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Ori is a good example of a champ that was just broken. I honestly dont think talon is straight up broken on the scale of Ori.
Just wanted to say that since I was mentioning Ori I don't think Talon is as good as old Orianna was. But the lane itself plays very similar in the sense that there's this 700 range that Talon has where if you go inside of it he does a ton of damage and if he's good will take very little damage for it. Just like Orianna had that 800-900 range where she could do free damage to you at no real cost other than mana. He needs a nerf but I agree with you that he isn't super op broken.
I don't think Talon is OP. I just think he's really good in lane against a lot of AP carries. I fully welcome someone to take up the Brees challenge though, I've only played Talon during free week and want to be proven wrong.
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On October 27 2011 04:27 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 04:24 Juicyfruit wrote:
Can someone just accept Brees' 1v1 challenge so we can be done with it? Someone stream if it's going down.
Get Voyboy or Scarra on Talon!
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On October 27 2011 04:28 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 04:24 Juicyfruit wrote:
Can someone just accept Brees' 1v1 challenge so we can be done with it? Honestly though, a 1v1 with Brees going in knowing Talon will be the other person isn't a good metric. Saying "I can 1v1 knowing that I'll have the counter" is silly. I'll 1v1 anyone at or around my level if I knew what they were going to be playing. "Oh, 1v1 your Akali? K, gonna pick Galio, gg no re".
He said he'd play an common AP carry mid after challenging them for a solo top battle, IIRC. Go ban Ryze and go to town on each other or something!
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On October 27 2011 04:32 Craton wrote:
What always floors me is how people want to come into an argument with a position that goes against the opinions of the majority (of both pros and amateurs) and think that by saying their opinion that it's somehow true. Then, they proceed to say "you haven't proven it wrong" as if the onus of proof wasn't on the person challenging the accepted position.
Consider someone coming in here and said Eve was the most overpowered champ in the game and that they're right because you haven't proven them wrong. That's exactly what you're doing now.
What floors me is that there isn't a majority thinking this shit is broken. There's two people crying heavily about it. Plenty of people think he's very strong but not broken. I've seen games in which he's downright hobbled. There's a very reliable cast of people who lane mid and who crush him. And when I say crush, I mean CRUSH.
Talon goes big or goes home. Period.
The IEM pick/ban list shows that he wasn't banned or taken in a huge swath of games and that's because Talon is generally used as a counterpick to a few mids that are currently popular. Urgot, interestingly enough, was banned MORE than talon and also has a 100% winrate. Why the fuck aren't we crying about him? Well, the obvious answer is that urgot's ability to crush a lane is very dependent on who he's up against, hence why he ended up being picked infrequently. Kassadin, similarly has identical stats to talon besides being picked in an additional game (and having lost it). Kass is a very, very niche pick because of how fickle his laning is. See a pattern here?
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On October 27 2011 04:44 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 04:27 JackDino wrote:On October 27 2011 04:24 Juicyfruit wrote:
Can someone just accept Brees' 1v1 challenge so we can be done with it? Someone stream if it's going down. Get Voyboy or Scarra on Talon!
They're too busy dodging all the forum rage atm.
Speaking of which, anyone know when the rest of WCG USA finals will be played?
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Tonight last I heard.
Also, did anyone else get 5000 IP for seemingly no reason whatsoever?
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On October 27 2011 04:35 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 04:32 Craton wrote:
What always floors me is how people want to come into an argument with a position that goes against the opinions of the majority (of both pros and amateurs) and think that by saying their opinion that it's somehow true. Then, they proceed to say "you haven't proven it wrong" as if the onus of proof wasn't on the person challenging the accepted position.
Consider someone coming in here and said Eve was the most overpowered champ in the game and that they're right because you haven't proven them wrong. That's exactly what you're doing now. So go ahead and prove him wrong by playing Talon vs him. I have zero degree of care whether Talon is OP or useless, but one side is willing to walk the walk.
"Prove"
NOTHING
I repeat
NOTHING
is proven by 1v1ing him.
It's sad just how much he has derailed and devalued this discussion by his childlike challenge of "1v1 me."
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On October 27 2011 04:47 L wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 04:32 Craton wrote:
What always floors me is how people want to come into an argument with a position that goes against the opinions of the majority (of both pros and amateurs) and think that by saying their opinion that it's somehow true. Then, they proceed to say "you haven't proven it wrong" as if the onus of proof wasn't on the person challenging the accepted position.
Consider someone coming in here and said Eve was the most overpowered champ in the game and that they're right because you haven't proven them wrong. That's exactly what you're doing now. What floors me is that there isn't a majority thinking this shit is broken. There's two people crying heavily about it. Plenty of people think he's very strong but not broken. I've seen games in which he's downright hobbled. There's a very reliable cast of people who lane mid and who crush him. And when I say crush, I mean CRUSH. Talon goes big or goes home. Period. The IEM pick/ban list shows that he wasn't banned or taken in a huge swath of games and that's because Talon is generally used as a counterpick to a few mids that are currently popular. Urgot, interestingly enough, was banned MORE than talon and also has a 100% winrate. Why the fuck aren't we crying about him? Well, the obvious answer is that urgot's ability to crush a lane is very dependent on who he's up against, hence why he ended up being picked infrequently. Kassadin, similarly has identical stats to talon besides being picked in an additional game (and having lost it). Kass is a very, very niche pick because of how fickle his laning is. See a pattern here?
The conversation started with the quote "talon is one of the worst characters in the game no joke." That doesn't say 'Talon isn't OP, just fairly strong.' Thus, the argument has gone the way it has. If someone had started off saying 'Talon isn't batshit crazy must ban OP' I'd have left it alone because he isn't, he is just REALLY FUCKING GOOD, which is probably the level I'd like about 60 other champions that aren't there to be at.
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some things I'd consider:
- it's not go big or go home. He can still farm in lane like a baws and then go to town on some other fools.
- Bans in high level play are often straightly aimed towards a certain person. HSNIDALEEGG, Jatt's Udyr, Voy's Akali, Iounet's Urgot.
- How is a 1v1 going to determine Talon's value in an actual game? You'd see how good or bad of a laner he is. Great. It does not matter if he loses his lane to, say, a Cassiopeia by 2 kills and 30 CS if he, once teamfights erupts, instagibs her and then proceeds to trollface.jpg the rest of the team. LoL is WAY too dynamic for 1v1s to be of any worth beyond 'lulz, I owned your ass fool''
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1v1 proves everything when it comes to a 5v5 game amirite guys.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
alright ill get my team and you can get your team and we can play 5v5 then.
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On October 27 2011 05:00 Brees wrote:
alright ill get my team and you can get your team and we can play 5v5 then.
Hey wait people have already done that, and Talon is pretty decisively not "one of the worst characters in the game no joke."
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On October 27 2011 04:54 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 04:35 Juicyfruit wrote:On October 27 2011 04:32 Craton wrote:
What always floors me is how people want to come into an argument with a position that goes against the opinions of the majority (of both pros and amateurs) and think that by saying their opinion that it's somehow true. Then, they proceed to say "you haven't proven it wrong" as if the onus of proof wasn't on the person challenging the accepted position.
Consider someone coming in here and said Eve was the most overpowered champ in the game and that they're right because you haven't proven them wrong. That's exactly what you're doing now. So go ahead and prove him wrong by playing Talon vs him. I have zero degree of care whether Talon is OP or useless, but one side is willing to walk the walk. "Prove" NOTHINGI repeat NOTHINGis proven by 1v1ing him. It's sad just how much he has derailed and devalued this discussion by his childlike challenge of "1v1 me."
A) It's not childish. Are you fucking serious? It's testing out a lane matchup. What I think is childish is your continued insinuation that the whole concept is beneath you and that Brees being willing to show how his ideas work in game is like a toddler throwing toys.
B) If you or somebody else rolls him the rest of us can see that Brees is an idiot and talking out of his ass. He can absolutely be proven wrong.
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What all can we test out with this playtest? So far I've got:
Talon vs. generic AP mid who wins? idk let's find out!
WW is best jungler, let's test it.
Karma is useful.
What other two champions can we test out with this battle royale?
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why is everyone raging at jatt exactly?
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A) It's not childish
Yes it is. The idea that you can definitively disprove what the majority of the community thinks (at all skill levels) by a random 1v1 match is completely insulting.
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On October 27 2011 05:05 Frolossus wrote:
why is everyone raging at jatt exactly?
WCG USA Qualifiers drama.
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tl;dr is WCG rewrote the rules twice to give Jatt more chances to qualify
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On October 27 2011 04:56 Shiv. wrote:
some things I'd consider:
- it's not go big or go home. He can still farm in lane like a baws and then go to town on some other fools.
- Bans in high level play are often straightly aimed towards a certain person. HSNIDALEEGG, Jatt's Udyr, Voy's Akali, Iounet's Urgot.
- How is a 1v1 going to determine Talon's value in an actual game? You'd see how good or bad of a laner he is. Great. It does not matter if he loses his lane to, say, a Cassiopeia by 2 kills and 30 CS if he, once teamfights erupts, instagibs her and then proceeds to trollface.jpg the rest of the team. LoL is WAY too dynamic for 1v1s to be of any worth beyond 'lulz, I owned your ass fool''
Talon does not farm in the lane if he cannot trade. Period.
You do not rake lanes and magically farm like a boss when you're melee and your opponent can crush you out of the lane.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On October 27 2011 05:04 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 05:00 Brees wrote:
alright ill get my team and you can get your team and we can play 5v5 then. Hey wait people have already done that, and Talon is pretty decisively not "one of the worst characters in the game no joke."
nut up or shut up brah
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EPT
