EPTNothing is really "TROOOOLL" in LoL. If you can make it work on a high level it's viable but usually it's extremely situational.
Like in SC2 there are no real troll builds, there's just gimmicky situational and funny things.
[D] BlitzStar (Double CC) Jungle - Page 3
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ptrpb
Canada753 Posts
Nothing is really "TROOOOLL" in LoL. If you can make it work on a high level it's viable but usually it's extremely situational. Like in SC2 there are no real troll builds, there's just gimmicky situational and funny things. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
Urgot with another aggressive support probably does but no one runs him. thats the funny thing bout eu/us  In EU some ppl actually BAN urgot because they hate him, we have some dedicated urgot players: Lounet, yellowpete and again why would you NOT push, if you have decent ward control there is no problem with pushing the other guy into the tower | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On October 19 2011 03:57 Juicyfruit wrote: I don't even think too much of the bot lane issue, since I do think there are champions that can survive that lane 1v2....but what exactly are you going to do with 2 really underfarmed/underleveled junglers if your ganks don't work, l0l The threat of ganks (due to the ability to protect an early Oracle) and the damage dealt by ganks (unless your lane is savagely losing) leads to the two solo lanes consistently being ahead. This combined with a fantastically fucked enemy jungler means you're essentially 3/4ing your two junglers and 1/2ing your bot solo for two 3/4'd enemy solos and a demolished enemy jungler along with complete map control. This would be the "worst-case scenario" if played perfectly. The "best-case scenario" thus becomes two royally fucked solos (and two royally fed solos on double team) along with two decently fed/farmed junglers against a royally fucked jungler, with a staying-alive bot lane and a "got ganked and set behind too often" bot lane. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
At level 2 something pops out of the bush and whacks Garen, leaving him at 1/4 hp. He can either back, or stay. Regardless his early-game presence has been SHAFTED, which is huge considering a lot of people in this subforum believe Garen fucks Irelia up. At level 4-5 something pops out again and either kills him or drops him back to ridiculously low levels. Boom, Garen has now lost his lane. Well, maybe he can get a countergank to h- oh right, his jungler has jackall for farm and levels either. So he's now been removed from the game while Irelia has free-farm. You can say the same for mid. What's a good matchup. How about Cass vs Twitch, a matchup that she should win 20 times out of 20. But at level 2 she gets ganked by one person, forcing a flash, the next level another gank comes, this time from the other ganker, forcing her HP down, the next level the other ganker comes in. Every level she gets ganked one after another. Regardless of the success of these ganks, she cannot play comfortably, and can even fall behind in farm, while the laner who shoulda been crushed gets to farm relatively comfortable. etc. etc. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On October 19 2011 03:51 Ente wrote: thats the funny thing bout eu/us In EU some ppl actually BAN urgot because they hate him, we have some dedicated urgot players: Lounet, yellowpete and again why would you NOT push, if you have decent ward control there is no problem with pushing the other guy into the tower If you 2v1 then you actually don't want the bot tower to fall too quickly otherwise the solo can actually farm. Also early on the only way a 1v2 solo can farm is if creeps are pushed to his tower. The tradeoff is you're almost guaranteed to get all early dragons but from that you would have to push aggressively to capitalize on your advantage which is again more difficult than it seems. Urgot is actually something of a direct counter to Cait and many other AD lanes but only with a non soraka support. EU is way ahead in botlane meta for both AD and support matchups. NA teams still don't ward and counterward the bot bushes aggressively enough. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On October 19 2011 04:10 Southlight wrote: For instance you have an Irelia vs Garen lane. At level 2 something pops out of the bush and whacks Garen, leaving him at 1/4 hp. . But all those ganks in your scenario worked and did huge amount of damage to boot :X Conversely, I can said I choose Kennen mid vs double jungle and then amuse myself by the fact that none of the ganks are ever going to work with like 1 ward. This is not really a discussion or anything, I just think the major risk isn't really bot lane being screwed 1v2 so much as your double jungle not getting enough done and becomes so weak that they can't even gank. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
And yeah, that's why you have to pick which junglers you pick well. Back in the day WW+Olaf was pretty nasty because Olaf would literally just clear half the jungle and WW would start at team mini-gol side and clear that instead, so you'd end up with both red buffs in the first 2 minutes and annihilate the enemy jungler. Once 6 WW's gank is nasty. You can replace it now with like, I dunno, Noc Fiddle or something and you'd have the difficult-to-stop ganks on top of still maintaining that route flexibility. Furthermore by choosing heroes properly you still maintain dragon control, ie. via Fiddle or Udyr or whatnot. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Double knockup, headbutt rocket grab, that's a long time when the enemy can't do jack. | ||
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Attakijing
United States693 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Basically the only thing that might maintain it as viable is the ability to disguise it as a regular teamcomp(so you appear to be running ad+support+ap+jungle+ap/bruiser/talon/akali) so that they can't just counterpick the fuck out of your lane setups. That would require some working around of the 2 champs you're double jungling with(taric+alistar pretty obvious giveaway, alistar+udyr not so much). | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 19 2011 05:52 Southlight wrote: Yes, and there're a few AD heroes that're underplayed at the moment because they are balls horrible in 2v2 that would be quite happy to do it. Oddly(or not) I still think Cait would be a clear 'winner.' I'm guessing you mean that MF/Corki are leagues better in 1v1's than they are 2v2 AD/Support mirroring though. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
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Ian Ian Ian
915 Posts
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
Which is what happened with half the games Dyrus and Reginald played. There shouldn't be a question of whether it works, as it obviously does, at least in solo queue. Now that may not be an amazing feat, but the standard AD support comp Looking at profiles Dyrus is 12-5 with Blitzcrank. The real question is why it works. I think it comes from the fact that if you have 2 junglers not only do all 3 lanes on the enemy team have to play passively, but also their jungler cannot perform any ganks without the threat of getting double killed. It doesn't even matter if Alistar and Blitzcrank are like 4 levels behind either because as long as they have 1 point in their knockup/stuns they're set for ganking until people can kill them in 1 combo. Furthermore, you take every single dragon because there is no way in hell that you can contest a team with 2 smites and that much cc from taking dragon. What I also noticed was that when they won, the lanes were usually people who had stuns, such as sion. I don't care how good you are, as long as you're not sitting by your tower, you're going to die to sion stun -> blitzcrank knockup -> alistar knockup + headbutting back. And if you flash you just get pulled. What this means is teams either have to ward the fuck out of everything, which they can't even do until they go back to lane once, and by the time that happens at least 3 ganks will have gone down. However, I also feel that this is easily countered. For example, on stream I saw Regi and Dyrus go against TheOddOne jungle, and what Oddone did was just gank bot at level 2 and pushed the bot tower in. Their strat was like ineffective after that, but even still it was a close game. On another note. All in all, aside from putting an AP mid, I feel that any fucking around with lanes/ jungle matchups works. AP mid is sort of a staple because they are the champs that can push waves to tower really fast then go to gank other lanes. Putting AD there doesn't work because cmon lets face it, when mid wins lane as AD you just get to win mid lane. When Cassiopeia/Morgana/etc win lane they push to tower then gank bot/top/jungle for kills/dragon all day. Most AD carries don't even have a slow let alone a stun, and can't push waves as fast. I hope whatever i said made sense because i sort of just ranted it out and didn't check for errors | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
All you need is for your team to not play like morons. | ||
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