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On August 09 2011 23:54 Haemonculus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:38 Shikyo wrote:On August 09 2011 23:21 Haemonculus wrote:On August 09 2011 23:13 Shikyo wrote:On August 09 2011 23:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything. I don't think that's true... quite a lot of champions solotop not only beats kayle but scale way harder with the gold. And the itembuild itself it doesn't even make sense on kayle because where exactly in her toolkit does it state that it would be cost-effective to get 65 armor reduction + another 50 armor pen >.>. You might as well throw all that stuff on caitlyn. Cos her passive shreds 15% total armor it's most efficient to go for flat armor reduction and penetration. It's surprisingly powerful. =P 15% after 5 consecutive attacks. Do you think it'll be really noticeable? Hmmmm so if you have 50 flat ar-pen as mentioned, against an enemy with 100 armor you'd be dealing damage vs 35 armor instead of 50, which isn't bad. If they had 200 armor you'd be dealing damage against 120 armor instead of 150. So... is that really good? Still seems like a very small damage% increase to me, but I might be totally wrong. But this is still after 5 consecutive attacks, yes? Wouldn't another ranged carry with comparable farm outright kill most champs after landing that many uncontested autos? Well, the ranged carries might be stronger, I still think that that kind of a build is the way to go. Vs a 200 armor target, with full apen runes and masteries you have 31 apen from those, 30 from passive, 45 from cleaver, 30 from sotd, 20 from youmu, 20 Starks, and so a 200 armor target only has 24 effective armor against you. Not to mention that the 95 armor reduction you get is going to be usable by your entire team and not just you. It also is going to put squishys into negative armor, assuming they last for 5+ hits. On August 09 2011 23:33 GiygaS wrote:
I'm having a problem with leaning against AP More with Hextech. Any tips? Call for ganks, that's his biggest weakness because he has no escape summoners and is almost forced to push. Yes but you could stack those runes/items on anyone in theory. Kayle only gives you the extra 15% shred. The more flat-pen you have, the less effective your %-based shred is, right? Or does shred happen first? So much armorpen does sound fun though!
% shred is very first, and aspd synergizes with her E and she's got invulnerability and speed buff to kite better. Of course those items work for anyone, but she has a 15% armor shred advantage so it works better for her
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i dont get why they now show akali and corki's R cooldown, but not teemos shrooms or heimers turrets. theyll prob do it in a few patches, but why not now 
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err you guys are doing bad math.
Penetration does flat pen first then %.
IE if you have 50% reduction in armor and 50 flat armor pen then against a target with 100 armor you would do be doing damage against 25 armor
100 - 50 (flat) = 50 * 0.5 (50%) = 25
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reduction and penetration work at different timings. % reduction, to the best of my knowledge applies before flat reduction, and I'm 100% sure it applies before all penetration. % penetration on the other hand happens after all reductions and after flat penetration.
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Here's a question I have. How effective is a Heimerdinger turret in messing up an opponent's jungle? I've done this a few times in games by placing a turret in the brush between red buff and golems (have not experimented with the brush next to golems since I speculate it will pull them, need to try this however). The point is to keep the turret here (i.e. not use it in lane) until they have to run by it, which causes them to take damage they aren't used to taking (it has netted me a first blood once or twice) which can really mess up some junglers ability to continue, while also providing free scouting of them.
You risk a few things by doing this, the most obvious being having to walk deep into their jungle early on, but if you plan to wraith-jack too this isn't too out of the way but you also lose that turret in lane for the first few minutes which can make you quite vulnerable.
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On August 10 2011 02:53 Mogwai wrote:
reduction and penetration work at different timings. % reduction, to the best of my knowledge applies before flat reduction, and I'm 100% sure it applies before all penetration. % penetration on the other hand happens after all reductions and after flat penetration.
I forgot to include that shred comes first (like black cleaver / starks / Kayle)
edit: nvm i see what you're saying. I don't know if % shred and flat shred are appied in a difference order than penetration.
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from the wiki
When attacking, armor penetration and armor reduction are applied to the target champion's armor in the following order:
1. Percentage Armor Reduction
2. Flat Armor Reduction
3. Flat Armor Penetration
4. Percentage Armor Penetration
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I was laning jax (with ignite) vs fiddle (with clarity)solo top. How do I beat him? Engage him at his creeps with drain and hope I get lucky with dodge??
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On August 10 2011 02:59 cascades wrote:
I was laning jax (with ignite) vs fiddle (with clarity)solo top. How do I beat him? Engage him at his creeps with drain and hope I get lucky with dodge??
Its probably safer to not engage at all unless u have a stun proc. Then when you do engage you want to fight him with creeps around so you can interrupt his drain.
That said, Fiddle is pretty good at 1v1 due to the large amount of CC he carries. However, if you're lvl 6+ as Jax, you should really have no problem 1v1 against pretty much anybody.
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Just put Jarman with Nasus and Corki on the same team; nobody has any armor yay :D
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On August 10 2011 02:51 Phrost wrote:
err you guys are doing bad math.
Penetration does flat pen first then %.
IE if you have 50% reduction in armor and 50 flat armor pen then against a target with 100 armor you would do be doing damage against 25 armor
100 - 50 (flat) = 50 * 0.5 (50%) = 25
Of course, but we're talking about reduction, not penetration.
Oh and from everywhere I've read that % reduction comes before flat reduction, I'm pretty sure that's correct because back when they did the swaparoo patch for penetration it said nothing about reduction
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On August 10 2011 03:16 Juicyfruit wrote:
Just put Jarman with Nasus and Corki on the same team; nobody has any armor yay :D
also Taric.
Jarman rush Starks, Corki rush Cleaver, kk, gg negative armor.
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On August 09 2011 12:30 zer0das wrote:
The Garen changes are perplexing. Used to have to decide whether to dump more into courage or not, now there's not much reason to until later except in a few specific circumstances. He didn't really need an extra second of speed either. Meanwhile his damage is kind of meh late in the game, still a bit strong early.
I suppose the end result is his early game is even stronger now, but he still has pretty much the same late game issues.
and thus goes the riot balance cycle. champ op? overnerf him for a few months. underplayed now? we'll buff him right back up pre-nerf status. iirc his courage used to be a one-point wonder, then they broke it down into increments, now its back to a one-point wonder again
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Courage has always had incremented max cap.
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On August 10 2011 03:32 Simple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 12:30 zer0das wrote:
The Garen changes are perplexing. Used to have to decide whether to dump more into courage or not, now there's not much reason to until later except in a few specific circumstances. He didn't really need an extra second of speed either. Meanwhile his damage is kind of meh late in the game, still a bit strong early.
I suppose the end result is his early game is even stronger now, but he still has pretty much the same late game issues. and thus goes the riot balance cycle. champ op? overnerf him for a few months. underplayed now? we'll buff him right back up pre-nerf status. iirc his courage used to be a one-point wonder, then they broke it down into increments, now its back to a one-point wonder again
Nah they would never do that. Just look at Panth. Oh, wait...
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Way to ignore Nidalee. 40% Armor reduction.
Seriously, hit that trap on an enemy anti-carry, add exhaust and flat APen and your AD will tear him to pieces in no time.
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Nobody, cause you're playing normals with me.
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Don't ban anything, let the game be decided by who can use the OP champs better.
BAM.
The game is balanced around skill now.
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EPT
