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So after watching Dyrus and Reginald own it up with double jungle Alistar/Blitzcrank, I was wondering whether you guys think this is a viable strategy.
If you haven't seen it, here are some links:
http://www.own3d.tv/video/237677/Reginald_and_Dyrus_changing_the_meta
http://www.own3d.tv/video/238481/BLITZSTAR__CHANGING_THE_META_BRO
It seems to have a really strong early game, with a huge lead built right off the bat, but falls off a bit in the late game.
The strategy is very bannable in a tournament, unless other champions could be used. Another thing to consider is that this was duo queue, and neither team had any preparation/counter-strategy to deal with it.
So what do you guys think? Troll or OP?
Poll: Troll or OP?Troll (57) 84% Viable strategy (11) 16% 68 total votes Your vote: Troll or OP? (Vote): Troll
(Vote): Viable strategy
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Pretty legit if you ask me
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All I saw was them stomping no names and vman7 who isn't that great of a player either........ -_-
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not for tournaments, but funny and decent enough to make it into some ranked games - have been seeing this in EU more than a year ago though
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Really this just shows the difference between solo queue and proper team coordination. Still baffles me why the pro teams practice primarily in solo.
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Obvious troll is obvious tbh...
Best games were actually where the enemy team was ahead of them and banned Blitz, so they picked alistar + maokai instead. Was even bigger rape then this BlizAlistar combo.
But yes, its troll all the way.
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If you consider Regi's poor performance when tryharding solo Q, then you might think it's actually legit.
Then you realize that nobody banned or picked Eve in tournaments when she was permabanned at high elo solo Q.
That being said, I wouldn't just call it troll and be done with it. Roaming was a legit strat for a while, and double jungle is pretty much the same concept.
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United States37500 Posts
Regi and Dyrus were also practicing Maokai too, in addition to Ali Blitz.
The main problem with this double CC jungle strat is the lack of champions that can successfully farm bot lane 1v2. We’ve seen champions like Cho and Galio solo bot but they typically get zoned very early on.
It’s a decent idea and it’s only going to stay that (an idea) unless TSM decides to test it out in a scrim. They’re essentially trading very stronk ganks (setting back enemy lanes) for a very weak solo bot.
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Troll? Probably.
Awesome? Definitely.
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It was funny as hell to watch though. And it got regi up to 1800 elo unlike his tryharding l0l
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Like others mentioned it relies on a decent 1v2 laner. Also if you don't get a big lead early on, you fall really far behind. Getting counter jungled or double ganked is huge pressure for any jungler or solo lane with that much CC. One ranked game a long time ago ran double jungle with Nunu/Trynd. It was interesting...
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I was thinking about trying this in some normals, and brainstorming heroes that would be good for it. So far I'm thinking garen taric and rammus would also be good. Any other ideas?
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It was viable and extremely strong prior to the support + AD bot meta. Nowadays you can fuck up a lot of lanes but that super-farmed ranged AD is going to blow up your team anyways.
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On October 19 2011 00:43 Southlight wrote:
It was viable and extremely strong prior to the support + AD bot meta. Nowadays you can fuck up a lot of lanes but that super-farmed ranged AD is going to blow up your team anyways.
Not if you throw a super farmed Singed/Garen/Renekton in their face.
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Maybe. People are forgetting that the double jungle funks up the enemy jungler too, so it might work out that way, but you'd have to play pretty perfect.
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United States37500 Posts
On October 19 2011 01:07 Southlight wrote:
Maybe. People are forgetting that the double jungle funks up the enemy jungler too, so it might work out that way, but you'd have to play pretty perfect.
Pretty much this. Double jungle must set one (if not two) champions on the other team back severely. The exp/gold splitting between two junglers is going to hurt a lot already. And afaik, most double junglers focus more on CC, rather than DPS. Most of them don't really go Wriggle's, so you have this weird lack of Buff/Dragon control.
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I dont see this to be viable in competetive play but for example we take standart high elo EU bans:
Kogmaw (simply incredible broken, think the us knows this now aswell #1,#2,#3 ^.^)
Lee Sin ( a very mobile extremely strong early jungle/ganker)
Kassadin ( again a pretty strong early ganker who can reach top/bot from his midlane)
(AP) Sion (same as kassadin with even stronger ganks!)
Akali ( can be played like kassa/sion but could be played top aswell where she is able to snowball pretty hard)
(Morgana, gets banned every now and then but a bit different)
so what do we see: strong early ganks seem to dominate solo q the reason is : ppl cant communicate that well and ppl are more agressive in solo q. Botlane doesnt go b immediatly when mid is missing same with top. Toplane/botlane doesnt back off if they think lee sin might lvl 2 gank after dbl golems. And I think the most important part: people flame, if someone does bad early/mid they flame 24/7 and with flame comes bad play due to dismotivation and because they type more then they actually play.
That Blitz/ali combo NEEDS many kills early game. Because they are behind "real" junglers who have their jungle for themself. One lane will be losing really hard (1v2 is very hard if the enemy has a strong lane, like trist/sona cait/X...). So this lane will need help. In addition the dbl jungle would lose a 1v1 fight against anyone if they meet the enemy jungler in a 1v1 fight they will most likely lose.
The lastpart the combo is HORRIBLE later(lategame) they are underfarmed/underleveld and even if they are higher level I think a gp or sth is way scarier then blitz or ali.
End of story : I think it might be really strong in solo q (if the jungle duo are mates) but it wont work in tourneys
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I got pubstomped by an Blitz/shaco where the blitz pulled me into the bush's where shaco's box's instagibbed me and then later after blitz powerfisted me in the air while the box's dps'ed me. That seems pretty wicked.
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first thing that happens in the first clip is dyrus missing a straight line blitz grab
-_-
second clip they all spam their gap closers over and over then the person just flashes away, they get lucky that the taric sucks etc ;/ i know this is just a troll video but cant watch it when it looks like random scrubs beating on other scrubs
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so i am still new to lol and have heard the term CC multiple times and don't know what it means...can anyone tell me? (its in the title of the thread)
also CV is clairvoyance right?
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United States37500 Posts
CC = Crowd Control
CV = Clarivoyance
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I think it's viable. A handful of champions can 1v2 an AD + support lane as long as you make the correct bans. In addition to pulling off successful ganks the jungling duo would also have to shut down the other jungler. It's a bit of an all-in strat but definitely viable.
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zulu which champs you would say can do that, I guess morgana but dunno if anyone else can really do 1v2 against agressive botlanes.
Cho cant do that, when clg tried it he got stomped by sona/tristana (2 deaths before minute 5 or sth)
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United States37500 Posts
On October 19 2011 02:43 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think it's viable. A handful of champions can 1v2 an AD + support lane as long as you make the correct bans. In addition to pulling off successful ganks the jungling duo would also have to shut down the other jungler. It's a bit of an all-in strat but definitely viable.
"it's viable" with no examples is a moot post.
Also "all-in" and "viable" in the same sentence confuses me a bit.
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singed after 6, galio, ori, kennen, teemo, sion probably, yorick
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On October 19 2011 02:59 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 02:43 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think it's viable. A handful of champions can 1v2 an AD + support lane as long as you make the correct bans. In addition to pulling off successful ganks the jungling duo would also have to shut down the other jungler. It's a bit of an all-in strat but definitely viable. "it's viable" with no examples is a moot post. Also "all-in" and "viable" in the same sentence confuses me a bit.
Hence I said "I think" it's viable from theorycraft. Running shaco in 5s is all-in too but obviously viable.
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On October 19 2011 03:01 zulu_nation8 wrote:
singed after 6, galio, ori, kennen, teemo, sion probably, yorick
no no no no no no and no
seriously all of those get crushed by ranged AD + support.
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Cho and Galio are terrible 1v2's because they have long cooldown and would need to blow their spells just to get 1 or 2 creeps since they have no real control.
I think a well-specced Karthus or Casseiopia could probably 1v2 and do decently. Long range, low cooldown so that they can actually get a low-health creep without being left with nothing for 10 seconds after.
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just no. How can Singed 1v2? Singed needs some space so he can farm, he needs to be able to run from tower to tower so his poison trail can actually kill the minions. That is not possible vs ad/support lane. They WILL zone you, and possible burst you with sona/trist burst or other high burst combs. Galio, yeah probably he can do it, forgot about him.
Kennen, no way he has no sustain no pushing potential (he needs to get in the minions to push the lane with E W, ad carries will just kill you).
Teemo, you must be joking a teemo cant push at all, he cant farm from a safe distance he will get ourharassed/burstet and has to go back.
Sion again someone who has to walk into the creeps to push the lane, if he does that he will just eat stun from ali/taric or ~200 burst from sona. Leona will just destroy him.
Yorick again he might be able to do it but I think he just cant push good enaugh.
Now you might say : why push then the enemy is at your tower thats what we want, dont we?
False. You want the enemy champions near your tower and the creepgold in your pocket. Yeah Ente but then my 2 junglers can gank them, theoretically right but, you will be purple site, you have to have the lastpick which in tourneys is purple(99% of the time). That means that the enemy can just ward your dragon and be nearly safe to ganks, if the jungler/midplayer then wards his jungle entrance to botlane you cant be really ganked, and the botlane will just hugely be outfarmed.
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The whole discussion which champ can 1v2 and which can't is useless. You have to take the enemy jungle and your double jungle into account. Early pink ward or oracles included.
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On October 19 2011 03:10 Ente wrote:
just no. How can Singed 1v2? Singed needs some space so he can farm, he needs to be able to run from tower to tower so his poison trail can actually kill the minions. That is not possible vs ad/support lane. They WILL zone you, and possible burst you with sona/trist burst or other high burst combs. Galio, yeah probably he can do it, forgot about him.
Kennen, no way he has no sustain no pushing potential (he needs to get in the minions to push the lane with E W, ad carries will just kill you).
Teemo, you must be joking a teemo cant push at all, he cant farm from a safe distance he will get ourharassed/burstet and has to go back.
Sion again someone who has to walk into the creeps to push the lane, if he does that he will just eat stun from ali/taric or ~200 burst from sona. Leona will just destroy him.
Yorick again he might be able to do it but I think he just cant push good enaugh.
Now you might say : why push then the enemy is at your tower thats what we want, dont we?
False. You want the enemy champions near your tower and the creepgold in your pocket. Yeah Ente but then my 2 junglers can gank them, theoretically right but, you will be purple site, you have to have the lastpick which in tourneys is purple(99% of the time). That means that the enemy can just ward your dragon and be nearly safe to ganks, if the jungler/midplayer then wards his jungle entrance to botlane you cant be really ganked, and the botlane will just hugely be outfarmed.
Pretty sure you'd run a pink ward and abuse the fuck out of 3v2s bot.
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if you ban cait and kog i think the ad+bot lane gets a lot easier
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I remember back in the day IlyVm and Shadow refused to let go of jungle so we did Olaf WW double jungle with me on poor Kass 1v2 bot vs Janna Nid, and one good gank ended their lane. <_<;
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dont see it really hapenning because the dbl botlane will most likely outlevel the sololane (or at least same level) and 100% outlevel the jungle, ofc if you NOT get killed at lvl 1/2 which is easy avoidable
Edit: atm kog is a 100% ban, no way to let it open anyway. Yeah probably cait has to be banned but tristana isnt worse, Urgot would be a huge threat aswell due to his incredible poke and tristana because she can oneshot everything early on.
For me there are just too many counters for that botlane that this strategy might be affective. And its just like that if the team without dbl jungler doesnt lose early game, they WILL win
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On October 19 2011 02:59 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 02:43 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think it's viable. A handful of champions can 1v2 an AD + support lane as long as you make the correct bans. In addition to pulling off successful ganks the jungling duo would also have to shut down the other jungler. It's a bit of an all-in strat but definitely viable. "it's viable" with no examples is a moot post. Also "all-in" and "viable" in the same sentence confuses me a bit.
if single people werent able to suvive bottom lane vs ad + support people could just run ad + support top lane too to crush the early game but they dont, there has to be a reason for it.
whether theres enough xp to make 2 jungles viable is another question but you could counter jungle pretty hard so its not as closed case as your tone implies D:
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United States37500 Posts
On October 19 2011 03:22 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 02:59 NeoIllusions wrote:On October 19 2011 02:43 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think it's viable. A handful of champions can 1v2 an AD + support lane as long as you make the correct bans. In addition to pulling off successful ganks the jungling duo would also have to shut down the other jungler. It's a bit of an all-in strat but definitely viable. "it's viable" with no examples is a moot post. Also "all-in" and "viable" in the same sentence confuses me a bit. if single people werent able to suvive bottom lane vs ad + support people could just run ad + support top lane too to crush the early game but they dont, there has to be a reason for it. whether theres enough xp to make 2 jungles viable is another question but you could counter jungle pretty hard so its not as closed case as your tone implies D:
AD + Support top would most likely own the solo top. Except you're conceding total control of Dragon. Enemy 3-4 man Dragon would make up the poor farming their solo top is suffering. Overall, enemy team would still come out on top.
That's the main reason why you don't see AD+Support top.
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ive played vs nunu/shaco doing this, they were pretty much worthless though. We still lost -_-
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On October 19 2011 03:22 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 02:59 NeoIllusions wrote:On October 19 2011 02:43 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think it's viable. A handful of champions can 1v2 an AD + support lane as long as you make the correct bans. In addition to pulling off successful ganks the jungling duo would also have to shut down the other jungler. It's a bit of an all-in strat but definitely viable. "it's viable" with no examples is a moot post. Also "all-in" and "viable" in the same sentence confuses me a bit. if single people werent able to suvive bottom lane vs ad + support people could just run ad + support top lane too to crush the early game but they dont, there has to be a reason for it.
Teams shifting their duo lane top because they think that their solo is able to 2v1 better than the other teams has been done to some extent in recent tournaments.
In my opinion the doublejungling is very similar to people running a dedicated roamer, at first it was very effective because people didn't know how to deal with it but once they adapted it became severely worse. Combined with bottom lanes that can crush people 2v1 being the standard now, I can't see this being viable.
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I think running a good AD + support lane is harder than it seems. How many ADs can actually resist pushing the wave in a 2v1 lane? The more agressively the support tries to zone bot, the more vulnerable he is to a gank. How many supports can camp and maintain control of the bot brushes, which is step 1 to effective zoning, and at the same time keep aware of where the enemy jungler(s) are? Out of the current ADs, which ones besides really only Cait can harass as well as lasthit with autos and not miss farm? Not to mention ADs like Tris actually push the wave naturally. Ashe doesn't hurt, Vayne hurts but has bad range. Corki/MF are okay but no one runs them. With the current meta If I am to run a 1v2 bot I would most likely ban Cait and Ali if I don't try to first pick one of the two. Out of the resulting pool I can't think of a single bot lane people normally run that would destroy every 2v1. Urgot with another aggressive support probably does but no one runs him.
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Heres the thing.
Nothing is really "TROOOOLL" in LoL. If you can make it work on a high level it's viable but usually it's extremely situational.
Like in SC2 there are no real troll builds, there's just gimmicky situational and funny things.
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Urgot with another aggressive support probably does but no one runs him.
thats the funny thing bout eu/us 
In EU some ppl actually BAN urgot because they hate him, we have some dedicated urgot players:
Lounet, yellowpete and again why would you NOT push, if you have decent ward control there is no problem with pushing the other guy into the tower
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I don't even think too much of the bot lane issue, since I do think there are champions that can survive that lane 1v2....but what exactly are you going to do with 2 really underfarmed/underleveled junglers if your ganks don't work, l0l
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On October 19 2011 03:57 Juicyfruit wrote:
I don't even think too much of the bot lane issue, since I do think there are champions that can survive that lane 1v2....but what exactly are you going to do with 2 really underfarmed/underleveled junglers if your ganks don't work, l0l
The threat of ganks (due to the ability to protect an early Oracle) and the damage dealt by ganks (unless your lane is savagely losing) leads to the two solo lanes consistently being ahead. This combined with a fantastically fucked enemy jungler means you're essentially 3/4ing your two junglers and 1/2ing your bot solo for two 3/4'd enemy solos and a demolished enemy jungler along with complete map control. This would be the "worst-case scenario" if played perfectly. The "best-case scenario" thus becomes two royally fucked solos (and two royally fed solos on double team) along with two decently fed/farmed junglers against a royally fucked jungler, with a staying-alive bot lane and a "got ganked and set behind too often" bot lane.
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Southlight I dont agree I think, and what I saw in dyrus stream(didnt tuned in very long): the dbl jungler gets behind rly rly hard, other are like lvl 6-9 and they are 3-4. Which might lead to they gank and some1 gets a tripple kill, you cant underestimate the loss of xp/gold if they dont get the kill lvl 2/3 they are screwed
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For instance you have an Irelia vs Garen lane.
At level 2 something pops out of the bush and whacks Garen, leaving him at 1/4 hp.
He can either back, or stay. Regardless his early-game presence has been SHAFTED, which is huge considering a lot of people in this subforum believe Garen fucks Irelia up.
At level 4-5 something pops out again and either kills him or drops him back to ridiculously low levels.
Boom, Garen has now lost his lane.
Well, maybe he can get a countergank to h- oh right, his jungler has jackall for farm and levels either. So he's now been removed from the game while Irelia has free-farm.
You can say the same for mid. What's a good matchup. How about Cass vs Twitch, a matchup that she should win 20 times out of 20. But at level 2 she gets ganked by one person, forcing a flash, the next level another gank comes, this time from the other ganker, forcing her HP down, the next level the other ganker comes in. Every level she gets ganked one after another. Regardless of the success of these ganks, she cannot play comfortably, and can even fall behind in farm, while the laner who shoulda been crushed gets to farm relatively comfortable.
etc. etc.
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On October 19 2011 03:51 Ente wrote:thats the funny thing bout eu/us In EU some ppl actually BAN urgot because they hate him, we have some dedicated urgot players: Lounet, yellowpete and again why would you NOT push, if you have decent ward control there is no problem with pushing the other guy into the tower
If you 2v1 then you actually don't want the bot tower to fall too quickly otherwise the solo can actually farm. Also early on the only way a 1v2 solo can farm is if creeps are pushed to his tower. The tradeoff is you're almost guaranteed to get all early dragons but from that you would have to push aggressively to capitalize on your advantage which is again more difficult than it seems. Urgot is actually something of a direct counter to Cait and many other AD lanes but only with a non soraka support. EU is way ahead in botlane meta for both AD and support matchups. NA teams still don't ward and counterward the bot bushes aggressively enough.
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On October 19 2011 04:10 Southlight wrote:
For instance you have an Irelia vs Garen lane.
At level 2 something pops out of the bush and whacks Garen, leaving him at 1/4 hp.
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But all those ganks in your scenario worked and did huge amount of damage to boot :X Conversely, I can said I choose Kennen mid vs double jungle and then amuse myself by the fact that none of the ganks are ever going to work with like 1 ward.
This is not really a discussion or anything, I just think the major risk isn't really bot lane being screwed 1v2 so much as your double jungle not getting enough done and becomes so weak that they can't even gank.
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Quick oracle > ward, was the point I brought up in the earlier post. It's really hard to kill a double jungle Oracle as long as they don't fuck up.
And yeah, that's why you have to pick which junglers you pick well. Back in the day WW+Olaf was pretty nasty because Olaf would literally just clear half the jungle and WW would start at team mini-gol side and clear that instead, so you'd end up with both red buffs in the first 2 minutes and annihilate the enemy jungler. Once 6 WW's gank is nasty. You can replace it now with like, I dunno, Noc Fiddle or something and you'd have the difficult-to-stop ganks on top of still maintaining that route flexibility.
Furthermore by choosing heroes properly you still maintain dragon control, ie. via Fiddle or Udyr or whatnot.
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If the double gank team is something like regi and dyrus runs, you gotta be afk for 10 mins to be weak enough to not be able to gank the solo lanes at least. So much CC when the enemy can't do anything that your side sololaner will easily kill the enemy.
Double knockup, headbutt rocket grab, that's a long time when the enemy can't do jack.
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the fact that people are arguing about it means its possible. if the support carries smite and CV and is able to roam when needed it could be a new technique. going double jungle every game is counterable but leaving the possibility open only sets you back as many summoners as you sacrifice for smites.
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Something nobody has brought up(directly at least) is the lack of AD in the double jungle team. Are you going to return to AD mid(not saying it doesn't work, just furthering discussion) so you can have a viable top lane matchup and someone who can at least 'survive' the 1v2 bot?
Basically the only thing that might maintain it as viable is the ability to disguise it as a regular teamcomp(so you appear to be running ad+support+ap+jungle+ap/bruiser/talon/akali) so that they can't just counterpick the fuck out of your lane setups. That would require some working around of the 2 champs you're double jungling with(taric+alistar pretty obvious giveaway, alistar+udyr not so much).
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Yes, and there're a few AD heroes that're underplayed at the moment because they are balls horrible in 2v2 that would be quite happy to do it.
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I'm not sure if it could become a stable meta, but it could definitely work as a one-game "cheese". At the bare minimum, double roam provides dominance against the jungler and one lane, probably two. The transition for the junglers might be an iffy point, but some champions don't really need levels to be effective (Blitz/Alistar). The level difference in the closer games was around 1-2 below the bottom lane, which is workable in a team with three solo lanes.
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On October 19 2011 05:52 Southlight wrote:
Yes, and there're a few AD heroes that're underplayed at the moment because they are balls horrible in 2v2 that would be quite happy to do it.
Oddly(or not) I still think Cait would be a clear 'winner.' I'm guessing you mean that MF/Corki are leagues better in 1v1's than they are 2v2 AD/Support mirroring though.
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And Ashe, who's considered a bad laner but in reality is hard as hell to actually "beat' in lane. Teemo too.
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Whos the one talking on the vods? Sounds like a major douchebag
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You don't need AD if you win every single game in under 25 minutes. Also, I recall Rain Man saying something along the lines of "AD isn't needed in solo queue because the team that snowballs in early game is always the team that wins, and damage type is irrelevant early on when no one has armor or MR"
Which is what happened with half the games Dyrus and Reginald played.
There shouldn't be a question of whether it works, as it obviously does, at least in solo queue. Now that may not be an amazing feat, but the standard AD support comp Looking at profiles Dyrus is 12-5 with Blitzcrank.
The real question is why it works.
I think it comes from the fact that if you have 2 junglers not only do all 3 lanes on the enemy team have to play passively, but also their jungler cannot perform any ganks without the threat of getting double killed.
It doesn't even matter if Alistar and Blitzcrank are like 4 levels behind either because as long as they have 1 point in their knockup/stuns they're set for ganking until people can kill them in 1 combo.
Furthermore, you take every single dragon because there is no way in hell that you can contest a team with 2 smites and that much cc from taking dragon.
What I also noticed was that when they won, the lanes were usually people who had stuns, such as sion. I don't care how good you are, as long as you're not sitting by your tower, you're going to die to sion stun -> blitzcrank knockup -> alistar knockup + headbutting back. And if you flash you just get pulled.
What this means is teams either have to ward the fuck out of everything, which they can't even do until they go back to lane once, and by the time that happens at least 3 ganks will have gone down.
However, I also feel that this is easily countered. For example, on stream I saw Regi and Dyrus go against TheOddOne jungle, and what Oddone did was just gank bot at level 2 and pushed the bot tower in. Their strat was like ineffective after that, but even still it was a close game.
On another note.
All in all, aside from putting an AP mid, I feel that any fucking around with lanes/ jungle matchups works.
AP mid is sort of a staple because they are the champs that can push waves to tower really fast then go to gank other lanes.
Putting AD there doesn't work because cmon lets face it, when mid wins lane as AD you just get to win mid lane. When Cassiopeia/Morgana/etc win lane they push to tower then gank bot/top/jungle for kills/dragon all day. Most AD carries don't even have a slow let alone a stun, and can't push waves as fast.
I hope whatever i said made sense because i sort of just ranted it out and didn't check for errors
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Of course it's troll. Your bot lane should shit on theirs. Both junglers will be underfarmed and way underleveled. Instead of having a high farm bot, medium farm jungle, no farm support, you have three low farm champs.
All you need is for your team to not play like morons.
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I've got an idea... triple jungle!!
Fidtzstar!
Fear+Pull+Headbutt=OP
jk jk.
I think Blitzstar works well with support teemo. 3 solo lanes+crippled other jungle could be very viable, but as always, shut down with good scouting and good counters.
Extremely situational, with the situation being- against noobs (I'm pre-30.. a frequent situation).
I had someone tell me today that losing someone for dragon-flash-smite wasn't worth it.... eugh.
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Utility skills possibly useful for double jungle + ways to get them
+ Show Spoiler +Single person movement speed
Rammus powerball
Mobility boots
Janna W passive
Nunu W
Shoving people around
Blitzcrank Q
Janna ult
Alistar
AOE MS buff
Gangplank E
Sona E
Shureliya's
Nunu W kinda
Janna passive
PvE skills
Nunu Q
Fiddle drain
Skills that make you tanky: rammus W, alistar ult, having taric there, fiddle drain again (for tanking dragon)
Madreds things
Some long ass CC
Fiddle fear
Rammus taunt
GP permaslow
Sion Q
Taric Q
CC breaking
GP w
Alistar ult
Fast tower killing
Alistar passive
Rammus ult
Any actually useful item
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i was in one of the games that they tried blizstar
we just warded and survived early game.. then won 
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EPT
