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On September 21 2011 03:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:34 Mogwai wrote:
Champion with high skill cap is released
Champion is complained about
Champion gets hotfixed with extremely powerful buffs
I'm not saying they're the same character or anything, I'm just saying, it's the same progression and after Lee Sin, that progression makes me wanna punch a baby in the face and punt a puppy out a window. The least they could do is give characters 2 weeks before they go nuts with buffs. At the risk of sounding like a broken record--2 months. At-release Brand people thought he was mediocre or underwhelming. 2 months later, with no changes whatsoever, he was considered one of the top 3 AP carry picks in the game.
Most of the good players understood off the bat that he was just hard to play :/ You can go back in the thread histories and find a bunch of us always saying that people sucked at him cuz he was skill-shot based. Brand is a bad example there.
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Two_Down's op Kennen guide:
Fail miserably against solo top nidalee. Farm enough for revolver+cap. Press R. Ace their team.
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HOW DID YOU EVEN LOSE TOP THAT BAD? l0l
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The champions didn't rotate yet ^_^ I wanted to play blitz 
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United States47024 Posts
On September 21 2011 03:35 Southlight wrote:
Most of the good players understood off the bat that he was just hard to play :/ You can go back in the thread histories and find a bunch of us always saying that people sucked at him cuz he was skill-shot based. Brand is a bad example there.
I mean, my point is that these things are overly driven by mass opinion, and you can say that a champ has potential, but usually it takes people ~3 months to produce results that sway mass opinion enough for Riot to see it. See: Irelia, Lee Sin, Phoenix Udyr, etc.
Also:
On April 13 2011 17:25 Southlight wrote:
He doesn't do enough damage to merit taking over the heros he's actually similar to (Veigar Leblanc) both of whom are superior at nuking the shit out of one hero and kick in faster, and his AoE is trumped by stuff like Swain Annie Ryze, if you want to look at his %-based and say "but he can killz tanks" (hint: he can't) you might as well take Malzahar, given that that hero is strong as hell anyways.
Individually thanks to his passive he has some of the most fascinating skills in the game but because of skillshot (misses a lot) and lack of CC he just feels really meh. It's... it's like Cho'gath, is who Brand is like, only taking out the CC and free HP and replacing the true damage single-target nuke with an AoE thing.
What was this about understanding right off the bat he was strong?
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Notice how when it came down to my "meh" it was because of missing a lot and lack of CC.
Edit:
For the record I still don't consider his AoE damage that great. It's why he's not really ban-worthy. It CAN be great, which was certainly an oversight (quantitatively based on numbers + bounce + conflag) but his strength has really come from his sustained single target damage, so my comparison was fairly spot on.
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People also thought Rumble was crap when he first came out. No buffs in his past, just nerfs and bug fixes. At some point, he became a top AP Melee pick. So... yeah. Just give some time. I'm not saying Riven will be tier 1 or imbaimbaOP, but don't say "garbage tier" in a week.
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People considered Rumble OP from the start lol, his absence after his initial release puzzled people more than anything else. I think it was because they released a hero literally one week after him, and so he got drowned out, for whatever reason.
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that reason was probably vayne...
though to be fair, I remember people saying things such as: Jarvan is completely mediocre (when he came out), Irelia is nothing special and not that strong (when she came out), Rumble was forgotten by Vayne for good reasons. Renekton was also considered mediocre until like 1 week after release if I remember right 
seems people like to call champs for being bad/nothing special before they actually have the time to figure them out.
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Was it Vayne that was released the following week? That'd probably have done it hahah. We introduce OP melee caster tank hero.
Then follow it with RANGED POPPY.
Edit:
Of the above list I was only really around for Irelia, and the reason people thought she was mediocre was because people believed Riot when they thought she was a melee DPS like Yi.
Herp.
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USA playing Germany in 5 minutes apparently.
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On September 21 2011 03:38 Juicyfruit wrote:
HOW DID YOU EVEN LOSE TOP THAT BAD? l0l
Ganked by ryze twice. I can run from anyone who cant root me in place for nine trillion years.
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hey, im a bit late to the riven/wukong etc discussion, but i just want to say that you cant expect Riot to decide in which lane a hero should be played in the current metagame and then design skills around it.
Its up to the players to figure new things out and if Riot would only design around solo top sustain, mid nuke with a stun, bot ranged ad and a healer, things would get pretty boring.
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On September 21 2011 03:30 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 02:38 Mogwai wrote:
I already miss free Noct week. Solo top Noct is way too fun. post your build
21/0/9 or 21/9/0
ArPen Reds
AD Quints
Defensive Seals and Glyphs of choice
open dblade
Q and then auto attack for like 700 damage at level 1.
get either more dblades or a wriggle's lantern for early strength, then grab a phage, any time you Q -> slow proc, hit them with E and gratz, you got a kill. Go for Frozen Mallet + Atma's or leave the phage and go Atmog's and then build trinity later.
ignite + exhaust for teh lolz (oh I hit level 2 first, gg FBed) or exhaust/ignite + flash if you wanna be a realbigpro solo top noct.
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On September 21 2011 04:01 LaNague wrote:
you cant expect Riot to decide in which lane a hero should be played in the current metagame and then design skills around it.
I only ask for them to decide if it's a jungler or a laner, and then give the tools to do one and/or the other.
As it is it feels like his skillset was deemed too strong for a jungler and subsequently balanced as such, without the realization that he's inferior to every other similar hero in lane.
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i'm gonna try to climb ladder with riven gl hf
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On September 21 2011 04:01 LaNague wrote:
hey, im a bit late to the riven/wukong etc discussion, but i just want to say that you cant expect Riot to decide in which lane a hero should be played in the current metagame and then design skills around it.
Its up to the players to figure new things out and if Riot would only design around solo top sustain, mid nuke with a stun, bot ranged ad and a healer, things would get pretty boring.
ZZZ
This is exactly what they do, and if they dont, it just speaks poorly for their champion design team. You dont think that when they design an ap carry, they ask: "well, how much harass do we want him to throw out? How much CC?" Same with AD carries. There is a reason that cait, corki, trist can all solo very effectively, while ashe has more trouble. Kits dictate where champions belong. Riot knows what the current metagame is, and more importantly, knows what they want the metagame TO BE. Not having a lane in mind when designing a champion reeks of terrible champion design.
You just need to key into certain words. When they say "This champion is meant to be a jungle" then you have every right to compare that champion to other jungers. When they say "This champion is meant to be a tanky dps" (like say wukong) you have every right to compare him to other tanky dps. And that means comparing his laning to other tanky dps.
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lol I remember when rumble came out. the first time he was free, i was just smurfing picking him and taking like tank items. I would stand there and turn on flamethrower and people would just melt and im like wtf where is my damage coming from? also i took ghost flash and would ghost across half the map to lay down my ult and change a teamfight. so lolz. i was def not surprised that he was considered OP.
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On September 21 2011 03:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:The champions didn't rotate yet ^_^ I wanted to play blitz
You wanted to play yourself?
HAHAHAHAHA
HAHA
HA
I'm so funny.
But seriously, when is Dominion coming?!?
Edit: euh... forgot the quote....
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:02 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 03:30 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:38 Mogwai wrote:
I already miss free Noct week. Solo top Noct is way too fun. post your build 21/0/9 or 21/9/0 ArPen Reds AD Quints Defensive Seals and Glyphs of choice open dblade Q and then auto attack for like 700 damage at level 1. get either more dblades or a wriggle's lantern for early strength, then grab a phage, any time you Q -> slow proc, hit them with E and gratz, you got a kill. Go for Frozen Mallet + Atma's or leave the phage and go Atmog's and then build trinity later. ignite + exhaust for teh lolz (oh I hit level 2 first, gg FBed) or exhaust/ignite + flash if you wanna be a realbigpro solo top noct.
great, thanks
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EPT
