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On July 19 2011 17:12 spinesheath wrote:
Why are HP/lvl seals higher priority than flat armor for you?
If I was buying runes, I'd want my first 9 seals to be useful on as many heroes as possible. Flat armor is a situational use while HP/lvl is never bad to run on any hero.
On July 20 2011 00:38 arthur wrote:
Dodge seals scale really well into late game, and are essentially with certain champions. If you know you are going to be getting armour, ie you plan Randuins or Atmas, dodge will be better than flat armour.
If your playing Jax/Udyr, dodge is better.
TBH i think dodge needs a mention on your seals.
For marks, yeah. Flat armour/flat mag res is nice for champs like Taric/Shen, as a last resort when you don't need anything else....
For glyphs.. You, and many other people, missed off Mana regen per/level. 18 mana regen/level runes on champions like kayle/anivia shits on cd/ap.
Also, on some situations where you need to be taking armour/dodge seals over mana regen, you can still get your 9 regen blues.
I explained my point on dodge earlier. At 820 a piece as well as being pretty niche and having alternatives I don't feel that they are a high priority at all to get. Flat armor is purely for lane phase and is taken purely to be strong in lane early without consideration to late game.
I find that the mana items + blue buff are good enough to warrant me avoiding mana regen runes. I like flat mana regen yellows since it really strengthens your harrass at a low level like in a Brand v Melee Sustain top solo matchup. Any of the mana regen/lvl just are not that useful anymore imo. Before Philo became dirt cheap, manamune, and tear buff I used to love running a bunch of regen but it's not necessary anymore.
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On July 20 2011 02:43 mrgerry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 17:12 spinesheath wrote:
Why are HP/lvl seals higher priority than flat armor for you? If I was buying runes, I'd want my first 9 seals to be useful on as many heroes as possible. Flat armor is a situational use while HP/lvl is never bad to run on any hero.
I use flat armor on pretty much every runepage I have except for like 1 page where I have MP5L seals. I wouldn't call them situational. A lot of early laning can be decided by minion/autoattack damage.
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Ah, but HP/level still does its part in helping survive early game damage, while far outstripping the armor runes later on. If you're up against strictly physical damage, then 13 armor is going to make a world of difference. However, considering that the characters who deal strictly physical damage can have up to 31 flat armor pen to start with, your armor runes might just end up feeding their armor pen rune efficiency until you gain enough from your innate armor growth to compensate.
If you're up against a combination of magic and physical damage, then the armor will help you take less damage, but it would not be as significant anymore.
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Between Hardiness and Armor Seals almost every champion in the game can have more than 31 Armor at level 1. You don't have to wait long at all for your normal stat growth to bring you to that point.
Health per Level Seals technically help during laning, but not by much. Even if you're mostly taking magic damage a single auto attack can put Armor Seals ahead. Health per Level Seals are a choice for a stronger late game.
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Well what I mean is, you're spending 13 seals on armor that will get mostly penetrated, when you could start with less and it wouldn't really matter since armor pen can't bring it past zero.
i.e. Having 35 armor - 31 = 4effective armor, whereas if you ditched hardiness and armor seals you'll only be down to 0 armor anyways.
On the flipside, it's really popular these days to do AD quints and armor pen marks, so you're only look at an average of 15 armor pen, and you can really get the full value out of the armor runes. This would be a great use of armor yellows if you're going against an enemy with strictly physical attacks and spells, but it's not really something that happens every game.
On July 20 2011 04:41 Seuss wrote:
Health per Level Seals technically help during laning, but not by much. Even if you're mostly taking magic damage a single auto attack can put Armor Seals ahead.
Not quite. Assuming you're bringing your armor from 0 to 13 (idealization), you reduce physical damage by 12%, so that 60 damage autoattack becomes 52.
HP per level can keep up better and better as the laning phase goes on, granting an additional 10HP per level, and unless you have absolutely no regen and are getting crushed at level 1 by autoattacks (your own fault), you really don't lose a whole lot from favoring HP/level.
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On July 19 2011 13:06 Abenson wrote:
A guide that I really needed!
Good guide :3
quotin this... thanks~ i too was just about to post asking for help on how to buy runes until I saw this.
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for AP TF, when getting blue runes, should i get CD or AP runes?
also what are the best quints for AP TF?
my red and yellow would be mpen and mana regen cause the other ones dont really benefit me
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My main reason for Armor seals would be that those actually do at least something for EVERY champ, including junglers. If you go for HP/lvl first, you won't be able to jungle properly with a bunch of champs.
That and they are cheap.
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Spud you failed to mention the best runes in the game.
HP/5/level yellows 
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What is the general opinion on Flat armour quints? Having three of these plus full flat armour yellows starts me off with 60ish armour in lane, which makes laning against either A. an AD carry or B. Dps characters much easier imo.
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On July 20 2011 17:30 57 Corvette wrote:
What is the general opinion on Flat armour quints? Having three of these plus full flat armour yellows starts me off with 60ish armour in lane, which makes laning against either A. an AD carry or B. Dps characters much easier imo.
I stole the idea from Southlight, but I run an entire armor page against some AD lanes as some characters. It's hilarious when their autoattack does about as much as a tank minion hit.
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flat armor quints are great choice for junglers too
amumu and nunu come to mind
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On July 20 2011 20:56 locodoco wrote:
flat armor quints are great choice for junglers too
amumu and nunu come to mind
wouldn't dodge seals be better for the sad mummy? You are going to get armor on the little dude in any case so wouldn't dodge simply scale better?
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i use dodge seals with flat armor quints on mummy :3
dodge bit iffy on mumu since his E works based on getting hit
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I run dodge yellows on nearly everyone (I generally run armor yellows on junglers), but for those who rune on a per-champion basis:
Champions with innate dodge (can therefore stack dodge as a reliable source of damage mitigation):
-Sivir - while moving
-Udyr - after switching stances
-Nidalee - while in cougar form
Champions who benefit from avoiding attacks:
-Miss Fortune - loses speed passive after being struck
-Teemo - loses speed passive after being struck
-Pantheon - loses shield passive after being struck (better used for tower hits)
-Malphite - passive shield regeneration time resets after being struck
-Garen - loses health regeneration passive after being struck
-Stealth champions - being struck delays stealth fade time
-Champions with mobility boots - being struck puts you into combat, lowering your speed
-Champions with Nimbleness mastery - the 2% from evasion is not enough to reliably proc
Champions who want to be hit (should not take dodge):
-Rammus - returns damage when hit during defensive ball curl
-Amumu - tantrum cooldown shortened when hit
-Galio - bulwark heal and idol of durand damage based on number of attacks suffered
-Champions with randuin's or thornmail - passives do not trigger on dodges
The Champ
-Jax
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United States37500 Posts
On July 20 2011 21:33 locodoco wrote:
i use dodge seals with flat armor quints on mummy :3
dodge bit iffy on mumu since his E works based on getting hit
Dan Dinh does the same on his Amumu. Seems a little counter-intuitive with Tantrum but those Dodge Seals are mainly for late game.
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On July 20 2011 12:56 Kenpachi wrote:
for AP TF, when getting blue runes, should i get CD or AP runes?
also what are the best quints for AP TF?
my red and yellow would be mpen and mana regen cause the other ones dont really benefit me
Honestly either would work since having that cdr early helps you spam pickacard. While having the AP/lvl would benefit your mid-late game. For Quints there's quite a few choices, I usually run flat HP or flat AP.
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On July 20 2011 05:32 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 04:41 Seuss wrote:
Health per Level Seals technically help during laning, but not by much. Even if you're mostly taking magic damage a single auto attack can put Armor Seals ahead. Not quite. Assuming you're bringing your armor from 0 to 13 (idealization), you reduce physical damage by 12%, so that 60 damage autoattack becomes 52. HP per level can keep up better and better as the laning phase goes on, granting an additional 10HP per level, and unless you have absolutely no regen and are getting crushed at level 1 by autoattacks (your own fault), you really don't lose a whole lot from favoring HP/level.
Regen actually favors Armor/Resist over Health, as the former two extend Regen's effectiveness.
For instance, Akali has 7.25 (+0.65/lvl) health regen base. Assuming she levels roughly once a minute in the first 5 minutes, she'll regenerate 552 health in that time. In the "ideal" case Armor boosts that regen to an effective 624, or 72 more health. That's more than Health per Level yields.
In the same time period Akali may also use 1-3 potions, heal over 500 health from Spell Vamp, and level to the point where her maximum health is 935. For Health per Level to be equal to Armor during the laning period the difference between the "ideal" and reality must be an 85% reduction in effectiveness without taking into account that, if I recall correctly, Health per Level runes are subject to the mechanic which reduces health restore on level when below maximum health.
Health per Level runes are definitively a choice made to counter burst kills and/or to add late game survivability. They're not completely ineffective early, but they require their own idealized scenarios to really compare to Armor.
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Certainly I never said HP/level could compete with armor in the event where you're constantly being pressured by autoattacks for an extended period of time. Such scenario happens mostly in the event of melee solo vs ranged DPS.
In a caster vs caster or even caster vs ranged DPS scenario, it's harder for me to accept that the armor helps in any relevant amount enough to drop the HP.
In a ranged DPS vs ranged DPS scenario, it's fairly even as neither side really has enough ground to sustain long-term aggression without getting F'd in the A by the lane pushing itself. Unless of course you're going up against something like ashe with 21-defense masteries and mass potions, you're going to be okay without the armor yellows and don't concede consecutive free hits.
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just worth noting that Flat AD Quints vs. ArPen Quints is more in favor of AD than Flat AD Marks vs. ArPen Marks. If you wanna run a mix of the stats, prioritize AD on Quints and ArPen on Marks.
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EPT
