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United States47024 Posts
On October 09 2011 12:06 Requizen wrote:
He doesn't seem to get anything more from Wits End, Malady or Bloodrazor than any other ranged carry, and the others don't seem to get more from IE, BT or LA than he does.
I don't see how you can say Ashe/Cait don't get more from AD when Volley, Focus, Piltover Peacemaker, Ace in the Hole, and Headshot are all signficantly more threatening when they have a bunch of AD backing them up.
On October 09 2011 12:21 Requizen wrote:
Hrm, good points I suppose. It just feels odd that a char with pretty much the same playstyle has a much different build.
That's like saying that Nocturne should build Gunblade like Akali does just because they're both anti-carries.
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I'm just saying in the late game, you're not using Volley for big damage, and you'd rather auto over Peacemaker most of the time. I didn't think of crit passives, tho, AD is definitely huge there.
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On October 09 2011 12:24 TheYango wrote:
That's like saying that Nocturne should build Gunblade like Akali does just because they're both anti-carries.
Triforce gunblade on everything imoimo.
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On October 09 2011 12:16 TheYango wrote:Other AD carries generally have either AD scaling abilities, or some steroid power that favors AD items. For example, Tristana has a 90% ASpd steroid, so spending gold buying attack speed before (which is a significant component of every magic proc item) before you build up your damage is not a great way to spend your gold. Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 12:14 RetZ wrote:
Not to mention that more AS makes for stronger split pushing which is his primary role. AS is not inherently stronger for split pushing than AD. In fact, the fact that AD items don't waste gold on passives that don't proc on towers makes them better for pushing towers.
Wriggle's procs? Obviously late game AD items will be better though.
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Teemo gets +45 magic damage per attack (along with a persistent 30 magic damage per second) which means his skillset naturally goes well with magic armor shredding (Malady), more magic damage per attack (Wits end/Bloodrazor), and attack speed (all three of those items). Ashe and Cait don't do nearly as much damage per hit (they have no major +damage steroids) and they don't benefit from magic penetration/damage at all.
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On October 09 2011 13:00 ArC_man wrote:
Teemo gets +45 magic damage per attack (along with a persistent 30 magic damage per second) which means his skillset naturally goes well with magic armor shredding (Malady), more magic damage per attack (Wits end/Bloodrazor), and attack speed (all three of those items). Ashe and Cait don't do nearly as much damage per hit (they have no major +damage steroids) and they don't benefit from magic penetration/damage at all.
i hate that assumtion. wit's/BR being better on teemo/kog? why? they dont' do more damage on teemo/kog than on any other champ. (kog's armor/mr strip is not really reliable, considering you want to be max range)
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On October 09 2011 13:00 Kaneh wrote:
they dont' do more damage on teemo/kog than on any other champ.
I don't follow...
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On October 09 2011 12:30 Requizen wrote:
I'm just saying in the late game, you're not using Volley for big damage, and you'd rather auto over Peacemaker most of the time. I didn't think of crit passives, tho, AD is definitely huge there.
Peacemaker and Volley are good for poke late game. Having cait/ashe spam towers with abilities can bring the squishy heroes hiding behind turrets down quite a bit. Really helps when you have a baron buff pushing a T2/inner turret, and you trade poke damage with the opponent. You will most likely just regen through it with baron buff, while the other team will start to inch towards the half mark, allowing you to pounce if they do not back, and forcing them to back off the tower, giving it up at the very least. AD poke is a lot scarier than you think. If Ashe picks up a kill on someone with blue buff, and has high AD, she can spam volley all day and deal big poke damage faster than you would think, without burning her passive. Same goes for Cait.
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On October 09 2011 13:06 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 13:00 ArC_man wrote:
Teemo gets +45 magic damage per attack (along with a persistent 30 magic damage per second) which means his skillset naturally goes well with magic armor shredding (Malady), more magic damage per attack (Wits end/Bloodrazor), and attack speed (all three of those items). Ashe and Cait don't do nearly as much damage per hit (they have no major +damage steroids) and they don't benefit from magic penetration/damage at all. i hate that assumtion. wit's/BR being better on teemo/kog? why? they dont' do more damage on teemo/kog than on any other champ. (kog's armor/mr strip is not really reliable, considering you want to be max range)
As I understand it, because Teemo and Kog (and I'd add kayle) innately do a fair bit of magic damage already, so magic penetration is more useful. For a character that does primarily attack damage, you want to get armour pen (runes/LW) which will not benefit wit's/BR.
Edit: Also Teemo and Kog don't have skills that scale off of attack damage. On Vayne or Caitlyn or MF you want to go the attack damage route because it not only gives you more damage on your attacks but also makes your abilities more powerful.
Edit 2: well, except for kog's ult. Which is why I suppose that "standard" ad builds are more common on kog than on teemo.
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On October 09 2011 12:21 Requizen wrote:
Hrm, good points I suppose. It just feels odd that a char with pretty much the same playstyle has a much different build.
They really don't have very similar playstyles. Unless you're referring to 'kiting', in which case... yeah, pretty much all ranged champs want to do that.
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On October 09 2011 13:06 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 13:00 ArC_man wrote:
Teemo gets +45 magic damage per attack (along with a persistent 30 magic damage per second) which means his skillset naturally goes well with magic armor shredding (Malady), more magic damage per attack (Wits end/Bloodrazor), and attack speed (all three of those items). Ashe and Cait don't do nearly as much damage per hit (they have no major +damage steroids) and they don't benefit from magic penetration/damage at all. i hate that assumtion. wit's/BR being better on teemo/kog? why? they dont' do more damage on teemo/kog than on any other champ. (kog's armor/mr strip is not really reliable, considering you want to be max range)
I don't understand how it's an assumption at all. Their skills do significant magic damage already so it's a viable build to continue stacking more magic damage and magic penetration (more viable than stacking magic damage on characters who scale off of AD at least). In fact, before they changed Kog's ult to scale with AD it was common to see Void Staff after core items (BR/Mallet).
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Just bought Lee sin and tried 3 games with him, people told me hes incredibly hard but I think I got the hang of him pretty damn quick, getting legendarys. hes incredibly powerful and fun 
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On October 09 2011 13:36 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 13:06 Kaneh wrote:On October 09 2011 13:00 ArC_man wrote:
Teemo gets +45 magic damage per attack (along with a persistent 30 magic damage per second) which means his skillset naturally goes well with magic armor shredding (Malady), more magic damage per attack (Wits end/Bloodrazor), and attack speed (all three of those items). Ashe and Cait don't do nearly as much damage per hit (they have no major +damage steroids) and they don't benefit from magic penetration/damage at all. i hate that assumtion. wit's/BR being better on teemo/kog? why? they dont' do more damage on teemo/kog than on any other champ. (kog's armor/mr strip is not really reliable, considering you want to be max range) I don't understand how it's an assumption at all. Their skills do significant magic damage already so it's a viable build to continue stacking more magic damage and magic penetration (more viable than stacking magic damage on characters who scale off of AD at least). In fact, before they changed Kog's ult to scale with AD it was common to see Void Staff after core items (BR/Mallet).
that's just it, LW+IE is better than BR+Void. cheaper too. your autos are crap comparatively when BR's proc has to make up 90 damage. the crits and AS roughly balance out, and any further AS, crit, or AD benefit LW+IE much more.
you have to get a TON of mileage out of that mpen from your spells, and if that's the case, why not just go full ap?
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On October 09 2011 12:36 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 12:24 TheYango wrote:
That's like saying that Nocturne should build Gunblade like Akali does just because they're both anti-carries. Triforce gunblade on everything imoimo.
I'll test this in our games BP npnp
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Holy shit. Caseynelson ashe on voyboy's stream.
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On October 09 2011 14:04 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 13:36 ArC_man wrote:On October 09 2011 13:06 Kaneh wrote:On October 09 2011 13:00 ArC_man wrote:
Teemo gets +45 magic damage per attack (along with a persistent 30 magic damage per second) which means his skillset naturally goes well with magic armor shredding (Malady), more magic damage per attack (Wits end/Bloodrazor), and attack speed (all three of those items). Ashe and Cait don't do nearly as much damage per hit (they have no major +damage steroids) and they don't benefit from magic penetration/damage at all. i hate that assumtion. wit's/BR being better on teemo/kog? why? they dont' do more damage on teemo/kog than on any other champ. (kog's armor/mr strip is not really reliable, considering you want to be max range) I don't understand how it's an assumption at all. Their skills do significant magic damage already so it's a viable build to continue stacking more magic damage and magic penetration (more viable than stacking magic damage on characters who scale off of AD at least). In fact, before they changed Kog's ult to scale with AD it was common to see Void Staff after core items (BR/Mallet). that's just it, LW+IE is better than BR+Void. cheaper too. your autos are crap comparatively when BR's proc has to make up 90 damage. the crits and AS roughly balance out, and any further AS, crit, or AD benefit LW+IE much more. you have to get a TON of mileage out of that mpen from your spells, and if that's the case, why not just go full ap?
don't play teemo, but the logical guess would be that the AP scaling is so shitty that it fails in comparison to reapplying the DoTs and on hit effects at a fast rate (not to mention some of these DoTs stack as well, such as malady). also + having many little darts pricking you at the same time is no fun.
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On October 09 2011 14:04 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 13:36 ArC_man wrote:On October 09 2011 13:06 Kaneh wrote:On October 09 2011 13:00 ArC_man wrote:
Teemo gets +45 magic damage per attack (along with a persistent 30 magic damage per second) which means his skillset naturally goes well with magic armor shredding (Malady), more magic damage per attack (Wits end/Bloodrazor), and attack speed (all three of those items). Ashe and Cait don't do nearly as much damage per hit (they have no major +damage steroids) and they don't benefit from magic penetration/damage at all. i hate that assumtion. wit's/BR being better on teemo/kog? why? they dont' do more damage on teemo/kog than on any other champ. (kog's armor/mr strip is not really reliable, considering you want to be max range) I don't understand how it's an assumption at all. Their skills do significant magic damage already so it's a viable build to continue stacking more magic damage and magic penetration (more viable than stacking magic damage on characters who scale off of AD at least). In fact, before they changed Kog's ult to scale with AD it was common to see Void Staff after core items (BR/Mallet). that's just it, LW+IE is better than BR+Void. cheaper too. your autos are crap comparatively when BR's proc has to make up 90 damage. the crits and AS roughly balance out, and any further AS, crit, or AD benefit LW+IE much more. you have to get a TON of mileage out of that mpen from your spells, and if that's the case, why not just go full ap?
First off, what you said has completely nothing to do with the argument that Bloodrazor/Wits/Malady are better on Kog/Teemo than on Cait/Ashe (which was the main topic of discussion). You're comparing straight ranged dps items with something that a Teemo would build. With different items your character takes on different roles, Teemo and Kog built in this way act as more of a bruiser who builds semi-tanky items than flat out glass cannon.
BR proc does 90 damage when opponents have 2250 HP; most targets you're going to be hitting with this type of build generally have over 2250 HP (not exactly hard to achieve).
I would also argue that full AP on both characters are viable builds as well (I personally think AP Kog is pretty beast, but maybe that's just me). But if you're building full on AP you're again changing the role of the character. Just because one build may be optimized for one role doesn't mean other builds are not viable for other roles. You gonna tell me that TRM's Malady/BR/Mallet build isn't optimal and he should go IE/LW/Pdancer on Teemo instead?
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Erhm... this might be a tough question..
Who on TL set up the whole bleap thing? These little icons to tell if a stream is love or not:
![[image loading]](http://bleap.net/tl/stream_online_justin.php?stream=nachielous)
I just found out that they work for twitch.tv - but not for own3d.tv
Can anyone help out if the URLs are wrong in general or wtf is up?
(check here e.g. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=259585 )
e.g. my stream is online right now and it doesn't show anything for it. Same if I try e.g. Voybos who's definitly online right now.
Mine:
Voyboys:
![[image loading]](http://bleap.net/tl/stream_online_own3d.php?stream=Voyboy)
Edit: I'm keeping mine online with a black screen for the time being so people who have a clue can help out troubleshooting maybe. :S
Edit 2: The dude who seems to be running bleap.net is named Sykes there - http://blog.bleap.net ... Anyone know who that on TL is?
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so what is the deal with the legendary caseynelson anyway
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Well, time to tell you all a story.
Me and my friends made a premade team of four, and we played a normal game. We got a teammate called Poopitypoopoop who played Malphite, he was a feeder not too bad though since he only fed like 2 or 3 kills in the early stages of the game. Whenever he killed someone he recalled his name a lot of times and spammed it on chat. Also he made lots of similes and metaphors, it was HILARIOUS :3
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EPT
