wriggles), Merc Threads, Wit's End, (Aegis), major defensive item or two, Triforce. On these guys, the Wit's End + Triforce combo is absolutely insane, and outside of the occasional Wit's End+Atmog build will not go for another damage item. The one replacement for Wit's End is Bloodrazor, and that's a situational item that you would build as your 7th item anyway. The only other time I can see Wit's End getting outdated is if you have Boots, Wit's End, Triforce, Randuin/FH/GA, and need a slot to finish your Warmog+Atma+FoN combo 60 minutes into the game, or if you ever want to get a Bloodthirst. You almost never build Wit's End on carries anyway, so it being obsolete on those champs is moot. It's a niche item but an incredibly good one at that. Imagine phoenix Udyr or WW without it. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:46 taLbuk wrote: can you type without sounding like a complete hothead? "the point" was referring to my reply to theyango yes talon is good, and especially ban worthy vs teams who have masters of him like dignitas (like i said), but there are decent counters out there which players have shown to be effective I'm glad that I sounded hot headed with the above post, because I am indeed pretty floored at the idea of people as retarded as you existing. Once again you have circled the logic tree to come back to 'he can be countered' and yet, there he is, being banned or winning in every game of a major professional tourney. You keep throwing it out there that 'he can be countered' as if that statement alone proves itself. We have offered the statistical evidence and the authoritative opinions of the professional LoL community, you have offered us 'he can be countered because he can be countered because cloth armor chain mail."(Paraphrasing, in case you missed it). For reference, the tone of this post is "confused" as in, how is it possible to keep making a point of not making a point. User was warned for this post | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:00 L wrote: Talon has zero sustain in his kit, low hp and mediocre resistances. If he cannot trade positively, he cannot stay in the lane. His only method of trading besides ewq is to throw w and hope you get hit, which will only be the case if you over extend. So? You push him out of the lane like anybody else that's melee and can't make proper trades, by pushing into creeps and forcing him to rake you instead of to rice. The alternative is just to smash the lane into his tower if you're running a hero that can obliterate a lane because it leaves you very open to go gank other lanes/take drag/push the tower. If he's forced to rake and hit the ranged creeps, he loses all of them to the tower. Talon clears lanes with rake pretty fast. To a point where there aren't many APs who can clear the lane quickly enough to where he loses out on a ton of CS. And just like Orianna once he gets a few levels he has this cute little zone where if you go into it he will jump on you and do a bajillion damage to you while you're silenced. I mean, sure, if you pick like Morgana or Malzahar you can just outpush him and don't even have to really bother with buying a bunch of armor but for every other AP carry he's a nightmare to lane against. | ||
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