EPT[Patch 1.0.0.125: Riven] General Discussion - Page 212
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
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AwayFromLife
United States441 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:25 JackDino wrote: Cait has traps, she has a net and 650 range, how the hell can you call her squishy. And calling her max range useless is really dumb, what makes you think any other carry can get into range of enemy carries for more than one or two hits but not cait. If you actually farmed, like you should've, you can wear down the tankies in front quite a bit if you have to. Your argument about cait's range being useless doesn't make ANY sense at all. That's the thing. Two or three hits from Cait hurts, but three hits from Vayne might kill you and two hits from Kog with a Madreds can end carries. ONE hit from Ashe is enough to slow an escaping enemy and score a kill. The same timeframe gives a Trist with Q up twice as many (if not more) shots. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
I feel like her main problem is her Q's wind up time. Because of how slow it is, it has to have good AD scaling, which directly contributes to her broken early game. But if you nerf its scaling she will be too weak as a champion. | ||
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AwayFromLife
United States441 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:31 Craton wrote: If cait gets built, she traps up the enemy tower and pokes it down from huge range. If someone steps on the trap, your team kills them. If someone tries to initiate onto her, she just e's to safety and you kill them. Try this next time: walk through the jungle behind a Cait. SHE CAN'T DO ANYTHING. Trist will jump over you, Ez will E past you or maybe just burst you with his full kit. Vayne/Kog will just kill you. Ashe will stun/slow you and run. Cait will try to bait you into traps you can avoid, then jump away 3 inches with E. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:34 AwayFromLife wrote: Try this next time: walk through the jungle behind a Cait. SHE CAN'T DO ANYTHING. Trist will jump over you, Ez will E past you or maybe just burst you with his full kit. Vayne/Kog will just kill you. Ashe will stun/slow you and run. Cait will try to bait you into traps you can avoid, then jump away 3 inches with E. Ok... I can see there's no reasoning with you. We get you don't like Cait. How about we leave it at that. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
Omg, I am trolling so hard with random every game now :D | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:29 AwayFromLife wrote: I mean, I never really use R as an initiator or a "gtfo" tool, but if I don't get a kill with it it feels wasted. My issue is that she can't carry like the other carries. If Vayne or Kog gets built fast, you win because they can dismantle any enemy in a few seconds. If Trist gets built, she can tear down towers in moments and her AoE is passive, so it clears so fast. If Ashe gets built, not only is her damage nice, but she's also still making your teamfights one sided. If Cait gets built, she can kind of kill turrets fast, but not as fast as Trist. She's not going to burst the enemy carry from full to dead in a snap like Vayne or Kog. She just kind of wins early game and then depends on the team to take advantage of it and go. That doesn't feel very "carry" to me. If you only use her R to finish off enemies, it's wasting your ult since it can be blocked and deny you a kill. Using it to poke is fine. You can even use it in lane to force the other person out of lane or deny them farm and zone them. Don't get so tunnel-visioned about its use. Don't let that Vayne or Koggy get farmed. If you're playing Cait right, they never should be. That's the whole point. Theoretical power of AD champions never matters. It's actual in-game power right now every time you fight that matters. If you're dominating your lane ultra hard, your team will win teamfights and snowball off them. If you want to play someone who just sits passively and farms and then suddenly dominates fights, you're playing the wrong champion. You carry by making the other team feel terrible and getting your farm on so your power level is always ahead of theirs. On October 05 2011 01:25 Craton wrote: Eventually (hopefully) they'll realize to nerf her attack range and buff her scaling, which will round her out as a decent champ that doesn't faceroll lane phase and then fall off later. Outt of curiosity, I searched up AD ratios on carries. Of course, the use of their skill is not included. This is more just for reference purposes.
On October 05 2011 01:37 Caphe wrote: On other news: In celebration of the China National Day, Tencent/Riot decide to give CN server all champions free for 2 days Oct.5 and Oct.6 and all lost forgiven for the same period. Omg, I am trolling so hard with random every game now :D Wut. For real? So jelly. | ||
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AwayFromLife
United States441 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:35 NeoIllusions wrote: Ok... I can see there's no reasoning with you. We get you don't like Cait. How about we leave it at that. Sorry, it was a bit unreasonably angry. I'm just asking why people consider her the best AD carry in the game when most carries do more damage or bring more utility. I just don't feel that (and you can extend this into any role) being strong in the early game matters much when you aren't as good 45 minutes in. Past a certain point, denying farm early on becomes inconsequential because you both get built eventually. And with the same items, she's just not in the same realm. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:37 Caphe wrote: On other news: In celebration of the China National Day, Tencent/Riot decide to give CN server all champions free for 2 days Oct.5 and Oct.6 and all lost forgiven for the same period. Omg, I am trolling so hard with random every game now :D I remember there was a weekend of all champions free around this time last year (literally the first week I started playing the game). Every game had 4-7 champions I didn't know the name of, much less know their abilities. That was fun  EDIT: Using Cait's ult only for kills is the same as using Lux's ult only for kills. Bad practice. But again - Cait has good AD scaling because her abilities are SO DAMN SLOW. The way the champion is designed, she has to have good scaling, which makes her so strong early. I disagree that a Cait can deny Kog farm; Kog should stay relatively even with Cait assuming supports and junglers are roughly even as well. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:39 AwayFromLife wrote: Sorry, it was a bit unreasonably angry. I'm just asking why people consider her the best AD carry in the game when most carries do more damage or bring more utility. I just don't feel that (and you can extend this into any role) being strong in the early game matters much when you aren't as good 45 minutes in. Past a certain point, denying farm early on becomes inconsequential because you both get built eventually. And with the same items, she's just not on in the same realm. 1) She's a bitch to lane against. If you never get farm, you're a useless carry. Cait denies you. 2) It's never about absolute power. It's all about how much power you have right here and now. If she never lets you catch up in items, why does late game power matter? 3) She sieges towers really well and pokes really well. 4) She's a bitch to lane against. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:32 AwayFromLife wrote: That's the thing. Two or three hits from Cait hurts, but three hits from Vayne might kill you and two hits from Kog with a Madreds can end carries. ONE hit from Ashe is enough to slow an escaping enemy and score a kill. The same timeframe gives a Trist with Q up twice as many (if not more) shots. 2 hits from kog with a madreds ends carries? so kog W+madreds=50%? The way you talk you simply dont understand AD carries, one hit from ashe isn't enough slow to get someone out of your face completely, carries aren't about killing other carries, carries are about doing the most dps to whatever doesn't get them killed. | ||
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
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AwayFromLife
United States441 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Cait's CC: Awesome. If enemies don't walk into your traps, you either get to autoattack freely for the whole duration of the fight, or you suck at placing them properly. Cait's lategame damage: Cait's passive is a 8.3% multiplier on her autoattack damage. That's not too bad. It's far from Trist Q, obviously. She deals significantly more damage than Ashe, also partly because of her higher range and the increased safety from W and E. And... winning your lane should default to having better items than your counterpart - which means more damage. If you can't translate an earlygame advantage into a mid/lategame advantage: don't blame the champion. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:50 AwayFromLife wrote: Whatever, I guess I'm just playing the wrong champion. I just think so many people jumped on the Cait bandwagon when that magazine came out and they used her in some tournaments, but imo she still pales in comparison to most AD carries in every aspect of the game but laning. Being strong in the first 10-15 minutes doesn't make up for her lacking elsewhere. But I'm out. That's kind of a dumb way to look at it. It's like saying jungling doesn't really do anything because you don't jungle in the late game. I mean, there are obviously bad late game champs like LeBlanc, but Cait isn't one of them. Just deny a whole lane, AoE teamfights with Q, and crush most of a healthbar with R once you get a BFS item. You don't want to attack the tanky types, but don't get so focused on killing the enemy carry that you die yourself. You never get in range of teamfights, so abuse it. Edit: l2position better if you're getting caught with no escape. Ganks are inevitable, but avoidable if you don't derp in a bad spot. Remember to use Traps both offensively to zone and defensively to secure areas. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Of course kits make a difference, they add unique flavor. Kog trades the ability to move and cc for tank killing power, trist and corki trade cc for mobility, ashe trades mobility for cc. However, in terms of the actual damage they deal, its really all broadly similar. The reason cait is considered the strongest ad carry in the game atm is that her kit makes up for the traditional ad early game struggles. She simply should NEVER lose a lane against a ranged ad, melee, or quite a few ap champs. Ease of farm and early game power is a huge determinant in a champions power curve, and much more important than late game power, for the simple reason that games ALWAYS start early, and may never reach late game. If there was a champ who got full build and power from killing 1 creep, they would be played every game over someone who got full build from killing 1 creep at 35 minutes into the game. Its an exaggeration, but the general principle is the same with cait. The ease of farm and lane domination, as well as a kit with modest escapability, and INCREDIBLE range allows her to have all of the advantages of a ranged carry with none of the disadvantages. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Believe me, no you're not jelly. They did that on UE last year, and it was painfull to play this week end. Games where full of bad twiches ( since he's never free ), and other high price champions who are horrible when played wrong. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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