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On August 09 2011 12:07 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 12:04 arnath wrote:
Nasus is still going to be indefinitely kiteable by almost any ranged hero. that's just simply not true at high levels now though just think about him with ANY cdr. wither level 5 up 50% of the time? enjoy your day, ranged carry
Any Nasus player that is actually good at him stacks CDR anyway so you'll have close to CDR gap, so 11 second whither with 40% CDR means almost 100% uptime of whither. Lol. On no tenacity target 5 second whither 6.6 second cooldown. Wat.
On August 09 2011 16:26 mercurial wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 16:22 Ryuu314 wrote:
Wait wait...why is Nasus suddenly so strong now?
Yea sure whither got buffed, but i feel like that's more a fix than anything tbh. his E has more burst, but it's still really not all that much dps and still will be mana-inefficient for farming not to even mention harassing, at least in early levels. the passive buff is nice, but honestly 4% increase for the early levels means you're healing like 10-20 hp more per Q and barely anything more for autos.
I dont think he's anywhere as OP as some people are making out.
I'm more worried about Panth and Garen tbh. Maybe Tryn and Yorick for their buffs, but even then it's kinda minor. Morgana got a nice buff to stats, not sure about her ult, but she's still in the same place as she was before. I played him against Chogath yesterday, Chogath massed armor had about 200 and just the dmg from Q was enough to take him down, Nasus is just another tanky DPS that just got buffed into viability like many have been before. The Q gets incredibly strong lategame and now his early game has been buffed to make it easier to get to the lategame in good shape. And of course the cooldown on the slow is quite helpful seeing that 15 seconds is quite a long time in between casts.
Nasus rapes chogath though once he gets some damage. Everyone essentially pisses on chogath in solo top now. Udyr, irelia, jarvan, yorick, ww, rumble all pwn him. Gangplank straight up kills him from level 2 until he gets like 200 armour. Nasus has imba sustain damage without items so he actually does better when the game goes later and chogath gets armour.
If the whither buff is as good as I think it is I'll keep him as my most played champion in ranked. He still gets raped by AP carries and AD carries when he doesn't whither them but thats why you build basically pure tank + CDR + sheen or something.
People like Garen just totally deny Nasus from level 2, though. The life steal buff might mean you can still hold versus harass based people like rumble and lanewick and yorick.
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if i'm getting countered on amumu i'll rush a madreds razors thing
problem solved... without hte blue i'll clear camps too slow and be OOM all the time but with the razors i can actually do stuff because the other jungler won't catch me taking 5 years doing each camp
this probably sounds retarded, but not like i ever play him in serious games, half the time i'll end up building him AP anyways + i never gank and it just makes my life easier
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how the fuck can bredder have 370 viewers.. I lost all faith in humanity
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So they DID nerf Fiddle. With no effect.
I hate it.
So... I'm on the US client (or rather, the client is set to US), click "Read more" just below the "unavailable". It sends me to the EU West server status page. Cool stuff, it really helps me to see that EU West is up.
I switch to the US version of the page. Click server status. I get sent to the EU West server status page. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
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On August 09 2011 21:50 spinesheath wrote:
So they DID nerf Fiddle. With no effect.
I hate it.
So... I'm on the US client (or rather, the client is set to US), click "Read more" just below the "unavailable". It sends me to the EU West server status page. Cool stuff, it really helps me to see that EU West is up.
I switch to the US version of the page. Click server status. I get sent to the EU West server status page. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
hehe
I LoLd 
poor little spines
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On August 09 2011 14:32 BlackPaladin wrote:
I'm sure Kayle's 5% more armor/MR shred after 5 attacks will perfectly balance her. Now she's balanced to, what? Pre-patch panth? lol
My friend played Kayle and built Black Cleaver, Starks, Youmu, SotD and he at least destroyed the entire enemy team by himself
On August 09 2011 16:34 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 16:26 mercurial wrote:On August 09 2011 16:22 Ryuu314 wrote:
Wait wait...why is Nasus suddenly so strong now?
Yea sure whither got buffed, but i feel like that's more a fix than anything tbh. his E has more burst, but it's still really not all that much dps and still will be mana-inefficient for farming not to even mention harassing, at least in early levels. the passive buff is nice, but honestly 4% increase for the early levels means you're healing like 10-20 hp more per Q and barely anything more for autos.
I dont think he's anywhere as OP as some people are making out.
I'm more worried about Panth and Garen tbh. Maybe Tryn and Yorick for their buffs, but even then it's kinda minor. Morgana got a nice buff to stats, not sure about her ult, but she's still in the same place as she was before. I played him against Chogath yesterday, Chogath massed armor had about 200 and just the dmg from Q was enough to take him down, Nasus is just another tanky DPS that just got buffed into viability like many have been before. The Q gets incredibly strong lategame and now his early game has been buffed to make it easier to get to the lategame in good shape. And of course the cooldown on the slow is quite helpful seeing that 15 seconds is quite a long time in between casts. He had always been incredibly strong lategame once farmed. It's always been this way and it's not changing. His early-mid game is his weakness; always has been and it still is. It's still going to be inefficient to farm with E cause of Nasus's small mana pool and E's large cost. The vamp buff will help, but I feel it's more of a bump to help Nasus be able to stand up to the retarded amounts of sustain already present in top lane. Even then, it's still way subpar compared to Udyr or Yorick or some of those other guys. The slow buff is really good, I won't deny that, but it only prevents ONE target from running/fully dpsing, which will probably be the enemy range AD. Even then, Nasus has no gapcloser other than that slow and will still get peeled and kited easily. He suffers from Udyr syndrome in his ability to be kited and peeled.
You obviously aren't going to be farming with E, but combined with the fact that W reaches full slow even vs mercs, it's going to be a gigantic death circle, especially with 200+ instant damage and the insane armor reduction. You're guaranteed to get a double Q off during the wither vs your lane opponent and that should hurt.
His early laning with the buffs is going to be insane. Maybe not lvl 1 specifically, but as Nasus usually stays away from minions until he lasthits with auto-> Q animation cancel combination, and that combination even at champion level 3 now heals him for like 27 hp per lasthit and it's only going to heal more as he gains Q stacks.
After a certain point, Nasus will actually crush just about every lane opponent with Wither E Q combinations. If you've been lasthitting decently well with Q(And it's not difficult at all given the dmg it deals), you can actually nearly force the enemy off the lane with that after lvl 9+ or so. Especially melees are going to cry if they take 400 dmg a hit every time they move close enough to lasthit.
Another thing this buff gives him is a reliable finisher. 200+ damage is really good for just a finishing strike, I've gotten numerous finisher lasthits even with the old E.
His wither cooldown and buff vs mercs makes it so that he in fact can't be infinitely kited anymore by even Ashe, he just needs to survive long enough, but Ashe can't really even fight back when Withered.
Siphoning Strike becomes absolutely insane when you get complete freefarm solo top and get some mana regen and cdr(I love rushing Shyrelyas Reverie on Nasus but I'm probably the only person). At 20 minutes I've had Q be at +441 damage or so, and that already is absolutely insane damage without any items. You don't even really need apen because E has such crazy armor reduction.
I guess you can go full tank with 40% CDR for maximum Q spammage. Something like Shurelyas, Frozen Heart, FoN etc.
On August 09 2011 21:50 spinesheath wrote:
So they DID nerf Fiddle. With no effect.
I hate it.
So... I'm on the US client (or rather, the client is set to US), click "Read more" just below the "unavailable". It sends me to the EU West server status page. Cool stuff, it really helps me to see that EU West is up.
I switch to the US version of the page. Click server status. I get sent to the EU West server status page. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Yeah, the Fiddle nerf is hilarious. They actually BUFFED his laning with a better animation and with E having one more bounce(and it already was completely insane as a harrass)
On August 09 2011 22:41 Juicyfruit wrote:
Well that's only 11k gold worth of items with boots.
I like this patch. I hope they keep buffing champions like this. Champions should be strong and unique in their respective roles not be more or less the same with slightly different damage/utility/damage mitigation/range.
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything.
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Well that's only 11k gold worth of items with boots.
I like this patch. I hope they keep buffing champions like this. Champions should be strong and unique in their respective roles not be more or less the same with slightly different damage/utility/damage mitigation/range.
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Nice Pantheon buffs.
I will enjoy roflstomping lanes like never before.
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On August 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything.
I don't think that's true... quite a lot of champions solotop not only beats kayle but scale way harder with the gold.
And the itembuild itself it doesn't even make sense on kayle because where exactly in her toolkit does it state that it would be cost-effective to get 65 armor reduction + another 50 armor pen >.>. You might as well throw all that stuff on caitlyn.
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Did Nasus need a buff though? He's already ridiculously boring to lane against. Ignores you and just farms all day, then late game right clicks on people, hits Q or R occasionally, and things explode. Also insta-cast and insta-damage spirit fire is going to be really strong imo.
Mayyyybe he could get kited a little too easily but ugh, I think he was plenty strong. R + ghost = 15 seconds of godmode.
edit: KING TRYNDAMERE buffs also not necessary, but he's like my favorite champ atm so yay!
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On August 09 2011 23:03 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything. I don't think that's true... quite a lot of champions solotop not only beats kayle but scale way harder with the gold. And the itembuild itself it doesn't even make sense on kayle because where exactly in her toolkit does it state that it would be cost-effective to get 65 armor reduction + another 50 armor pen >.>. You might as well throw all that stuff on caitlyn.
Cos her passive shreds 15% total armor it's most efficient to go for flat armor reduction and penetration.
It's surprisingly powerful. =P
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On August 09 2011 23:13 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything. I don't think that's true... quite a lot of champions solotop not only beats kayle but scale way harder with the gold. And the itembuild itself it doesn't even make sense on kayle because where exactly in her toolkit does it state that it would be cost-effective to get 65 armor reduction + another 50 armor pen >.>. You might as well throw all that stuff on caitlyn. Cos her passive shreds 15% total armor it's most efficient to go for flat armor reduction and penetration. It's surprisingly powerful. =P
15% after 5 consecutive attacks. Do you think it'll be really noticeable?
Hmmmm so if you have 50 flat ar-pen as mentioned, against an enemy with 100 armor you'd be dealing damage vs 35 armor instead of 50, which isn't bad. If they had 200 armor you'd be dealing damage against 120 armor instead of 150. So... is that really good? Still seems like a very small damage% increase to me, but I might be totally wrong. But this is still after 5 consecutive attacks, yes?
Wouldn't another ranged carry with comparable farm outright kill most champs after landing that many uncontested autos?
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On August 09 2011 23:13 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything. I don't think that's true... quite a lot of champions solotop not only beats kayle but scale way harder with the gold. And the itembuild itself it doesn't even make sense on kayle because where exactly in her toolkit does it state that it would be cost-effective to get 65 armor reduction + another 50 armor pen >.>. You might as well throw all that stuff on caitlyn. Cos her passive shreds 15% total armor it's most efficient to go for flat armor reduction and penetration. It's surprisingly powerful. =P
Well let's see.. first you have the starks and the black cleaver shred 65 armor
THEN you apply 15% armor reduction, so vs a tank of 165 armor you are shredding 15 armor with 5 stacks of your passive.
And then you apply the 50 armor pen to whatever's left, but that can't go below zero.
I don't find this to be a very fitting use of the passive -_-
Not to mention all her skills do magic damage except her autoattacks.
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On August 09 2011 23:21 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:13 Shikyo wrote:On August 09 2011 23:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything. I don't think that's true... quite a lot of champions solotop not only beats kayle but scale way harder with the gold. And the itembuild itself it doesn't even make sense on kayle because where exactly in her toolkit does it state that it would be cost-effective to get 65 armor reduction + another 50 armor pen >.>. You might as well throw all that stuff on caitlyn. Cos her passive shreds 15% total armor it's most efficient to go for flat armor reduction and penetration. It's surprisingly powerful. =P Well let's see.. first you have the starks and the black cleaver shred 65 armor THEN you apply 15% armor reduction, so vs a tank of 165 armor you are shredding 15 armor with 5 stacks of your passive. And then you apply the 50 armor pen to whatever's left, but that can't go below zero. I don't find this to be a very fitting use of the passive -_- Not to mention all her skills do magic damage except her autoattacks.
% Reduction comes before Flat Reduction when doing these sorts of calculations. The order of operations is:
Percentage Armor Reduction
Flat Armor Reduction
Flat Armor Penetration
Percentage Armor Penetration
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I'm having a problem with leaning against AP More with Hextech. Any tips?
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Loci #1 council member. Gets all his champions buffed like a boss with persuasion and reasoning skills. Must be perfect timing to do it when he's back to playing.
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On August 09 2011 23:21 Haemonculus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 23:13 Shikyo wrote:On August 09 2011 23:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:
Not like he wouldn't do anything even before every item is finished, that actually is a pretty nice buildup and should be useful even before it's completely finished. Even so, 11k worth of items should only take like 30 minutes for solotop Kayle, as she should have no problems freefarming against anything. I don't think that's true... quite a lot of champions solotop not only beats kayle but scale way harder with the gold. And the itembuild itself it doesn't even make sense on kayle because where exactly in her toolkit does it state that it would be cost-effective to get 65 armor reduction + another 50 armor pen >.>. You might as well throw all that stuff on caitlyn. Cos her passive shreds 15% total armor it's most efficient to go for flat armor reduction and penetration. It's surprisingly powerful. =P 15% after 5 consecutive attacks. Do you think it'll be really noticeable? Hmmmm so if you have 50 flat ar-pen as mentioned, against an enemy with 100 armor you'd be dealing damage vs 35 armor instead of 50, which isn't bad. If they had 200 armor you'd be dealing damage against 120 armor instead of 150. So... is that really good? Still seems like a very small damage% increase to me, but I might be totally wrong. But this is still after 5 consecutive attacks, yes? Wouldn't another ranged carry with comparable farm outright kill most champs after landing that many uncontested autos?
Well, the ranged carries might be stronger, I still think that that kind of a build is the way to go. Vs a 200 armor target, with full apen runes and masteries you have 31 apen from those, 30 from passive, 45 from cleaver, 30 from sotd, 20 from youmu, 20 Starks, and so a 200 armor target only has 24 effective armor against you. Not to mention that the 95 armor reduction you get is going to be usable by your entire team and not just you. It also is going to put squishys into negative armor, assuming they last for 5+ hits.
On August 09 2011 23:33 GiygaS wrote:
I'm having a problem with leaning against AP More with Hextech. Any tips?
Call for ganks, that's his biggest weakness because he has no escape skills* and is almost forced to push.
Hey my bad, I typed summoners by accident <_<
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Mb I have only heard of flat before percent, but even then up to now the percent reduction have been bugged to work on base armor only so the synergy with the passive is definitely not doing much.
And again, if you really want someone to be running around bringing peoples armor down, there are better ways to do it because having to devote 5 attacks to a target with high armor before you get the full effect sounds really bad unless overfed to the point where it doesn't matter.
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On August 09 2011 12:36 Mogwai wrote:
god, they're such idiots. Pantheon way too strong. used to be 1 strike per .36 seconds, now it's 1 strike per .25 seconds. Does more base damage/hit across the board, and scales WAY harder, hence absurd DPS now compared to before.
Q is tweaked to be stronger earlier with AD stacking, weaker later, but probably just a net buff overall with the crit when low.
W now better at level 1 which is all that matters because they just made it the easiest skill in the entire fucking world to leave at level 1.
real fucking idiots, he'll be perma ban within 12 hours.
assuming my math isnt as terrible as i thought
doesnt 1 tick of pantheons E now do as much damage as the full duration of it pre buff?
isnt that a little.. imbalanced?
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I think what they want is for kayle to be an offensive supporty thing. Drop speed boosts and shield people, throw a slow at someone, all the while using e and autoattacks to spread the armor reduction.
Problem is her ratios are shit so you cant actually get better at doing any of that stuff. And her gameplay doenst make her feel like a support, it makes you feel like an ad carry in terms of playstyle, only doing minimal damage, minimal sustain and utility (outside of ult of course). So basically you end up doing a few different things, but none of them well.
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EPT
