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Depends on the jungler and laner. Lane super pushed? Go kill it. WW/Fiddle and ult up? Go ult someone.
Don't level 2 gank a lane that can't hope to kill something early on, since you wont even blow summoners.
You can level 3 gank after wraiths in the standard path with virtually no impact on your jungle clear ability. Don't level 3 gank if the near lanes are farming off tower, just continue with afk jungle farming.
Bot lane river warded? Come in from your tower into side bushes. Works for top, too.
Mid gank don't come from side bush, come from path near their tower. Infinitely easier to run from the first path. Almost every AP mid can 80-0 someone unassisted, so all you need is one CC and a little damage to get a kill.
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I feel that I'm pretty good at ganks, but more advice is always good :D
I dunno, jungling just seems so dull compared to laning. Unless there's a counter-jungle, I don't feel the same tension that's there when fighting and tug-of-warring in lane. Worth it later on though.
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Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked.
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Pretty much any combative lane is worth ganking, even if only to exert your presence so that your teammate gets free shots from the other guy not being able to fight back while you're there.
I sometimes ditch 1 round of wolves when my blue buff isn't up, in favor of more roaming, but I try to not miss a single twin golem respawn.
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On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked.
I've ran into that exact problem with Cait, where I get more farm than my lane counterpart (because i'm Cait) but ultimately have much less of an impact later on. She's like the AD version of Taric in this sense. The thing is, she is so utterly broken that at high levels of play, if you do not play Urgot or Kog (or possibly Ez but that's a stretch) you will not get any farm against a Cait.
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On October 05 2011 00:58 Requizen wrote:
I feel that I'm pretty good at ganks, but more advice is always good :D
I dunno, jungling just seems so dull compared to laning. Unless there's a counter-jungle, I don't feel the same tension that's there when fighting and tug-of-warring in lane. Worth it later on though.
when someone counter jungles i feel like afking
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked.
1) If you win lane and lock it down hard, you will have farm and damage and the other person won't. Therefore it doesn't matter if in absolute terms the other AD Carry has more utility than you if right now you're more scary. Cait should be taking that bottom tower and winning nearly all match ups bot lane. Once you're ahead, force teamfights and keep snowballing off that. If you're facing someone who is a late game terror, the whole point is to not let them ever get there. Cait does that well. For example, Vayne v Cait is just so bad for the Vayne.
2) Q clears waves fast and lets her push. R is a nice poke. You don't have to use it to finish someone off. Use it when sieging, make someone go home to heal, and now you have a 4v5.
3) Siege, siege, siege. Trap up that tower. If they come to stop you chipping away at it, they risk hitting a trap and now you can initiate on them. If they don't, you can wear down that tower.
4) Backdooring can be done by anyone. Cait can clear waves really fast thanks to Q AoE. That helps her split push better than most champions.
5) Having one of the longest autoattack ranges in the game means in fights you can sit back and shoot people without putting yourself in as much danger as other AD Carries. And if you've been farming right, you do a lot of damage.
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her passive is a steroid, her Q is burst, her e is escape, just need to position yourself well
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On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked.
Cait excels at standing on the extreme edge of teamfights and doing damage. In this regard she is one of the safest AD carries because of her long range and her escape. Late in the game she doesn't tend to get a lot of kills because of her very nature of her playstyle, however she still dishes out a respectable amount of damage as well as being difficult for assassins to jump her. But yes her strength is being one of the strongest laners and she relies on zoning out-farming her opponents, then carrying that advantage to the mid and late game.
When picking an AD carry you have to think about the trade-offs of each. Vayne brings raw damage but has relatively short range, kog maw has excellent damage and range, but has no escapes and needs strong peels, Ashe brings heaps of CC, cait excels at laning and standing at the outskirts of teamfights doing damage without exposing herself.
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I think Piltover Peacemaker is a pretty strong ability. Cait's presence in tower fights is pretty goddamn crazy.
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On October 05 2011 01:09 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked. I've ran into that exact problem with Cait, where I get more farm than my lane counterpart (because i'm Cait) but ultimately have much less of an impact later on. She's like the AD version of Taric in this sense. The thing is, she is so utterly broken that at high levels of play, if you do not play Urgot or Kog (or possibly Ez but that's a stretch) you will not get any farm against a Cait.
Well yeah, that's the dumb part though. She's like the opposite of a carry, almost. She goes from god-mode early/mid game because she just gets more stuff than anyone else, into blah late game because once items even out, she just can't keep up. Either her scaling needs to be better, or her end base damage or something, but right now I just feel like if your team doesn't dominate 100% and win you the game by 15-20 minutes, she falls into crap.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:13 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:09 Sandster wrote:On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked. I've ran into that exact problem with Cait, where I get more farm than my lane counterpart (because i'm Cait) but ultimately have much less of an impact later on. She's like the AD version of Taric in this sense. The thing is, she is so utterly broken that at high levels of play, if you do not play Urgot or Kog (or possibly Ez but that's a stretch) you will not get any farm against a Cait. Well yeah, that's the dumb part though. She's like the opposite of a carry, almost. She goes from god-mode early/mid game because she just gets more stuff than anyone else, into blah late game because once items even out, she just can't keep up. Either her scaling needs to be better, or her end base damage or something, but right now I just feel like if your team doesn't dominate 100% and win you the game by 15-20 minutes, she falls into crap.
Better scaling...? Cait has a 1.3 AD Ratio on Q and 2.0(!!) on her R. That's insane.
If you deny the enemy AD Carry that's good. If you're letting them free farm for 30 min later on and not pushing your advantage then you're doing something wrong. If you see them afk-free farming, go gank them and punish them. Push objectives. Cait is great at pushing and sieging. Take advantage of it. You need to play to the strengths of your champion.
Cait has an AoE with great scaling, CC/Area Denial, an escape move and an ult with one of the best poke+scaling in the game. Use those abilities.
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On October 05 2011 01:13 Lancer723 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked. Cait excels at standing on the extreme edge of teamfights and doing damage. In this regard she is one of the safest AD carries because of her long range and her escape. Late in the game she doesn't tend to get a lot of kills because of her very nature of her playstyle, however she still dishes out a respectable amount of damage as well as being difficult for assassins to jump her. But yes her strength is being one of the strongest laners and she relies on zoning out-farming her opponents, then carrying that advantage to the mid and late game. When picking an AD carry you have to think about the trade-offs of each. Vayne brings raw damage but has relatively short range, kog maw has excellent damage and range, but has no escapes and needs strong peels, Ashe brings heaps of CC, cait excels at laning and standing at the outskirts of teamfights doing damage without exposing herself.
As far as "standing on the outskirts" goes, it feels pretty useless. If you're fighting from max range, you just get to hit the tanky types like Lee Sin, Udyr, or, hell I don't know, Trynd or Irelia. You're not going to tear them down. You can't get into range of their carries for more than one or two hits without being focused into oblivion.
She's also way too damn squishy. I mean, I know all AD carries are, but hear me out. Kog and Vayne can be squishy because they can burst someone down before being bursted themselves. Ashe can be squishy because if she needs to run away, lolpermaslow and stun. She also never gets caught off guard thanks to Hawk. Trist has a mondo escape jump and a knockback
Cait needs to stand still and auto. Her E is a teenytiny jump that can't clear most walls and the slow is so short even if you do land it. Your only hope is to lead them through traps and hope they're bad enough not to side step them. If she gets jumped or focused in a fight, she can't burst down her attacker, she can't escape like Trist, and she can't CC them in any sort of consistent manner, so she just dies unless she's always (and I mean always) accompanied by a peeler or tanky type.
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On October 05 2011 01:21 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:13 Lancer723 wrote:On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked. Cait excels at standing on the extreme edge of teamfights and doing damage. In this regard she is one of the safest AD carries because of her long range and her escape. Late in the game she doesn't tend to get a lot of kills because of her very nature of her playstyle, however she still dishes out a respectable amount of damage as well as being difficult for assassins to jump her. But yes her strength is being one of the strongest laners and she relies on zoning out-farming her opponents, then carrying that advantage to the mid and late game. When picking an AD carry you have to think about the trade-offs of each. Vayne brings raw damage but has relatively short range, kog maw has excellent damage and range, but has no escapes and needs strong peels, Ashe brings heaps of CC, cait excels at laning and standing at the outskirts of teamfights doing damage without exposing herself. As far as "standing on the outskirts" goes, it feels pretty useless. If you're fighting from max range, you just get to hit the tanky types like Lee Sin, Udyr, or, hell I don't know, Trynd or Irelia. You're not going to tear them down. You can't get into range of their carries for more than one or two hits without being focused into oblivion. She's also way too damn squishy. I mean, I know all AD carries are, but hear me out. Kog and Vayne can be squishy because they can burst someone down before being bursted themselves. Ashe can be squishy because if she needs to run away, lolpermaslow and stun. She also never gets caught off guard thanks to Hawk. Trist has a mondo escape jump and a knockback Cait needs to stand still and auto. Her E is a teenytiny jump that can't clear most walls and the slow is so short even if you do land it. Your only hope is to lead them through traps and hope they're bad enough not to side step them. If she gets jumped or focused in a fight, she can't burst down her attacker, she can't escape like Trist, and she can't CC them in any sort of consistent manner, so she just dies unless she's always (and I mean always) accompanied by a peeler or tanky type.
Cait has traps, she has a net and 650 range, how the hell can you call her squishy. And calling her max range useless is really dumb, what makes you think any other carry can get into range of enemy carries for more than one or two hits but not cait. If you actually farmed, like you should've, you can wear down the tankies in front quite a bit if you have to.
Your argument about cait's range being useless doesn't make ANY sense at all.
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Eventually (hopefully) they'll realize to nerf her attack range and buff her scaling, which will round her out as a decent champ that doesn't faceroll lane phase and then fall off later.
On October 05 2011 01:21 AwayFromLife wrote:
As far as "standing on the outskirts" goes, it feels pretty useless. If you're fighting from max range, you just get to hit the tanky types like Lee Sin, Udyr, or, hell I don't know, Trynd or Irelia. You're not going to tear them down. You can't get into range of their carries for more than one or two hits without being focused into oblivion.
Welcome to ranged AD. That's how you play them.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:21 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:13 Lancer723 wrote:On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked. Cait excels at standing on the extreme edge of teamfights and doing damage. In this regard she is one of the safest AD carries because of her long range and her escape. Late in the game she doesn't tend to get a lot of kills because of her very nature of her playstyle, however she still dishes out a respectable amount of damage as well as being difficult for assassins to jump her. But yes her strength is being one of the strongest laners and she relies on zoning out-farming her opponents, then carrying that advantage to the mid and late game. When picking an AD carry you have to think about the trade-offs of each. Vayne brings raw damage but has relatively short range, kog maw has excellent damage and range, but has no escapes and needs strong peels, Ashe brings heaps of CC, cait excels at laning and standing at the outskirts of teamfights doing damage without exposing herself. As far as "standing on the outskirts" goes, it feels pretty useless. If you're fighting from max range, you just get to hit the tanky types like Lee Sin, Udyr, or, hell I don't know, Trynd or Irelia. You're not going to tear them down. You can't get into range of their carries for more than one or two hits without being focused into oblivion. She's also way too damn squishy. I mean, I know all AD carries are, but hear me out. Kog and Vayne can be squishy because they can burst someone down before being bursted themselves. Ashe can be squishy because if she needs to run away, lolpermaslow and stun. She also never gets caught off guard thanks to Hawk. Trist has a mondo escape jump and a knockback Cait needs to stand still and auto. Her E is a teenytiny jump that can't clear most walls and the slow is so short even if you do land it. Your only hope is to lead them through traps and hope they're bad enough not to side step them. If she gets jumped or focused in a fight, she can't burst down her attacker, she can't escape like Trist, and she can't CC them in any sort of consistent manner, so she just dies unless she's always (and I mean always) accompanied by a peeler or tanky type.
As an AD carry, you always go for whoever you can hit safely. Trading yourself for someone else is nearly always never a good trade since your team loses the majority of their dps. Your longer autoattack range lets you hit things safer than others. If it means hitting the tank, then do it. If you were, say, an Ashe in the same position you'd be doing the same thing too. Also, someone should be babysitting you at all times anyway. That should be the case for any AD Carry, not just Caitlyn.
AD Carries by nature are supposed to be the late-game right-click and everything dies champions. Cait has the advantage of being able to get to that power status faster than other AD Carries and making it harder for other carries to get there. You have net as an escape move that can wall jump (it's as good as Nidalee!) and traps for mid-fight CC too. You need to be tactical about their use.
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Why are we even entertaining the idea that Caitlyn is a weak ranged AD...?
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United States37500 Posts
Not sure why anyone consider Cait weaker late game. Play her properly and you shutdown the enemy carry. Their AD shouldn't be able to match your items. Peacemaker is just silly in sieges.
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On October 05 2011 01:16 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On October 05 2011 01:09 Sandster wrote:On October 05 2011 01:04 AwayFromLife wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Cait is terrible past laning?
Yes, she wins lane 99% of the time with zoning and what not, but seriously. She brings nothing to team fights. No CC, no burst, no support-ish spells. Her traps are only good if the enemy is stupid enough to walk into them and your teammates notice it. Her Ult is only there to pick off stragglers. She can't 1v1, and her escape is horrid for the most part.
Kog and Vayne do more damage. Ashe has more support and utility. Trist does more damage and can backdoor like a whore, plus better escape. Urgot has utility, higher damage, and a pretty damn good shield. Even Ezreal I feel is more viable late game, with his burst, global ult, and mobility.
I just don't see it with Cait. You auto attack with no steroid, so the damage is only ok for a carry, and then try to Ult someone who runs, hoping it kills them or doesn't get blocked. I've ran into that exact problem with Cait, where I get more farm than my lane counterpart (because i'm Cait) but ultimately have much less of an impact later on. She's like the AD version of Taric in this sense. The thing is, she is so utterly broken that at high levels of play, if you do not play Urgot or Kog (or possibly Ez but that's a stretch) you will not get any farm against a Cait. Well yeah, that's the dumb part though. She's like the opposite of a carry, almost. She goes from god-mode early/mid game because she just gets more stuff than anyone else, into blah late game because once items even out, she just can't keep up. Either her scaling needs to be better, or her end base damage or something, but right now I just feel like if your team doesn't dominate 100% and win you the game by 15-20 minutes, she falls into crap. Better scaling...? Cait has a 1.3 AD Ratio on Q and 2.0(!!) on her R. That's insane. If you deny the enemy AD Carry that's good. If you're letting them free farm for 30 min later on and not pushing your advantage then you're doing something wrong. If you see them afk-free farming, go gank them and punish them. Push objectives. Cait is great at pushing and sieging. Take advantage of it. You need to play to the strengths of your champion. Cait has an AoE with great scaling, CC/Area Denial, an escape move and an ult with one of the best poke+scaling in the game. Use those abilities.
I mean, I never really use R as an initiator or a "gtfo" tool, but if I don't get a kill with it it feels wasted.
My issue is that she can't carry like the other carries. If Vayne or Kog gets built fast, you win because they can dismantle any enemy in a few seconds. If Trist gets built, she can tear down towers in moments and her AoE is passive, so it clears so fast. If Ashe gets built, not only is her damage nice, but she's also still making your teamfights one sided.
If Cait gets built, she can kind of kill turrets fast, but not as fast as Trist. She's not going to burst the enemy carry from full to dead in a snap like Vayne or Kog. She just kind of wins early game and then depends on the team to take advantage of it and go. That doesn't feel very "carry" to me.
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EPT
